Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[stattlich1]

For me, having worked in public school for 20 years, I could easily see a group of kids talking about an upcoming day off, maybe even looking forward at the weather forecast, knowing it would be nice, planning a meetup at the bridge, just to pal around.

Then that conversation spreads, kids talking to parents, sharing on social media, being overheard by who knows who.

I can personally attest to the tentacles of social media reaching far and wide.

These girls didn't have to have a direct conversation with anyone. IMO, they likely didn't. But I do believe there could be an extensive population of people who may have known of their intentions to be at the bridge that day. A population unknown to LE.

As far as the area around the bridge, and under the bridge, and down along the creek, I bet many a beer have been consumed, and many a joint smoked, all around there, by that population of local teens inclined to do so.

I don't think BG escaped via that driveway, or by virtue of going back across the bridge from the direction he came. Too risky.

MOO, he left via the way he came in, the cemetery. The only other potential escape that would provide cover would be using the woods to do so. Via the old railroad bed beyond the bridge, or up and along the woodline near the vacant home (the snowbird's place) and out to the driveway from there, or even to bridge creek, and out to Hoosier Highway to be picked up there.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Another thing I thought was interesting on the HLN show last night was when they were talking about the trails themselves. So much conversation on WS and elsewhere about how nobody knew about the trails so the killer must be local. Even Kelsi I think made comments like that.
But on the show, the head of the Delphi Chamber of Commerce said that once the trails opened Delphi became a “destination”(her word). That before the murders they averaged at least one person a week stopping by for trail maps, sometimes more. This seems to to contradict the thought that the trails were only known to locals.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Inside the Mind of a Stalker
The predator. This is about sex gratification, control, and violence. The stalker doesn't necessarily know the victim. The victim may not know they are being stalked. But a predator plans their attack, rehearses it, has lots of sexual fantasies about it.


.... in case, BG is a stalker.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I do remember either Kelsie or Becky Patty saying that LE had looked at all the electronic gadgets the girls had and had told them they had found nothing that related to the case. LE themselves, I don’t remember.

I don't believe it, I will wait for trial.

 

[Charlot123]

Well, @Charlot123, I myself totally believe ^^^, that the killer is a "nerd", exceptionally well-read in the "art" of...murdering, and that he does indeed spend a LOT of time online (and that he did spend a lot of time online, prior to the murders). That he's been living in a "fantasy" world for a looong time, and that his parents/family/friends ALL know this about him (even if he's morphed into some kind of a "professional" life that doesn't involve any of the fantasy games).

@FromGermany is on to something here, IMO. Have no doubt that the FBI has sufficient nerdy types (brilliant; good at "connecting dots"), but... other LE? Not so sure (since the FBI gets agents from across the country, whereas local and state PDs tend to be local, or often regional).

But...is the FBI still "on" this case? {Shrug} What do we know? Nada, pretty much. That's what! (And I can see "why" those working the case would rather *not* reveal things -- much as *we* would all find it intriguing, and even perhaps "helpful", in our own minds; once they were to reveal even one or two teeny, tiny pieces of info. -- e. g., things left at the CS, how the girls' lives were taken, perhaps any items taken by the killer as "souvenirs" [multiple killers have done this weird "memorializing" of their crime ], then... I think all kinds of freak types who crave public attention would instantly jump into the media, and...that would be that! So much for trying to keep the integrity of the investigation.)

Of course, there are those who believe that this killer is some homeless guy, clueless about life... Well... (all JMOO of course) it would seem that, based on the killer's meticulous approach to certain aspects of the crime, he did his best to ensure that he wouldn't be identified.

Now give me just a minute ("as Libby would say", so said her grandma Becky; love that!): IF (giant "if" here) the killer were from far, far away, and no where *near* Delphi, then... why would he bother to conceal most of his face? If OTOH he *were* from Delphi/very nearby, then... why would he be sure to conceal his face? (Especially since those from Delphi already knew that the MHB web cam/any trail cams were non-existent, non-functioning, or both.)

Noop! He definitely wasn't counting on Libby to pull out her phone to record him! (So like Libby to take a picture, since she loved photography...)

Nevertheless... his voice! Although Libby did awesomely at getting that video clip of him, IMO the audio "electrons" are/were sufficiently "scrambled" (whether due to Libby's phone having fallen into water and gotten wet, the battery's having died, etc.) so that... "ordinary" citizens (like WS-ers) aren't truly able to discern what his "real" voice sounds like (*could* that, uh, "masking" of the killer's voice be a part of LE's MO to keep that part of the killer's identity secret? Have no idea). Still mulling over the thought of how terrifying it may have been for the girls to see who they initially thought was a random stranger, then (only too late) to realize by his voice that they did, indeed, know exactly who he was... (Yes, I'm "MOO-ing" over here, since this is entirely speculative.)
--
As for whether the killer was "random"? {Deep sigh} Having a hard time believing that he was *totally* unknown to the girls. Leaning toward there being some previous connection -- though who *knows* what that connection was? (Of course this theory is all contingent upon the killer's being from Delphi/nearby environs.) The girls themselves were connected (or so I think) to all kinds of people/places throughout town -- school, church, sports, music, and...no doubt they both had friends they mostly chatted with online (as do many middle and h.s. students these days).
--
How I wish that the killer had just stuck to his fantasy life and games online. That he had just left it all at his computer keyboard. But no: He was so "into" his gaming, and fantastical world and imaginations (of darker, creepier things) that he *had* to try it out IRL for himself. Tend to think that this killer is *very* smart ("book smart"), with lots of "issues", and, as other posters have stated here, has been given a lifetime "pass" or "wild card" by his family, friends, and, perhaps, even by some of his former teachers. (All JMOO.)

Praying for that "one piece of evidence" to come forward for LE -- today would be a *great* day!

To add - he is probably well-read and might "despise" people living around him for their lack of knowledge. It doesn't show because he masks well, but he definitely feels himself above the mainstream. He might form attachments (it is somewhat lonely out there), but he easily gets angry, too. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Inside the Mind of a Stalker
The predator. This is about sex gratification, control, and violence. The stalker doesn't necessarily know the victim. The victim may not know they are being stalked. But a predator plans their attack, rehearses it, has lots of sexual fantasies about it.


.... in case, BG is a stalker.

I wonder if LE are playing the same "game" Janelle Matthew's LE played recently.

Accidental vs knowing victims: clues
SK vs a certain reason, so, only masking for SK: clues
Local or semi-local vs "from faraway" : clues

20 or 40: clues

One or a group: clues

Depending on what they have, they might get a better idea of who he really is

 

[minazoe]

I have always thought of BG as a total geek..I still think he had a camera rig, I think the white things are the cables to the camera. I think of him as a 2 way radio geek, police scanner stuff and recording and videotaping his exploits.

this is mOO...but I think he recorded his crimes...he also looks like the type that would impersonate different characters...

wonder if he ever requested a map? mOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Another thing I thought was interesting on the HLN show last night was when they were talking about the trails themselves. So much conversation on WS and elsewhere about how nobody knew about the trails so the killer must be local. Even Kelsi I think made comments like that.
But on the show, the head of the Delphi Chamber of Commerce said that once the trails opened Delphi became a “destination”(her word). That before the murders they averaged at least one person a week stopping by for trail maps, sometimes more. This seems to to contradict the thought that the trails were only known to locals.

Sometimes I had been angry about the statements, there hadn't been any other visitors to the MHB area, when on the other hand it is known, that circa 50 people populated the area that day. What's the point with the different reportings? Why can't that finally be clarified?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't believe it, I will wait for trial.

I don’t know if it’s true either, it’s just what they said.
I would happily be wrong about everything in this case if we could just get an arrest and a trial.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

RSBM
Not sure I agree with your last comment, in my observation ex wives and girlfriends are not so loyal. If a guy is a murderous creep, the former wife/girlfriend usually knows that better than anyone and has no hesitation to tell people. She doesn't see it as a personal failing to have been involved, once the relationship is over.

In a nearby case I followed back in 2008, of a 14 year old girl murdered in a park, the former wife told police the suspect had a hidden dark side, and that he'd stalked a woman who looked similar to the victim.

Btw, just for comparison, that case was solved because a couple of witnesses thought they recognized the man, a local, as having been in the park that afternoon. Which raises the issue, a perp from Delphi would run the risk of being recognized before or after the murders.

You have a great memory. MOO.

 

[K9Enzo]

The only reason I don't think the suspect is a tech savvy geek, is leaving one of the girls cell phones behind. A tech savvy person would most likely know the data and location that can be stored on a phone is a huge risk being left behind. Powering it down and destroying it, seems like a better choice. The suspect didn't do that here. Also, most young people seem to have an awareness of this in general, especially location services.

Assuming they do have DNA of the suspect. This person does not appear to be in any criminal databases already. That's telling. Probably never in the military. I'm assuming they would have had a warrant to check the dna in those databases. LE most likely ran it through whatever was available to them. Zilch.

This person really has to keep their nose clean, from now until they die. One misstep.... Think of the jobs you would not even risk applying for because you would be terrified of a finger print requirement even. Your world just shrunk drastically, hence probably putting you into the shadows even more.

IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

 

[Andreee]

If you need to explain to LE/FBI, why you are sure, BG could be a certain person from your (ex) environment, LE would draw conclusions and your anonymity would be gone, I believe. Very tricky.

yes, let's just HOPE that SOMEONE comes forth to expose this monster! And before he dies without being held accountable!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The only reason I don't think the suspect is a tech savvy geek, is leaving one of the girls cell phones behind. A tech savvy person would most likely know the data and location that can be stored on a phone is a huge risk being left behind. Powering it down and destroying it, seems like a better choice. The suspect didn't do that here. Also, most young people seem to have an awareness of this in general, especially location services.

Assuming they do have DNA of the suspect. This person does not appear to be in any criminal databases already. That's telling. Probably never in the military. I'm assuming they would have had a warrant to check the dna in those databases. LE most likely ran it through whatever was available to them. Zilch.

This person really has to keep their nose clean, from now until they die. One misstep.... Think of the jobs you would not even risk applying for because you would be terrified of a finger print requirement even. Your world just shrunk drastically, hence probably putting you into the shadows even more.

IMO

He wasn't caught during 4 long years, so he did all things well, even in letting Libby's phone behind. So he seems to have an idea of communication techniques and tracking. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

yes, let's just HOPE that SOMEONE comes forth to expose this monster! And before he dies without being held accountable!

Absolutely!! I hope so! Before Covid-19 or the different mutants are taking him.

 

[goldiegirl]

I still think that somehow he already knew they would be there alone. It just doesn't make sense to me that he'd be hiding out in the bushes hoping for young girls to come by. Another thing that stands out to me is the way he immediately began talking to them/ordering them around. What if their parents had been around the corner? If not through social media contact I still think there was a way that he figured out they'd be there.

ETA: Snapchat messages automatically delete themselves. LE may not have seen any suspicious phone activity, but the profile may have looked like a teenage boy. They wouldn't have seen any messages.

And just because the trip was represented to be spontaneous doesn't mean it really was. Teens are crafty. Or they could have made casual mention of it to someone in a chat, even if they didn't intend to meet them there. Teens in my family often "sponganeously" want to go to McDonalds or Walmart, only to end up meeting up with all kinds of friends.

 

[ElementalLaura]

The Gray Hughes video above is approved for posting. Thanks for asking!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

The BG would have known about these shortcomings, if he did his analysis of all the conditions, in which he wanted to work on his next crime. Maybe, he even planned to disturb the following investigation with an anonymous alarm call to LE, if needed at a certain point. IMO

Quoted bbm

Like a bomb threat being called into Indiana Packers on Feb 22, 2017? (the same day that 'Down the Hill' audio was released at the presser.)

 

[Yemelyan]

Anyone who watched the HLN show last night - did you catch the part where they said Libby’s phone eventually pinged back by the trail? Made it sound like the pings had left, then returned. It had me remembering back to 2017 when it was said that her phone was pinging all around town the night of 2/13.

Anyone recall that? I believe later it was said that it just meant the pings were hitting different towers, not that the location of the phone had ever left the trail area.

Sorry if I’m taking us down an old rabbit hole. It just caught my attention last night while watching.

This was the most interesting part of the episode for sure.

I wish we had clarity on what exactly they mean by "ping." Because that could either be the carrier deliberately sending a message out to the phone and receiving a location reply OR it could mean that the phone itself spontaneously announced its location to the network. People use this term both ways.

BP said that due to the recent phone re-set, they didn't have the capability to use "find my iphone" from any of their devices and when the family called the cell provider they initially refused to help with location services. In "Scene of the Crime" the family relates that they were told by an in-the-know relative to get the ISP involved as the ISP had more leverage to request that cell providers cooperate.

It's my understanding that if LE determines that things are urgent to find someone who could be in danger they can get cell providers to cooperate without a warrant, but the request has to come directly from LE. Seems like Abby and Libby's situation would fall under this, especially as the night went on.

I also remember from the early days of the investigation that it was clarified that Delphi only had two cell phone towers at the time of the murders and you could stand in one spot and your cell would sometimes ping off one tower and sometimes the other in a random fashion. And because there were only two towers, it was not possible to triangulate pings to determine location in that area.

To me there are at least two scenarios - either the 2:30 am ping was the last gasp of a phone sending out its final messages to the network before powering off (it seems difficult to believe that the battery would have lasted that long), or 2:30 am was the time the Carroll County Sheriff received location information from the cell provider after they finally successfully pinged the phone by LE request.

We know from their own words that everyone hoped the girls had just run away to a friend's house for the night so it must have been a shock to everybody to find out that the phone was still in the location of the bridge.

 

[Peppery]

I still think that somehow he already knew they would be there alone. It just doesn't make sense to me that he'd be hiding out in the bushes hoping for young girls to come by. Another thing that stands out to me is the way he immediately began talking to them/ordering them around. What if their parents had been around the corner? If not through social media contact I still think there was a way that he figured out they'd be there.

ETA: Snapchat messages automatically delete themselves. LE may not have seen any suspicious phone activity, but the profile may have looked like a teenage boy. They wouldn't have seen any messages.

LE has never said when he began talking to them.