Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[sunshineray]

Sounds like they weren’t getting pings (wet conditions, or weak signal from cell tower service), then they got a ping around 2:30 am. Which would make sense based on an occasional signal getting through as the phone lost power.

Am I understanding it correctly?

ETA for clarity: the show didn’t go down the ping rabbithole, that’s all me....

I heard and digested it this way. Not long after the search was called off for the night, at 2:30 am on the 14th, "one" of the girl's cell phones was pinging in the area of the Monon High Bridge. The Sheriff called the Fire Chief to ask for lighting to help find the phone. A few of the fireman and probably police also went back out there to try and find it with no luck.

This does now bring up the question did Libby purposely dropped the phone or lose it as she tried to get away?

Something else that caught my attention
was authorities called the crime scene a complicated one. Sounds like there was enough time for the killer to not only abduct and kill two victims but also to create a crime scene that was challenging to decipher.

Haven't watched Part 2 yet.

 

[TL4S]

Just to play a bit of devil's advocate, let's say the killer was there fishing that day, on the north side of the bridge by the creek. He sees the girls on the bridge and is somehow triggered. Grabs a filet knife, fishing line, whatever out of his tackle box, or he had something equivalent on him already (maybe it's a fishing vest underneath in all those layers), and climbs up to the bridge to cross after them. It's random. Maybe even he didn't fully know what he was going to do. Maybe a SA started on the south side of the creek and things went haywire.

I guess my point is there are a million scenarios that are possible, and of course he could have planned the attack or known the girls or been a serial killer parked watching for a victim, but there are also plausible scenarios that show a random act by a local creep. JMO

 

[janewall]

Or a cop........

Bingo. We're back into the realm of contemplating "upright citizens". Community pillars, teachers, youth group leaders, coaches, school staff. Tutors, mentors.

The proposal that the photo on Libby's phone shows BG wearing a mask/disguise also put the extremely uneasy thought in my head that maybe this isn't a "Bridge Guy" scenario at all. Maybe it's "Bridge Girl/Woman". I know what the audio seems to indicate – an adult male voice. But I'm fuzzy on whether that voice is supposed to belong to BG, or to "the killer". Or if LE considers them one and the same.

I stepped away from this case for multiple months, so maybe I've missed something that makes the above "Bridge Woman" scenario a complete dud. I'm just putting it out there in case it's a plausible angle that hasn't been explored yet. Feel free to debunk it entirely and mercilessly! As always, this post is purely speculation and MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Bingo. We're back into the realm of contemplating "upright citizens". Community pillars, teachers, youth group leaders, coaches, school staff. Tutors, mentors.

The proposal that the photo on Libby's phone shows BG wearing a mask/disguise also put the extremely uneasy thought in my head that maybe this isn't a "Bridge Guy" scenario at all. Maybe it's "Bridge Girl/Woman". I know what the audio seems to indicate – an adult male voice. But I'm fuzzy on whether that voice is supposed to belong to BG, or to "the killer". Or if LE considers them one and the same.

I stepped away from this case for multiple months, so maybe I've missed something that makes the above "Bridge Woman" scenario a complete dud. I'm just putting it out there in case it's a plausible angle that hasn't been explored yet. Feel free to debunk it entirely and mercilessly! As always, this post is purely speculation and MOO.

I was thinking how difficult it would be for a woman to deal with angry, enraged Libby, fighting for her life, and then i though, but what if the woman was in martial arts? There is one martial arts school in Delphi, then, several in Frankfort, Logansport and Kokomo. Yes, it is possible, but the woman had some training.

Also - if the CS, with signatures, etc, was staged to look like the doing of a SK, some women have more devious minds and can think very fast.

 

[Charlot123]

I’ve been here since 2018 but never posted. I’ve been following this case since it happened. There’s something like a little voice in my head and I wonder if anyone else has the same thought.

The voice on the video is a very relaxed voice. Very easy going. I feel like he might have known the girls. Were they videoing him him because they were afraid or because they knew him and it was fun? In my gut I think it’s possible and haven’t heard but wonder if all the teachers, coaches, maintenance workers etc in their school been looked at. They seem to think this man might be that person you’d never expect it to be. I can’t shake that feeling. JMHO

- I wonder if the bridge itself had ever been minimally restored? Maybe, even two planks replaced? Here is another profession that no one would notice, bridge repairman..


- I don’t think the girls knew him, nor specifically recognized the voice, but I wonder if he was after one girl? That he even said to the other one, “go home, I need to talk to your friend”?

Everyone praises the girls for not abandoning each other. Maybe one of them had a very good chance to escape. That indicates that he knew very little of the second girl, her character and personality.

To me, it is quite possible that:

- he was after one victim
- he was either unknown to both, or maybe known to the intended one, but he felt safe letting the other one go - so he is not super local
- this does not explain the motive, because maybe the victim merely resembled him someone (the girl that dumped him, or some girl who, he considered, bullied him in his high school times)


About the voice. I don’t hear anything “familiar” in it, except the accent and manner of speaking. But the reason people thought TL had similar voice, and DC has similar voice, is because of the locality, I think. He speaks like a local. That is it. Plus, recorded voice never sounds like the real one.

 

[JWSleuth]

So many amazing posts... for what it’s worth what if he pretended to be a ranger? Not sure what benefit it has but feel with the age of the girls, they would have abided to instructions from a stranger much more than an adult would m. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Quoted bbm

Like a bomb threat being called into Indiana Packers on Feb 22, 2017? (the same day that 'Down the Hill' audio was released at the presser.)

Exactly!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

... this offender tolerant of high risk.

^^ Not every man around the greater Delphi area, who looks like the sketch, is THIS type of a person. It has to be someone special, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

“They fought until the bitter end, we should do the same for them.”

I am very touched by this.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

some viewers of THE DTH show, WHO ACTUALLY VISITED THE AREA are angry cause the camera angle the show was using of the bridge.. to give a wrong impression to fit into the scripted version they presenting of events ( that the girls were trapped or somthin ) .. and this could be seen as a way of manipulation

I started that topic on Reddit and others agreed. HLN absolutely manipulated the perspective at the end of the bridge to fit their preferred theme, and not the reality of the matter. They had the camera one foot above the planks on the far left side of the bridge, aiming slightly across to the right. That perspective and that perspective alone makes the area beyond the bridge look cluttered by trees and all but impassable. After using that angle the narrator said (paraphrased), "Trees have overrun the area beyond the bridge...meaning the trail ends and you have to turn around."

HLN producers knew darn well that if they used a normal view from a cameraman standing up at the end of the bridge, the gaps between trees would be blatantly obvious and especially the big open yard at left, beginning only about 50 yards beyond the bridge. This is the same type of disgusting tactic that Greeno often used early in the case, refusing to show normal angles in his videos while instead determined to jostle everything around and with extreme close ups to make everything seem as scary as possible.

Last year during "Down the Hill" podcast, HLN initially said the girls were trapped at the end of the bridge. Once evidence surfaced the other way they hastily and sloppily edited the finished product. But they still want to leave that impression. Hence the slanted portrayal. For whatever reason everyone seems to think it is a slap at Abby and Libby -- or diminish the hero aspect somewhat -- to matter of factly report that they could have run away into open yards within 10 seconds or less, but decided not to.

Unfortunately the false impression was ingrained early in the case that Libby was scared of Bridge Guy, and that's why she filmed him. Once that has entered the mindset it apparently seems contradictory to turn around and aim the camera at those nearby open yards, ones that were in plain sight in February 2017, as evidenced by Julie Melvin's video three weeks after the murders. When given a choice of protecting the false impression or correctly pointing out that the logical decision was not to dash away, HLN and virtually everyone else desperately clutch the false impression. And that false impression will never be dented until we see the full actual video...with Bridge Guy occupying perhaps 10% of the screen. An aside.

Ironically, it would actually be extremely valuable to film the entirety of the bridge crossing from one foot above the planks. I have emphasized that on many sites. It would remove the treacherous focus and demonstrate that there is plenty of room for a human being, on slightly uneven planks that are troubled and gapped at the outset then considerably more normal and tame near the end.

 

[Betty P]

so, now I am thinking this super arrogant individual has literally given them something that
leads them to believe he has access to pressers, he's in an out of their orbit, he has access somehow and can be in the community and is one of a group.

then it's really a game isn't it? it's not just what he did, it's where and how.

he has communicated something.

so could it be he is one of upstanding citizen variety, and not just the shut-in grub worm I
have pictured him as.

hmmm...could be huh. mOO

That was the impression they gave years ago at their lazt press conference, JMO. The have DNA and fingerprints but haven't determined who they belong to.

It almost sounds like the killer has intimidated them. If they're waiting for him to give up and turn himself in, that's not going to happen. If they think they can control the situation by following but not arresting him, that's risky. If the town is made up of people who have a belief system that prevents them from accepting the guilt of this person when evidence is presented at trial, it sounds like they've created their own unique version of hell on earth.

Do they need to have another agency take over the case, make arrests and try the case in another jurisdiction?

 

[KenzieK]

This case is so heartbreaking...and frustrating. It's been three years and LE doesn't seem to have made ANY progress at all. I lost faith in them a long time ago. Maybe it's time they release more info about the crime and additional video/audio (assuming they have any; I'm starting to think they don't have anything else and just want the killer to believe there's more).

Does anyone know if the girls' family members were given any additional info that's not been publicly released (such as method used and whether there was a sexual assault etc.)?

 

[Skully]

I don't have HLN so not able to watch the two part series. Anything really new that we didn't know before? TIA

 

[Tealgrove]

A whole set of new eyes are needed. A new team. Look at the evidence cold with no prior prepping by LE previously involved.

I think the answers are there amongst the evidence, tips etc.

I wonder if they have already done this?

MOO

 

[minazoe]

okay, thoughts.

They think the killer escaped through the woods.

feeling is that this person has communicated things , judging by the early presser.

4 days to process the CS

He is diabolical killer and left an ornate crime scene...that could have sent some kind of message or taunt...some kind of symbol or other reference.

Officer L was questioned due to people calling in things about him.

Other Officers were questioned.

How many officer's were questioned? did he say 4? have all officers been fingerprinted ? offered DNA?

Are there any PO's out there who worked at the Delphi PD, and left?

mOO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Did this happen? Wow. I never knew that.
Do you have more information about it?

Thanks to @Yemelyan for posting the article.

The person who called in the bomb threat was never caught.
There had been another bomb threat called into IP in 2016, but that person was caught.

Could be that someone was trying to 'help' direct LE to IP for investigation or they were throwing a 'red herring' into the mix.... or someone was really trying hard to distract LE from following up on leads from the 'down the hill' presser, which took place prior to the bomb threat that day.

Either way, it could have put a giant strain on police resources, having both of those events occur on the same day, hours apart.

LE publicly stated afterwards that the bomb threat was unconnected to Abby and Libby's case.

I have my doubts.

All JMO

 

[sandy_80]

they don't think anyone saw him come of leave ?
where did the sketches came from then..the two sets of witnesses have been disregarded ?

or is this admitting that they wrecked the case with these two ..they give you this vibe that we know nothing, and we totally messed up.. which was already obvious .

 

[stattlich1]

so, now I am thinking this super arrogant individual has literally given them something that
leads them to believe he has access to pressers, he's in an out of their orbit, he has access somehow and can be in the community and is one of a group.

Yes, as I have pondered since early on, it could very well be one of their own. At minimum, if not LE directly, an offshoot, such as the judicial system, etc.

Knowledgeable about criminal investigation.
Versed in forensics
Studied in murder
Veteran of deception

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The HLN special was an eye opener for me and not in a good way. I might not have agreed with how LE was doing things sometimes but I respected them and trusted that they certainly knew more than I did about what was going on. Forget that. HLN laid it all on the table last night. All LE screw ups, head scratching decisions, bizarre change of directions. With never an explanation. NEVER. We’ve all lived through this a bit at a time over four years but to have it all laid out in front of us was shocking.
I have said it many times in the last four years...stop asking and begging for the public’s help and criticizing the type of tips coming in if you are not going to release any information. I truly believe LE in Indiana has messed this case up so bad that that is the reason they aren’t releasing any information. They don’t want us to know the depth of it. They don’t want us to know that their only hope of solving this is for someone to call them up and tell them who did it, because they screwed it up.
And stop saying, we can’t release anything because of the integrity of the investigation and the trial. There is no trial, there will be no trial if you don’t arrest somebody. There will be no arrest unless you release more information. Release it and let some independent investigators have at it.
My heart is breaking for the families. They came across as so strong but so helpless in the face of this incompetent investigation. They left us with the fact the girls fought to the end and we should too and we should. We need to fight to open up this case to the public and some new eyes. I hope it’s not too late.
Just my rant. Just my thoughts.

 

[Yemelyan]

Do they need to have another agency take over the case, make arrests and try the case in another jurisdiction?

What agency can take over? The Delphi PD, Carroll County Sheriff, and Indiana State Police are already participants in the investigation. The FBI is not permitted to take over a case unless specific federal statutes have been violated (such as the killing of a federal officer, or interstate trafficking of drugs), and the Delphi murders do not appear to have those factors or the FBI would be the lead investigating agency already. The FBI is allowed to provide support, which it has and continues to do for Delphi evidently.

But to address your actual question about jurisdiction, the 6th amendment of the US Constitution prohibits the indictment of a person or trial of a person outside of the state and district where the crime took place, as far as I know. When trial venues are moved (which doesn't happen very often) they don't move out of state, for example.