Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[minazoe]

do we know 100 percent for sure that the girls commented on the guy in the recording..that "there's that strange guy again" comment...is that a fact?

also if abby fought like hell, did bg leave there with injuries? could they have his blood?

I will say that I would have left my friend and ran like hell...of course I would try to find help. In my experience you go into a deep primal state, shock and fear pull you into a strange numbness...for me I could hear my grandmother who was a cop telling me if someone puts their hand over your mouth, you bite them as hard as you can. and I did that ( I could literally hear her voice talking to me ) ...it took my attacker off his game...he took out the blackjack and told me to shut my mouth or he was going to knock my teeth out...so I cold cocked him. his mistake was putting me in the front seat. big mistake thinking he could
wave that black jack while he was driving.

sadly these animals learn from their mistakes..

always run. always fight..don't let them take you anywhere. teach your children..no matter where you live..I wish they would have knocked his a&& off that bridge...thats the ending I wish was real, that they knocked him off that bridge and he died with his gun an all his equipment scattered around his busted ugly head.

mOO

 

[Spartygirl]

do we know 100 percent for sure that the girls commented on the guy in the recording..that "there's that strange guy again" comment...is that a fact?

also if abby fought like hell, did bg leave there with injuries? could they have his blood?

I will say that I would have left my friend and ran like hell...of course I would try to find help. In my experience you go into a deep primal state, shock and fear pull you into a strange numbness...for me I could hear my grandmother who was a cop telling me if someone puts their hand over your mouth, you bite them as hard as you can. and I did that ( I could literally hear her voice talking to me ) ...it took my attacker off his game...he took out the blackjack and told me to shut my mouth or he was going to knock my teeth out...so I cold cocked him. his mistake was putting me in the front seat. big mistake thinking he could
wave that black jack while he was driving.

sadly these animals learn from their mistakes..

always run. always fight..don't let them take you anywhere. teach your children..no matter where you live..I wish they would have knocked his a&& off that bridge...thats the ending I wish was real, that they knocked him off that bridge and he died with his gun an all his equipment scattered around his busted ugly head.

mOO

BBM
Too my knowledge, that was never said.
What was mentioned, is Abby asking Libby if the "creepy guy was still behind her"

 

[mom2chloe]

Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious - for anyone who still thinks the killings were targeted and not random after reading TL's answer in the Carroll County Comet last week - how do you reconcile his answer to the question "were the murders planned?" He said "Not planned. Victims of circumstance or opportunity."

To me, that would seem to rule anything targeted out. But I'm wondering, if you still believe it after reading his answer, why? Is he lying? Are we not correctly interpreting what he's saying? How does a targeted scenario still fit into that?

It’s all very confusing. Partly because they never touch on anything we may be interested in but also because they’re so limited in what they can reveal. IMO They answer nothing basically that would help us better understand also IMO

 

[Angels27]

Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious - for anyone who still thinks the killings were targeted and not random after reading TL's answer in the Carroll County Comet last week - how do you reconcile his answer to the question "were the murders planned?" He said "Not planned. Victims of circumstance or opportunity."

To me, that would seem to rule anything targeted out. But I'm wondering, if you still believe it after reading his answer, why? Is he lying? Are we not correctly interpreting what he's saying? How does a targeted scenario still fit into that?

One thing we do know, is that he clearly planned it. Whether it be that day or prior to that day. I mean he had a weapon with which to kill them right (knife or gun) and maybe a badge with which to lure them. Or maybe he just walks around with those at all times. Who knows. Also it seems as though at best, he was hunting for prey that day, if not straight up lying in wait for L and A. So I’d call that planned.

Is Indiana an open carry state?

 

[Angels27]

Thanks @steeltowngirl
Agree and just to add--- An unhinged man not only walks by ten other men, but several other young girls and still goes after Abby and Libby
I just cant get past that... that bothers me
He saw them, he bypassed other young people there that day and went after them.

Hi, where did you see that BG went past other young people? Sorry, but I missed that news I guess. Did he talk to them? I thought we weren’t sure if anyone else saw him that day.

 

[Angels27]

I wanted to bring some information here from the latest Carroll County Comet article (part 2 of the Q&A with Tobe Leazenby). This is not the full article. The full paywalled article can be found here: Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions | Carroll County Comet

The article was long and almost all questions were things that were previously answered or the information is available in other MSM sources or from the two approved podcasts about the case.

But, here are a few things I personally found interesting:

Question: What sorts of information do investigators continue to look at for this case? Answer: Several aspects specifically associated with February 13, 2017.

Question: Is familial linkage via DNA databases being used in this case? Answer: This is an evidentiary question and will not be answered.

Question: Do you know how the murderer was able to gain control of both girls at once? Answer: It is believed by manipulation and intimidation factors.

Yep. Fake cop / security guard type thing I bet. Thanks for this.

 

[Boxer]

Thanks @steeltowngirl
Agree and just to add--- An unhinged man not only walks by ten other men, but several other young girls and still goes after Abby and Libby
I just cant get past that... that bothers me
He saw them, he bypassed other young people there that day and went after them.

That's something I have never heard. Where was that?

 

[Angels27]

do we know 100 percent for sure that the girls commented on the guy in the recording..that "there's that strange guy again" comment...is that a fact?

also if abby fought like hell, did bg leave there with injuries? could they have his blood?

I will say that I would have left my friend and ran like hell...of course I would try to find help. In my experience you go into a deep primal state, shock and fear pull you into a strange numbness...for me I could hear my grandmother who was a cop telling me if someone puts their hand over your mouth, you bite them as hard as you can. and I did that ( I could literally hear her voice talking to me ) ...it took my attacker off his game...he took out the blackjack and told me to shut my mouth or he was going to knock my teeth out...so I cold cocked him. his mistake was putting me in the front seat. big mistake thinking he could
wave that black jack while he was driving.

sadly these animals learn from their mistakes..

always run. always fight..don't let them take you anywhere. teach your children..no matter where you live..I wish they would have knocked his a&& off that bridge...thats the ending I wish was real, that they knocked him off that bridge and he died with his gun an all his equipment scattered around his busted ugly head.

mOO

I’m so glad they found the girls so soon. Imagine if they had not, what evidence they would have lost.

 

[Angels27]

do we know 100 percent for sure that the girls commented on the guy in the recording..that "there's that strange guy again" comment...is that a fact?

also if abby fought like hell, did bg leave there with injuries? could they have his blood?

I will say that I would have left my friend and ran like hell...of course I would try to find help. In my experience you go into a deep primal state, shock and fear pull you into a strange numbness...for me I could hear my grandmother who was a cop telling me if someone puts their hand over your mouth, you bite them as hard as you can. and I did that ( I could literally hear her voice talking to me ) ...it took my attacker off his game...he took out the blackjack and told me to shut my mouth or he was going to knock my teeth out...so I cold cocked him. his mistake was putting me in the front seat. big mistake thinking he could
wave that black jack while he was driving.

sadly these animals learn from their mistakes..

always run. always fight..don't let them take you anywhere. teach your children..no matter where you live..I wish they would have knocked his a&& off that bridge...thats the ending I wish was real, that they knocked him off that bridge and he died with his gun an all his equipment scattered around his busted ugly head.

mOO

I thought the exact same thing M about them knocking him off bridge. I’m actually surprised they didn’t. Maybe fear. Maybe busy looking for a way to escape. Maybe human decency, thinking this guy might not be a creep and out to kill me. Maybe they had no time to think bc he cornered them.

You are brave and amazing for what you did. God bless you. You were clearly left here for a reason.

 

[Angels27]

It’s all very confusing. Partly because they never touch on anything we may be interested in but also because they’re so limited in what they can reveal. IMO They answer nothing basically that would help us better understand also IMO

The thing that would really help at this point is a clearer image of the perp. But apparently they either don’t have one or aren’t able to share it for some reason.

If Libby put the phone in her pocket or down by her side I’m surprised the guy didn’t notice it and I wonder what
else it showed. Maybe a close up of his shoes, face, hand, weapon, leg. What other words of his did it record. I saw somewhere that the recording was 10 mins long. If so, they must have gotten a lot. Does anyone know how long it was? I can’t see Libby holding onto the phone that long tho and the perp not seeing it.

 

[Yemelyan]

One thing we do know, is that he clearly planned it. Whether it be that day or prior to that day. I mean he had a weapon with which to kill them right (knife or gun) and maybe a badge with which to lure them. Or maybe he just walks around with those at all times. Who knows. Also it seems as though at best, he was hunting for prey that day, if not straight up lying in wait for L and A. So I’d call that planned.

Is Indiana an open carry state?

Oh, I agree he planned to commit a crime. Or let us say, he was prepared to commit one if the right opportunity arose IMO. Maybe one had to read the whole question in context - as it also dealt with another homicide and focused on the victims instead of the offender's preparation. But my feeling was that his answer was saying that Abby and Libby were not the pre-planned targets, that they were victims of circumstance - in that they just so happened to be there - or opportunity - out of everyone he saw, unfortunately he selected them.

 

[Yemelyan]

That's something I have never heard. Where was that?

In the HLN extra with the reporters of the DTH podcast, the reporters said that police told them that there is a teenage female witness who "spoke some words to him (the killer), and he spoke some words back to her. She was able to go in another direction and was unharmed." The video is linked up thread a few times.

 

[MistyWaters]

do we know 100 percent for sure that the girls commented on the guy in the recording..that "there's that strange guy again" comment...is that a fact?

No, I don’t think so. The topic of “strange” or “creepy” man or guy arises regularly about every two weeks or so and in all this time I haven’t noticed anyone linking a source to prove those words were directly spoken by one of the girls.

Anything that gets repeated often enough has a tendency to fall into the category of urban myth.

 

[Yemelyan]

The thing that would really help at this point is a clearer image of the perp. But apparently they either don’t have one or aren’t able to share it for some reason.

If Libby put the phone in her pocket or down by her side I’m surprised the guy didn’t notice it and I wonder what
else it showed. Maybe a close up of his shoes, face, hand, weapon, leg. What other words of his did it record. I saw somewhere that the recording was 10 mins long. If so, they must have gotten a lot. Does anyone know how long it was? I can’t see Libby holding onto the phone that long tho and the perp not seeing it.

LE haven't given information about exactly how long the audio is. Except TL says it is not nearly as long as most people assume.

 

[MistyWaters]

The thing that would really help at this point is a clearer image of the perp. But apparently they either don’t have one or aren’t able to share it for some reason.

If Libby put the phone in her pocket or down by her side I’m surprised the guy didn’t notice it and I wonder what
else it showed. Maybe a close up of his shoes, face, hand, weapon, leg. What other words of his did it record. I saw somewhere that the recording was 10 mins long. If so, they must have gotten a lot. Does anyone know how long it was? I can’t see Libby holding onto the phone that long tho and the perp not seeing it.

The video capture was taken from about 60 feet away and we know the man was looking downward. LE have said the clarity is as good as it gets - NASA and Disney both assisted in perfecting it as best as possible, apparently. If he’d been looking at Libby and noticed her videoing him, then his face would be visible in the video, right? Nobody said she was videoing him for 10 minutes however we do know there’s more audio than the four words because some of it - “girl talk” was shared with their families.

May I ask, when did you begin following this case? The media thread has a lot of background information which you might find helpful.

 

[Yemelyan]

@Angels27 When you were asking questions about genetic genealogy a few days ago, I linked an article about another Indiana cold case, which remained unsolved for 30 years and was finally resolved through genetic genealogy. Not sure if you read that article but you might find it informative as it has some parallels to the Delphi murders. In fact, in the early days of the case I wondered if they might be connected in some way because the perpetrator of the other case had very long intervals between his offenses. However, they aren't.

But - there are several interesting things about that other case that may have bearing on what happened in Delphi. It really causes you to question the accepted wisdom on what offenders do. One was that the offender only killed once (that LE can tell). He did exhibit signatures even in his very first murder (I know this has been a question of yours). He went on to de-escalate and commit other types of sexual offenses that didn't progress to murder. He was the stereotypical, local "weird and creepy" guy but he flew under the radar, even in the very small town where his post-murder offenses happened, because he kept to himself and worked the night shift. In the article I linked, it talked about how, after he confessed, he explained that he always wanted to murder another child, and had actually gone out many times looking to abduct, but was never able to find the right opportunity again. In 30 years - how lucky that he didn't find that unique set of circumstances where he could take another child, but think of the calculation that the criminal mind makes when trying to figure out what is a "good" opportunity and what is too risky.

 

[Angels27]

Even semis carrying meat and livestock? MOO at least they had transponders to check into weigh stations.

In any case, yes, a driver may be involved.
But to just to add a source of itinerant men, a work program in Lafayette ran a free shuttle from Lafayette for potential workers to visit the Indiana Packers plant.
Drug program men, felons, homeless were being brought to IP/Delphi daily.

Wow. This list has just gone to the top of my suspect list. 100%. Never heard this before. So many suspects. Were they taking them straight from the jails or from their homes or both? I wonder how closely they are monitored while at the plant. Could they sneak away for an hour or two?

 

[Angels27]

The video capture was taken from about 60 feet away and we know the man was looking downward. LE have said the clarity is as good as it gets - NASA and Disney both assisted in perfecting it as best as possible, apparently. If he’d been looking at Libby and noticed her videoing him, then his face would be visible in the video, right? Nobody said she was videoing him for 10 minutes however we do know there’s more audio than the four words because some of it - “girl talk” was shared with their families.

May I ask, when did you begin following this case? The media thread has a lot of background information which you might find helpful.

After the HLN special aired a week or two ago. I remembered hearing about it years ago, but started following it on here after that HLN show. Yes, I should check that out. Thanks.

 

[MistyWaters]

After the HLN special aired a week or two ago. I remembered hearing about it years ago, but starting following it on here after that HLN show. Yes, I should check that out. Thanks.

It contains a lot of hackground information. You might even notice important facts or details the rest of us have forgotten!

 

[Optics]

If there really were 50 people a day who visited that park and it was a nice day with no school why would this guy risk killing 2 people in broad daylight? Wouldn’t he worry someone would see him? That’s very risky. It really makes me wonder if he knew they were going to be there at that time and maybe scouted the area beforehand to see who else was around. He would have had to attempt to control as many of the variables of the situation as possible in order not to get caught. And four years later he still hasn’t.

I've never seen anything to say 50 people were there on the day the girls were killed Feb 13. I understood during their time, there were possibly less than 7 or 8 but in different locations on the trail.