Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[Charlot123]

The driveway is the entire road under the bridge. As the private drive bends around south along Bridge Creek it eventually becomes CR N625W at W252N.

When they say, “private drive”, does it mean that random cars can’t use it? Or are these driveways to the houses only?

It would be important for me, because the parcels of land in rural Indiana are definitely huge. If the killer was an outsider, where he parked makes a difference. So what denotes “private driveway”? Could he park on the road under the bridge?

 

[stattlich1]

When they say, “private drive”, does it mean that random cars can’t use it? Or are these driveways to the houses only?

It would be important for me, because the parcels of land in rural Indiana are definitely huge. If the killer was an outsider, where he parked makes a difference. So what denotes “private driveway”? Could he park on the road under the bridge?

If you look on google maps, using the overhead satellite view, you can see there's a N625W road. Interestingly, that road starts off W100N right by the Indiana Packers Corporation.

Anyway, that 625 road goes straight into the woods, becoming the 'private' drive. I've not been there. I'm speculating. But the word 'private' in this case means it is a private driveway that leads to the house where the folks were not home during the murders.

That driveway may be gated (can't tell because there is no street view), or there may be signs indicating private property, or private drive, or no trespassing, etc.

However, if the killer knew those folks weren't home during that time of year, and there was no locked gate, then yes, a person could likely drive back there without too much issue or concern.

There appear to be three homes right there at the 90 degree turn where 625 meets 252. Other than that, it appears to be a lane through the woods with no other homes than the one at the end, where the folks were out of town during the murders.

 

[OverTheRhine]

I know it's been said before, but that house has a very good view of a good portion of the area we can speculate as being at least part of the crime scene. Specifically in the winter months, when the trees are barren. The image of the view from this individuals house was actually posted by her when people were trespassing on her property. This always leads me to question whether he knew she was on vacation and that the house was unoccupied, or if it was just dumb luck.

 

[Peppery]

I wish that there was something new to discuss.
Since there isn't, I have 2 questions.

1. Why do you believe that the April 2019 Press conference was announced 4 days in advance?

2. When DC said that he believed that LE might have been "on to something" early in the investigation, what do you think he meant?

MOO JMO

The PC was the Monday following Easter. Could be they expected BG to be in town for a family gathering. I don’t want to bring up religion again but Easter is a time of new beginnings so it may have struck a nerve in BG and made him say something to someone. Also might have made him ask questions of a local that seemed unusual.

 

[MistyWaters]

If you look on google maps, using the overhead satellite view, you can see there's a N625W road. Interestingly, that road starts off W100N right by the Indiana Packers Corporation.

Anyway, that 625 road goes straight into the woods, becoming the 'private' drive. I've not been there. I'm speculating. But the word 'private' in this case means it is a private driveway that leads to the house where the folks were not home during the murders.

That driveway may be gated (can't tell because there is no street view), or there may be signs indicating private property, or private drive, or no trespassing, etc.

However, if the killer knew those folks weren't home during that time of year, and there was no locked gate, then yes, a person could likely drive back there without too much issue or concern.

There appear to be three homes right there at the 90 degree turn where 625 meets 252. Other than that, it appears to be a lane through the woods with no other homes than the one at the end, where the folks were out of town during the murders.

Early on various members here who claimed to be local posted that people used to park on the side of that road to fish on Deer Creek.

Although I can’t find the link at the moment iirc after the murders, the road was closed and gated with a Private Property sign posted to prevent public access. I’d assume the county would’ve had to turn title over of the entire road to the homeowners in order for the owners to gate it, if prior to that a portion of the road was still owned by the county.

If indeed the county owned a portion of the road up until then, the reason could’ve been to provide public access to the creek, which of course nobody owns.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

1. To give him a chance for participating in the PC? Maybe, they knew part of his schedule and business obligations? Maybe, he even announced, that he would be present and canceled at the last moment? When he canceled the participation, DC said anyway "BG might be in this room" as if he were there, for avoiding blowing up LE's secretly knowledge?
All question marks and speculation. MOO

So..I wonder, if the Press Conference was tailored to Spring Break for the colleges?

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Or to send the killer into panic mode for 4 days ( it has to be extremely stressful situation without knowing what police is about to say) which would be clearly visible to people around him and generate tips about certain behaviors. Moo

Interesting and really possible!
I never thought about this.

 

[Ravenmoon]

1. To give people notice since it was open to the public, and they were hopeful the killer would actually attend. 4 days allowed time for word to spread that some big announcement was coming, and would ensure that the perp would hear about it (if he was still somewhat local at that point or if he had ties to the area still, or was generally still following the case). 4 days. This allows time to make arrangements for work / travel. It also helps to rile up the killer if he hears about it, making any changes in his behavior / attitude / etc noticeable to those around him.

2. I think there was some evidence of interest or a theory about something at the scene at the beginning that would normally trace back to someone specific and police thought at the time that it would, and then it didn't for some reason. I think they have a decent idea of what the motive was, and what the sequence of events was at the beginning and end of the scene, but the middle is still a bit unclear perhaps? I'm basing my comment off comments made by LE in various news media, all of which has been referenced more specifically by myself and others up thread.

As to your answer to number 2, do you think it is possible that the search warrants that were served could be connected to his statement?

JMO MOO AMOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So..I wonder, if the Press Conference was tailored to Spring Break for the colleges?

AMOO JMO MOO

This is an interesting thought. I’ve sometimes thought too little attention was paid to how many college campuses were within easy range of Delphi, especially after the new young guy sketch was released.

 

[photographer4]

Whoever the MONSTER is that murdered Abby and Libby has gotten away with it for FOUR YEARS. I do not.. and have never thought that LE believed it would be so simple that he would just show up at that press conference and give himself away through acting nervous or anything of the sort. This MONSTER is cunning. I have no doubt whatsoever though that he was sitting at home watching it, safe from prying eyes. Or perhaps on a computer if there is anyone else in the home so he won't risk showing interest. I don't even think LE has anyone specifically on their radar at this time, though I hope that I am wrong.

It may not be that they were looking for signs of nervousness at the press conference. It could be far more interesting! People who are guilty have some interesting "tells" that tip the trained eye off to when they're lying or guilty. It could be that the guilty party is standing too still, gazing anywhere but at LE, pointing to themselves, licking their lips... have a look at this article for some other interesting examples: 10 Top Signs That Someone is Lying - How to Know

 

[photographer4]

As to your answer to number 2, do you think it is possible that the search warrants that were served could be connected to his statement?

JMO MOO AMOO

I'm not familiar enough with the search warrants that were issued to offer any comment of this, sorry.

 

[sunshineray]

I just read someone's recent opinion online, about many different aspects of the Delphi case. There's one point they made that had never really occured to me that I want to share.

The subject was LE knowing who the killer is and all the different things that pointed either to that or not.

Within ISP Carter's comments at the April 2019 were the words “may appear younger than their true age."

That cannot be something imparted by the person who gave the description for the new sketch.

How could anyone know that about a perfect stranger? They couldn't. That language only makes sense if the age of someone is known...example: So and so is how old? I thought they were much younger than that.

ISP Carter said other things in that April 2019 PC and acted in ways which made me think LE knows who the killer is. We're confident you probably told someone what you did, you want to know what we know are two others discussed in that same online forum I just read.

Saying, “May appear younger than their true age.", IMO, seems to be either a conformation of LE knowing "their" the killer's true age OR LE's roundabout and to me confusing way of accounting for, the not yet voiced (at the time ISPCarter is speaking it), problem people will have viewing Libby's photographic evidence and the new sketch (still covered up at that point) as the same person.

Thoughts?

 

[Boxer]

If you look on google maps, using the overhead satellite view, you can see there's a N625W road. Interestingly, that road starts off W100N right by the Indiana Packers Corporation.

Anyway, that 625 road goes straight into the woods, becoming the 'private' drive. I've not been there. I'm speculating. But the word 'private' in this case means it is a private driveway that leads to the house where the folks were not home during the murders.

That driveway may be gated (can't tell because there is no street view), or there may be signs indicating private property, or private drive, or no trespassing, etc.

However, if the killer knew those folks weren't home during that time of year, and there was no locked gate, then yes, a person could likely drive back there without too much issue or concern.

There appear to be three homes right there at the 90 degree turn where 625 meets 252. Other than that, it appears to be a lane through the woods with no other homes than the one at the end, where the folks were out of town during the murders.

MOO. The houses at the corner pose a serious risk of being seen and noted. No one should be driving on that 625 without having business at one of the 9 homes the two roads serve.
625 going north toward Deer Creek after the cross road of CR 200 has no outlet.
There is a
T-intersection with 252 which also has no outlet and only leads to 5 residences.
There are three houses at the corner of 625 and 252, then 625 continues down as long private drive to the house that overlooks Deer Creek, where the family was gone.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I just read someone's recent opinion online, about many different aspects of the Delphi case. There's one point they made that had never really occured to me that I want to share.

The subject was LE knowing who the killer is and all the different things that pointed either to that or not.

Within ISP Carter's comments at the April 2019 were the words “may appear younger than their true age."

That cannot be something imparted by the person who gave the description for the new sketch.

How could anyone know that about a perfect stranger? They couldn't. That language only makes sense if the age of someone is known...example: So and so is how old? I thought they were much younger than that.

ISP Carter said other things in that April 2019 PC and acted in ways which made me think LE knows who the killer is. We're confident you probably told someone what you did, you want to know what we know are two others discussed in that same online forum I just read.

Saying, “May appear younger than their true age.", IMO, seems to be either a conformation of LE knowing "their" the killer's true age OR LE's roundabout and to me confusing way of accounting for, the not yet voiced (at the time ISPCarter is speaking it), problem people will have viewing Libby's photographic evidence and the new sketch (still covered up at that point) as the same person.

Thoughts?

bbm
Thoughts? They know BG, but of course they can't admit. He made a mistake and therefore they know him. IMO
Now they need the last piece of the puzzle. If only somebody would call them and tell them the little bit, what they are still missing (name, location, time of day?)! Abby and Libby would deserve it so much. Other teens or women would deserve it as well, if BG wouldn't longer roam the streets, being dangerous now and then.

 

[MistyWaters]

I just read someone's recent opinion online, about many different aspects of the Delphi case. There's one point they made that had never really occured to me that I want to share.

The subject was LE knowing who the killer is and all the different things that pointed either to that or not.

Within ISP Carter's comments at the April 2019 were the words “may appear younger than their true age."

That cannot be something imparted by the person who gave the description for the new sketch.

How could anyone know that about a perfect stranger? They couldn't. That language only makes sense if the age of someone is known...example: So and so is how old? I thought they were much younger than that.

ISP Carter said other things in that April 2019 PC and acted in ways which made me think LE knows who the killer is. We're confident you probably told someone what you did, you want to know what we know are two others discussed in that same online forum I just read.

Saying, “May appear younger than their true age.", IMO, seems to be either a conformation of LE knowing "their" the killer's true age OR LE's roundabout and to me confusing way of accounting for, the not yet voiced (at the time ISPCarter is speaking it), problem people will have viewing Libby's photographic evidence and the new sketch (still covered up at that point) as the same person.

Thoughts?

The first suspect was described as in his 40s to 50s, what the focus was on for almost two years. Even if the witness involved in the 2nd sketch thought the suspect was younger, it’d probably be prudent for LE to announce a possible age range of 18 to 40 rather than, say 18 to 30, leaving the insinuation the suspect couldn’t possibly be in his 30s.

We know sketches are not photographs so as long as LE gets the right tip leading to the identity of the killer, I think his age is less insignificant.

Nothing indicates LE “know” who the killer is because this case is still unsolved with no arrest, unfortunately. JMO

 

[Diddian]

So..I wonder, if the Press Conference was tailored to Spring Break for the colleges?

AMOO JMO MOO

Purdue University, Spring Vacation was March 11-16, 2019. Classes for the second semester ended April 27 and final exams started April 29 and ended May 4, 2019.

2018-2019 Academic Calendar - Office of the Registrar - Purdue University


Indiana University, Bloomington Spring Break was March 25-29, 2019. Classes for spring quarter started April 1 and ended May 3 and final exams were May 6-10, 2019.

Academic Calendars

I assume any satellite campuses would use the same academic calendar.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It may not be that they were looking for signs of nervousness at the press conference. It could be far more interesting! People who are guilty have some interesting "tells" that tip the trained eye off to when they're lying or guilty. It could be that the guilty party is standing too still, gazing anywhere but at LE, pointing to themselves, licking their lips... have a look at this article for some other interesting examples: 10 Top Signs That Someone is Lying - How to Know

Because I think, the killer is smart and experienced in all things around crime, he would have avoided to visit. Maybe, he said, he would visit, but he had a nice and believable excuse, to do not at the very last moment. I imagine, BG knows all the studies and also your link as one of several hundred. IMO

 

[Peppery]

I just read someone's recent opinion online, about many different aspects of the Delphi case. There's one point they made that had never really occured to me that I want to share.

The subject was LE knowing who the killer is and all the different things that pointed either to that or not.

Within ISP Carter's comments at the April 2019 were the words “may appear younger than their true age."

That cannot be something imparted by the person who gave the description for the new sketch.

How could anyone know that about a perfect stranger? They couldn't. That language only makes sense if the age of someone is known...example: So and so is how old? I thought they were much younger than that.

ISP Carter said other things in that April 2019 PC and acted in ways which made me think LE knows who the killer is. We're confident you probably told someone what you did, you want to know what we know are two others discussed in that same online forum I just read.

Saying, “May appear younger than their true age.", IMO, seems to be either a conformation of LE knowing "their" the killer's true age OR LE's roundabout and to me confusing way of accounting for, the not yet voiced (at the time ISPCarter is speaking it), problem people will have viewing Libby's photographic evidence and the new sketch (still covered up at that point) as the same person.

Thoughts?

This is an interesting thought.

My assumption is that the teen girl who claimed in DTH to have a conversation with BG that day was not able to closely guess his age. I have teens around A&L’s age and they can’t tell the difference between a 25 year old and a 65 year old. They’re both just “old” to kids. I think some of the other witnesses were older than teenage and had a more accurate estimate of his age for LE. For example the teen witness said he was old, like 50ish. And the adult witnesses put him around 20ish. Pair that with the video that looks like an older man in one frame and a younger man in another and there’s a lot of conflicting info about his age.

 

[Ozoner]

I just read someone's recent opinion online, about many different aspects of the Delphi case. There's one point they made that had never really occured to me that I want to share.

The subject was LE knowing who the killer is and all the different things that pointed either to that or not.

Within ISP Carter's comments at the April 2019 were the words “may appear younger than their true age."

That cannot be something imparted by the person who gave the description for the new sketch.

How could anyone know that about a perfect stranger? They couldn't. That language only makes sense if the age of someone is known...example: So and so is how old? I thought they were much younger than that.

ISP Carter said other things in that April 2019 PC and acted in ways which made me think LE knows who the killer is. We're confident you probably told someone what you did, you want to know what we know are two others discussed in that same online forum I just read.

Saying, “May appear younger than their true age.", IMO, seems to be either a conformation of LE knowing "their" the killer's true age OR LE's roundabout and to me confusing way of accounting for, the not yet voiced (at the time ISPCarter is speaking it), problem people will have viewing Libby's photographic evidence and the new sketch (still covered up at that point) as the same person.

Thoughts?

They don't know who the killer is.

The things they were saying about him were straight out of the FBI profile (in addition to the physical description, which came from a witness).

 

[photographer4]

This is an interesting thought.

My assumption is that the teen girl who claimed in DTH to have a conversation with BG that day was not able to closely guess his age. I have teens around A&L’s age and they can’t tell the difference between a 25 year old and a 65 year old. They’re both just “old” to kids. I think some of the other witnesses were older than teenage and had a more accurate estimate of his age for LE. For example the teen witness said he was old, like 50ish. And the adult witnesses put him around 20ish. Pair that with the video that looks like an older man in one frame and a younger man in another and there’s a lot of conflicting info about his age.

OR: LE could now be saying he may appear older than his true age to encourage younger people who may have seen him on the trails that day to come forward. If he was 45, but may have been witnessed by kids as young as Abby and Libby, he may have been something like "20 ish" in their eyes. Its possible he was seen by others, and they just never thought much of it due to the older looking POI in the original sketch.