Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[minazoe]

the car is unaccounted for , that has to be very frustrating. mOO

 

[Lavender Moon]

BTW, the real monster (a child predator who got into newspapers) with whom i once used to work was absolutely standing out, and in a positive way. Handsome, suave, liked music and shared some of my hobbies. He had great reputation. Till that newspaper article and the scandal. He was not a killer, but a molester. But again, everyone’s first reaction was, “no way, such a nice guy!”

I wish I had a dollar for every "nice guy" I've ever heard of.

 

[MollyDDD]

I so appreciate your taking the time to really dissect, if you will, what the author actually means by the "monster". Your examples of BTK, etc. Whoever he is is hiding in plain sight. I wonder how other mysteries are solved with way LESS evidence and cases like Delphi have way MORE evidence like the photos and video of the killer but are not easily solved.

Ever since LE replaced the first photo with the second one, I’ve lost faith in just who we’re looking for. The first sketch, IMO resembles JBC or GK, especially when compared to the photo found on Libby’s cellphone, but after they posted the second sketch, I don’t know what to think.

 

[MollyDDD]

I'm surprised more isn't made of the demeanour of the speaker at the second press conference. To what extent is he acting/performing and to what extent are his emotions real? By acting I mean to get a response from someone who as he says may be in the room OR, being under pressure, needing to show who distraught he is by the murders. Or he could be on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I am in Canada and have never seen someone in charge of a homicide investigation come even close to being this broken down. I am wondering what it means.

I assume police had cameras on the audience during the press conference. Do we know that for sure? So for example when he references The Shack or suddenly addresses killer cameras could gauge the response of the killer.

Monster is such cliche just as crime scenes are always grizzly. It is not just information that they are withholding that is the problem it is also what they are not saying things like there are signatures and hints of special horror at the crime scene it just sets everyone's imagination racing and I can't see how it helps.

Can I ask is the following correct: are their large holes in the knees of the jeans of BG and is he almost certainly carrying something large a flat object (like a tablet?) in the right side under his jeans? Or not?

I agree with what you said about the speaker at the second press conference, very disturbing indeed. I assume everyone there was given a lie detector test?

 

[MollyDDD]

BTW, the real monster (a child predator who got into newspapers) with whom i once used to work was absolutely standing out, and in a positive way. Handsome, suave, liked music and shared some of my hobbies. He had great reputation. Till that newspaper article and the scandal. He was not a killer, but a molester. But again, everyone’s first reaction was, “no way, such a nice guy!”

It’s always the ones you least suspect. IMO

 

[Charlot123]

I have a question. Does anyone remember Gray Hughes’ YouTube video where he bought some satellite photos of the area? There was the highway, some van, or vans.

Suddenly I thought, what if @JnRyan’s idea about botched abduction is right, but the vehicle was not a car, but a van with two vertical doors in the back?

Such vans are more convenient; no one is seen in the back, and also, sometimes they are less scary than a car. Depending on how the interior is decorated.

Can anyone guide me to GH’s video? Maybe someone remembers its name? It is the one where he paid money for the satellite image.

I hope it is not TOS violation as GH is acceptable source.

 

[sunshineray]

I just can't fathom the thought of a killer grabbing two victims, marching them to a kill site and them getting away as fast as he could. Why not just kill them on the bridge and be done with it? Or kill one and take the other one?

I do think he was trying to corral them to his vehicle where he could carry them away but he lost control when the girls made a break for it and had to change his plans.

I think he had a lair set up. I also think he thought he had more time. Abby's Mom confirmed that there were 50+ people on and around the trails that day. It amazes me the killer(s?) even decided to continue with their plans.

With no leaves on the trees sounds carry better...and over water. We know CE and friend(s?) crossed over bridge after the girls, others were hiking the trails, then Libby's father and grandmother are calling her cell. I'm thinking killer(s?) got spooked. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think you can accomplish quite a lot with a couple of zip ties and a gun...fit , not fit..we just don't know what went down..but..my candidate turned his Facebook
to private only the very next day so we cant really see if he had facial contusions, scratches, bruises, gouges etc..I wonder how the police get access to that? would they need a court order to force Meta/Facebook to release the contents..or did they already automatically have that from his current conviction?

any camera could be used..and even film. mOO

minazoe, I'm just curious, if you feel like sharing. Was your "candidate" a searcher?

 

[sunshineray]

So I heard an interesting spin on who we are looking at as a poi. I'm going to quote "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one." Let me know what you think.

Sounds like the person speaking the quote already knows who the person being deceived is...JMO

 

[minazoe]

minazoe, I'm just curious, if you feel like sharing. Was your "candidate" a searcher?

We don't really know if my candidate was a searcher or not..JBC is always my number one suspect until LE tells us they no longer are interested in him. :0). mOO

 

[AC4RD]

... think he thought he had more time. Abby's Mom confirmed that there were 50+ people on and around the trails that day. It amazes me the killer(s?) even decided to continue with their plans.

Sunshine, this is one of the many questions I've wanted to know the answer to: how many people were on the trails before the girls were declared missing, and who were they? I've never seen an official answer to "how many." I'd also really like to know how many people were in the groups of searchers--I've seen 500, but that's another piece of data that isn't officially confirmed anywhere I can find it.

I've wondered about the risk from other people on the trails; many people assume BG had scouted the territory. But if I were doing something so monstrous, something that would certainly land me on Death Row if caught, I'd be very concerned about proceeding, if there were that many people around. Your "amazes me ... continue with plans" comment sums that up nicely. The idea that BG had a prepared spot sounds like it might well be true. If it is, then some of the rumors about "staging the scene" might have some truth to them.

 

[TTF14]

Sunshine, this is one of the many questions I've wanted to know the answer to: how many people were on the trails before the girls were declared missing, and who were they? I've never seen an official answer to "how many." I'd also really like to know how many people were in the groups of searchers--I've seen 500, but that's another piece of data that isn't officially confirmed anywhere I can find it.

I've wondered about the risk from other people on the trails; many people assume BG had scouted the territory. But if I were doing something so monstrous, something that would certainly land me on Death Row if caught, I'd be very concerned about proceeding, if there were that many people around. Your "amazes me ... continue with plans" comment sums that up nicely. The idea that BG had a prepared spot sounds like it might well be true. If it is, then some of the rumors about "staging the scene" might have some truth to them.

Great post. I also find it odd that we've never heard from anyone who saw the girls at the trails that day.

 

[JnRyan]

BTW, the real monster (a child predator who got into newspapers) with whom i once used to work was absolutely standing out, and in a positive way. Handsome, suave, liked music and shared some of my hobbies. He had great reputation. Till that newspaper article and the scandal. He was not a killer, but a molester. But again, everyone’s first reaction was, “no way, such a nice guy!”

We had one where I worked one time. Great sense of humor and seemingly a nice guy. Then he was arrested. It took me completely by surprise. What always found interesting was the aftermath of the arrest. When my fellow co-workers recounted things he said and wondered if they shouldn't have picked up on who he really was. I never picked up on anything he said or did and wondered how much of my co-workers' statements were more imagination rather than fact. Yeah, I think he fooled us. He certainly fooled me.

 

[JnRyan]

Since there was no school that day I think everything related to school needs another look. And why did they wait so long to talk about the car that was parked at CPS building? Carter said at the last press conference the car was parked on the 14th of Feb. the day after the murders. Carter being very emotional and I quote said......"he may be in this room" Is there a big clue concerning the car? Frustrating very frustrating.

Carter said the 14th, but ISP issued a correction the next day stating he meant to say the 13th, the day of the murders. Given the number of times LE provides a vehicle description when addressing the public about a crime, I still wonder why they haven't provided one here. And why over two years later? Was the revelation of the vehicle part of the new direction? That is, was the presence of the vehicle in the area a fact that LE didn't previously place any importance until over 2 years later?

 

[Peppery]

Great post. I also find it odd that we've never heard from anyone who saw the girls at the trails that day.

This has always bothered me, big time. And I’m not sure why, because we know that’s where KG dropped them off, where the SC pic was from and where they were ultimately found. But why didn’t anyone see them?

If someone went to police and said they saw the girls, why wouldn’t police release that? “The girls were last seen at abc at xyz time.”

Even before that, on the night of the 13th, if there was really 500 searchers, that’s 20% of the town’s population. I assume each searcher knows at least one person who wasn’t searching, so at least 40% of the town knew they were missing. Add in other children/peers who knew but weren’t searching and it could easily be more than half of Delphi. Why didn’t we hear that someone saw them? Anna and Mike both gave interviews to the news stations that night. We heard about phone pings and someone forwarded the sc photo (not sure to whom. AW or KG maybe?) why didn’t we hear someone saw them on the trails?

 

[sunshineray]

Sunshine, this is one of the many questions I've wanted to know the answer to: how many people were on the trails before the girls were declared missing, and who were they? I've never seen an official answer to "how many." I'd also really like to know how many people were in the groups of searchers--I've seen 500, but that's another piece of data that isn't officially confirmed anywhere I can find it.

I've wondered about the risk from other people on the trails; many people assume BG had scouted the territory. But if I were doing something so monstrous, something that would certainly land me on Death Row if caught, I'd be very concerned about proceeding, if there were that many people around. Your "amazes me ... continue with plans" comment sums that up nicely. The idea that BG had a prepared spot sounds like it might well be true. If it is, then some of the rumors about "staging the scene" might have some truth to them.

Abby's Mom Anna Williams says at around
27:45, that she's aware there were at least 50 people out and about the trail areas that day. That's a lot of people.

It's also been said the killer(s) was/were still there when DG was actively looking for the girls.

 

[JnRyan]

Great post. I also find it odd that we've never heard from anyone who saw the girls at the trails that day.

This didn't seem to be apparent to me until months or years later. Now, to me anyway, it is one of the oddest aspects of this crime. I don't know if someone saw the girls and LE has told them to be silent OR if no one other than the killer saw the girls that day. If it is the later, it makes me wonder that if Abigail and Liberty were not seen by anyone else, then is it possible none of the witnesses actually saw the killer at any time that day? IOW, is it possible that our only description of the killer lies in the grainy photo on the bridge and no where else?

 

[MollyDDD]

I think he had a lair set up. I also think he thought he had more time. Abby's Mom confirmed that there were 50+ people on and around the trails that day. It amazes me the killer(s?) even decided to continue with their plans.

With no leaves on the trees sounds carry better...and over water. We know CE and friend(s?) crossed over bridge after the girls, others were hiking the trails, then Libby's father and grandmother are calling her cell. I'm thinking killer(s?) got spooked. AJMO

You know, for someone to take such risk, murder two people in such a short amount of time, escape and leave very little evidence behind, something's definitely missing in this story, besides the killer. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

minazoe, I'm just curious, if you feel like sharing. Was your "candidate" a searcher?

Speaking of which, does anyone know what requirements, if any, does a searcher need to provide to LE before they can officially help in a search for a missing person?
Or can just anyone show up and help? TIA

 

[MollyDDD]

minazoe, I'm just curious, if you feel like sharing. Was your "candidate" a searcher?

Speaking of which, does anyone know what requirements, if any, does a searcher need to provide to LE before they can officially help in a search for a missing person?
Or can just anyone show up and help? TIA

Abby's Mom Anna Williams says at around
27:45, that she's aware there were at least 50 people out and about the trail areas that day. That's a lot of people.

It's also been said the killer(s) was/were still there when DG was actively looking for the girls.

Perhaps that’s were the first sketch may have come from?