Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[watcher9]

At the time when LE - ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman in August 2017 - said no one reconstructed the scene correctly I took it at face value. (I believe that was before one YouTube'r did a recreation but tried to look at some variations of it as well.) Now I wonder if that true interpretation is "No one has correctly reconstructed the scene because WE aren't sure of it either." My view comes from the HLN interview this last February with CCSO Sheriff Leazenby's revelation that they don't know the killer's path from the crime scene. So what else in the timeline does LE not know for sure?

What if LE misconstrued the evidence? Well, we do know they had to revise the sketch so they possibly misconstrued that part. What if evidence or interpretation of evidence relating to that first sketch was hindered by the information that was related to it?

And your take on the witnesses, their memory and vision just muddies the water even further so I won't even go there.

When GH made his video of what he thought happened that day according to the information released. I thought he had nailed it, showing how he lined up everything according to the clips and actual bridge. I tried different scenarios like marching the girls back across the bridge and then down the hill and I knew that couldn't work - someone could have come. Maybe the part wrong was him taking the girls across the creek when he was really trying to corral them to his car parked on the road that goes under the bridge and the girls fled across the creek themselves before being caught.

Do we know where exactly the shoe was found?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

So I heard an interesting spin on who we are looking at as a poi. I'm going to quote "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one." Let me know what you think.

 

[Justice101]

following

 

[AC4RD]

We have had 3 high profile cases in Australia that have made lots of progress ... I think LE should release more of what they know in this Abby and Libby case instead of keeping info "close to their vest". This case has always frustrated me due to the limited info and the confusion with the sketches and what it actually means.

So many of us feel that way--I do, about 30% of the time. (MOO!) And I think the LE people are doing the right thing another 30% of the time. Most of us probably don't switch and back so often as I do on this. It's the other 40% chance that I think is more sound: Only the law enforcement people themselves have the power to judge what to release. They may be discussing "Did we do right or should have we released more information?" among themselves; we really can't know, and we won't really be able to understand until after a conviction allows letting information out. Feels like we SHOULD know, but ...

Speaking of big cases there down South, every year or three I take a look on the web to see if there's anything new on the Beaumomnt children, and anything new about "the Family Murders." :-( It may be too late to jail the guilty, but it's never too late to identify them. (MOOOooooooo.)

 

[Marzipan]

So I heard an interesting spin on who we are looking at as a poi. I'm going to quote "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one." Let me know what you think.

Ive had a tough week and can’t compute. Can you spell this out a little more for me, please?

 

[ph!sh]

I am starting to think about the deliberate editing of the “Guys... Down the Hill” phrase now. What COULD have been cut out that was deemed not important for the Public to hear? IMO it COULD be something that COULD give his identity away if it was something along the lines of “Turn around ya varmints and go” (Down the Hill)
Just an example. People use so many different turns of phrase distinctly individual to them. Would love to know what was cut out, just to hear if there’s anything relevant. But LE are the experts, I am just theorising, while we wait ...

I think about this often! From analyzing the video I believe BG has something in the right side of his jacket (assuming the video was not taken in "selfie mode" where the image may be mirrored... his dominant hand would be another aspect interesting to consider). MOO is that it was a gun and he was reaching for it, as his hand on that side does not appear to be in his jeans pocket. What if the audio captured the gun cocking/clicking? This would be plausible as one way BG could have controlled and manipulated the girls. Releasing a sound bit of that would potentially expose the murder weapon which we know LE does not want to reveal. It will be known only to the killer.

I also wonder if these pieces of audio are just the only snippets of his voice that could be salvaged. It seems Libby was somehow extremely discreet in capturing audio and video of BG... perhaps as he got closer she put her phone in her pocket. There may be a lot of unclear audio from the phone if it was brushing against her clothing. MOO. As you said, just theorizing while we wait

 

[Charlot123]

When GH made his video of what he thought happened that day according to the information released. I thought he had nailed it, showing how he lined up everything according to the clips and actual bridge. I tried different scenarios like marching the girls back across the bridge and then down the hill and I knew that couldn't work - someone could have come. Maybe the part wrong was him taking the girls across the creek when he was really trying to corral them to his car parked on the road that goes under the bridge and the girls fled across the creek themselves before being caught.

Do we know where exactly the shoe was found?

We don’t know, but according to different sources citing what Kelsi had said on GH’s show, it was found on the south side of the creek, closer to the driveway than to the bank.

 

[AC4RD]

Can you spell this out a little more for me, please?

Ms Sgt Pepper hasn't replied yet; it's such an interesting point that I can't resist adding my own interpretation of "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one."

IMO this means that the person or people who know BG in his normal life don't know he's a soulless evil monster who is capable of the horrors that Libby & Abby found. People may think he's a little odd, perhaps think he's got a slightly strange personality, whatever, but they have no idea of the True Evil (tm) behind the mask. Think about Joe DeAngelo (EAR), Dennis Rader (BTK), and Ed Gein--they lived fairly ordinary lives until their ghastly crimes were revealed. You don't find the monster; you find the person who has been fooled into thinking a monster is an ordinary eccentric until the pieces come together: Ted Kaczynski's brother thought he was eccentric until the brother realized Ted was the Unibomber.

Interesting point from the member (Sgt Pepper) with the very cute "photo!" Thanks!

 

[TTF14]

At the time when LE - ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman in August 2017 - said no one reconstructed the scene correctly I took it at face value. (I believe that was before one YouTube'r did a recreation but tried to look at some variations of it as well.) Now I wonder if that true interpretation is "No one has correctly reconstructed the scene because WE aren't sure of it either." My view comes from the HLN interview this last February with CCSO Sheriff Leazenby's revelation that they don't know the killer's path from the crime scene. So what else in the timeline does LE not know for sure?

What if LE misconstrued the evidence? Well, we do know they had to revise the sketch so they possibly misconstrued that part. What if evidence or interpretation of evidence relating to that first sketch was hindered by the information that was related to it?

And your take on the witnesses, their memory and vision just muddies the water even further so I won't even go there.

Excellent post, and also the one you were replying to (Charlot's). This is where I've landed on this case (evidence was misconstrued in the beginning).

 

[Marzipan]

Ms Sgt Pepper hasn't replied yet; it's such an interesting point that I can't resist adding my own interpretation of "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one."

IMO this means that the person or people who know BG in his normal life don't know he's a soulless evil monster who is capable of the horrors that Libby & Abby found. People may think he's a little odd, perhaps think he's got a slightly strange personality, whatever, but they have no idea of the True Evil (tm) behind the mask. Think about Joe DeAngelo (EAR), Dennis Rader (BTK), and Ed Gein--they lived fairly ordinary lives until their ghastly crimes were revealed. You don't find the monster; you find the person who has been fooled into thinking a monster is an ordinary eccentric until the pieces come together: Ted Kaczynski's brother thought he was eccentric until the brother realized Ted was the Unibomber.

Interesting point from the member (Sgt Pepper) with the very cute "photo!" Thanks!

Okay, thank you. My brain fog is clearing! I can think of one or more this could apply to. And many clearly bad dudes it doesn’t. But it mainly fits for people we don’t know to consider yet. She alluded to a POI, and if course we don’t name people. Just another one of those times I’m curious who it is, but our rules rightfully prevent us from all knowing.

 

[minazoe]

well we do name JBC who is still under investigation as far as we know...so what does it mean?

they need someone who was fooled by a monster to take off the rose colored glasses... and see they have been fooled..

so who is this mysterious person?

mOO

 

[MollyDDD]

At the time when LE - ISP 1st Sgt Jerry Holeman in August 2017 - said no one reconstructed the scene correctly I took it at face value. (I believe that was before one YouTube'r did a recreation but tried to look at some variations of it as well.) Now I wonder if that true interpretation is "No one has correctly reconstructed the scene because WE aren't sure of it either." My view comes from the HLN interview this last February with CCSO Sheriff Leazenby's revelation that they don't know the killer's path from the crime scene. So what else in the timeline does LE not know for sure?

What if LE misconstrued the evidence? Well, we do know they had to revise the sketch so they possibly misconstrued that part. What if evidence or interpretation of evidence relating to that first sketch was hindered by the information that was related to it?

And your take on the witnesses, their memory and vision just muddies the water even further so I won't even go there.

It would be a God awful shame if the murderer gets away with this horrendous crime because of human error or incompetence on the part of LE. What must the families be thinking? IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

When GH made his video of what he thought happened that day according to the information released. I thought he had nailed it, showing how he lined up everything according to the clips and actual bridge. I tried different scenarios like marching the girls back across the bridge and then down the hill and I knew that couldn't work - someone could have come. Maybe the part wrong was him taking the girls across the creek when he was really trying to corral them to his car parked on the road that goes under the bridge and the girls fled across the creek themselves before being caught.

Do we know where exactly the shoe was found?

IIRC, the shoe was found in the creek. When I try to imagine what happened as the BG approached the girls, my first impression would be that they would run away screaming. If he was a stranger to them and they were frightened, it’s human instinct to survive danger with the “fight or flight” response. So unless he quickly bounded them together or Libby tried to fight him off, he was taking a big chance trying to chase after two young girls running for their lives and not be seen doing it.
My gut still tells me this meeting was planned. Snapchat allows communications to disappear within a few minutes with no record left behind. Our BG could have been in touch with one or both of the girls and arranged to meet there. He was prepared, but they weren’t. IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

So I heard an interesting spin on who we are looking at as a poi. I'm going to quote "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one." Let me know what you think.

This person would not know, that they were deceived by a monster. Those, who realized it, are probably dead (or too close to the monster).

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Ms Sgt Pepper hasn't replied yet; it's such an interesting point that I can't resist adding my own interpretation of "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one."

IMO this means that the person or people who know BG in his normal life don't know he's a soulless evil monster who is capable of the horrors that Libby & Abby found. People may think he's a little odd, perhaps think he's got a slightly strange personality, whatever, but they have no idea of the True Evil (tm) behind the mask. Think about Joe DeAngelo (EAR), Dennis Rader (BTK), and Ed Gein--they lived fairly ordinary lives until their ghastly crimes were revealed. You don't find the monster; you find the person who has been fooled into thinking a monster is an ordinary eccentric until the pieces come together: Ted Kaczynski's brother thought he was eccentric until the brother realized Ted was the Unibomber.

Interesting point from the member (Sgt Pepper) with the very cute "photo!"

I so appreciate your taking the time to really dissect, if you will, what the author actually means by the "monster". Your examples of BTK, etc. Whoever he is is hiding in plain sight. I wonder how other mysteries are solved with way LESS evidence and cases like Delphi have way MORE evidence like the photos and video of the killer but are not easily solved.

 

[Georgia8]

I'm surprised more isn't made of the demeanour of the speaker at the second press conference. To what extent is he acting/performing and to what extent are his emotions real? By acting I mean to get a response from someone who as he says may be in the room OR, being under pressure, needing to show who distraught he is by the murders. Or he could be on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I am in Canada and have never seen someone in charge of a homicide investigation come even close to being this broken down. I am wondering what it means.

I assume police had cameras on the audience during the press conference. Do we know that for sure? So for example when he references The Shack or suddenly addresses killer cameras could gauge the response of the killer.

Monster is such cliche just as crime scenes are always grizzly. It is not just information that they are withholding that is the problem it is also what they are not saying things like there are signatures and hints of special horror at the crime scene it just sets everyone's imagination racing and I can't see how it helps.

Can I ask is the following correct: are their large holes in the knees of the jeans of BG and is he almost certainly carrying something large a flat object (like a tablet?) in the right side under his jeans? Or not?

 

[Charlot123]

This person would not know, that they were deceived by a monster. Those, who realized it, are probably dead (or too close to the monster).

this is exactly what I wanted to write, “those who have been deceived by a monster are six feet under”.

 

[Charlot123]

I so appreciate your taking the time to really dissect, if you will, what the author actually means by the "monster". Your examples of BTK, etc. Whoever he is is hiding in plain sight. I wonder how other mysteries are solved with way LESS evidence and cases like Delphi have way MORE evidence like the photos and video of the killer but are not easily solved.

BTW, the real monster (a child predator who got into newspapers) with whom i once used to work was absolutely standing out, and in a positive way. Handsome, suave, liked music and shared some of my hobbies. He had great reputation. Till that newspaper article and the scandal. He was not a killer, but a molester. But again, everyone’s first reaction was, “no way, such a nice guy!”

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Ms Sgt Pepper hasn't replied yet; it's such an interesting point that I can't resist adding my own interpretation of "We don't need to find the person who knows a monster. You need to find the person that has been deceived by one."

IMO this means that the person or people who know BG in his normal life don't know he's a soulless evil monster who is capable of the horrors that Libby & Abby found. People may think he's a little odd, perhaps think he's got a slightly strange personality, whatever, but they have no idea of the True Evil (tm) behind the mask. Think about Joe DeAngelo (EAR), Dennis Rader (BTK), and Ed Gein--they lived fairly ordinary lives until their ghastly crimes were revealed. You don't find the monster; you find the person who has been fooled into thinking a monster is an ordinary eccentric until the pieces come together: Ted Kaczynski's brother thought he was eccentric until the brother realized Ted was the Unibomber.

Interesting point from the member (Sgt Pepper) with the very cute "photo!" Thanks!

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Since there was no school that day I think everything related to school needs another look. And why did they wait so long to talk about the car that was parked at CPS building? Carter said at the last press conference the car was parked on the 14th of Feb. the day after the murders. Carter being very emotional and I quote said......"he may be in this room" Is there a big clue concerning the car? Frustrating very frustrating.