Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #140

[prblythe]

If it was just the local LE involved in the beginning, I could see where you might be right. Small town incompitence. I would like to believe since the FBI was involved from the start that their actions regarding KK were due to a plan perhaps.
You know......let the guy go but never let him out of their site and scope out All of his internet communications. See who it leads to and if there were bigger fish to fry. Think they just got tired of waiting for connections, so they pull him in on CP charges to keep him on the line while they continue to research Abbey and Libby's murder . I think others have also suggested this....who knows.

More fish to fry. Bust up a ring while keeping cards close to the vest. Justice is slow but justice includes all involved.

 

[anotherjenny]

Yes. I’ve never thought he was walking weird across that dilapidated bridge.
If you videoed 100 people walking across that bridge they all would be walking funny by necessity or sheer terror of being up there.
I do think his slouch, the way his head is held, hands in pockets, etc are important however.

Agree 100%. I've watched other videos of people walking across it and they, too, look as if they may have a limp.

 

[JnRyan]

It seems to me it's entirely possible that a girl who didn't go to the bridge is the missing link. If it was loosely going a be a group of girls, one girl who might've been catfish unaware communicated that she was (for example) upset that her parents wouldn't let her go (implication being that her friends could). In a scenario like this, A and L would never have been catfished themselves nor have posted their plans/location. A friend may have been the unwitting portal.

JMO

While I don't have this at the top of my list of possibilities, it is still likely and another to add to the list.

 

[prblythe]

Agree 100%. I've watched other videos of people walking across it and they, too, look as if they may have a limp.

O guess I'm just not seeing that as I would expect each each step being inconsistent instead of favoring one leg over the other. The clip is too short to say one way or not. But yes it is a challenge. I'm just baffed at how he could be navigating and still be able to pounce. Thank you for your insight

 

[TL4S]

The question that keeps nagging me is whether KAK, while clearly an admitted pedophile, is also a killer? We have this "odd" double murder that involves walking down hills, through woods and underbrush, crossing a creek, leaving signatures, a crime which makes for a complex and complicated investigation. I have trouble convincing myself that KAK is capable of all of this. And I'm not just talking on a physical level, but if it's even his style. IDK.

That said, judging by the nature of his charges, I do not doubt for a second that he might have been participating in chat groups and sharing, back and forth, some pretty sick material. It's in there, somewhere, where I think BG was lurking. I think the signatures might be important in tracing where KAK and BG crossed virtual paths, if they did.

 

[prblythe]

I do wish LE would secure that any information would be confidential to anyone who might have encountered KAK as a victim.Without that dislaimer it seems almost like a message to others involved as perps to turn evidence and not a message to victims. Maybe it is just an ephinany to me but who else would know about him more than the people he is involved with. I was making the assumption it was to get other victims to come forward. A conscience might be prickeded and that he went one step farther on a different level.

 

[mekeritrig]

The question that keeps nagging me is whether KAK, while clearly an admitted pedophile, is also a killer? We have this "odd" double murder that involves walking down hills, through woods and underbrush, crossing a creek, leaving signatures, a crime which makes for a complex and complicated investigation. I have trouble convincing myself that KAK is capable of all of this.

That said, judging by the nature of his charges, I do not doubt for a second that he might have been participating in chat groups and sharing, back and forth, some pretty sick material. It's in there, somewhere, where I think BG was lurking. I think the signatures might be important in tracing where KAK and BG crossed virtual paths, if they did.

(bbm)

The alleged snapchat conversion that was shown on the Gray Hughes show between a young girl who was friends with Libby and the Anthony_shots account a few weeks before the murders is very interesting because it shows that the guy (presumably Kline) was trying to meet with a young girl. This is a step beyond just trying to get photos or videos and you have to wonder if he was serious about it. Maybe after catfishing young women for several months, he decided to escalate his behavior and transition to meeting them.

If so, I'd say Kline is a very dangerous individual because what possible outcome could there have been if he ever met with one of the girls he was catfishing? Leads me to think this guy was at least active fantasizing about assaulting girls he was catfishing and was perhaps moving on to trying to arrange such situations right around the time the murders occurred.

 

[Deerrun]

all internet providers require a subpoena before they hand over account details such as name and address, in the affidavit they state Comcast was subpoenad and that is where they got the kline information to then go to a judge and get the SW for the home

Ok, I see. So they (LE) can see illegal material being downloaded to an IP address without a subpoena but in order to find out who the IP address belongs to (name and address) they have to subpoena the internet provider. They then take that info to a judge to get a warrant. Thank you for your correction plus I learned how to spell subpoena.

 

[x_files]

(bbm)

The alleged snapchat conversion that was shown on the Gray Hughes show between a young girl who was friends with Libby and the Anthony_shots account a few weeks before the murders is very interesting because it shows that the guy (presumably Kline) was trying to meet with a young girl. This is a step beyond just trying to get photos or videos and you have to wonder if he was serious about it. Maybe after catfishing young women for several months, he decided to escalate his behavior and transition to meeting them.

If so, I'd say Kline is a very dangerous individual because what possible outcome could there have been if he ever met with one of the girls he was catfishing? Leads me to think this guy was at least active fantasizing about assaulting girls he was catfishing and was perhaps moving on to trying to arrange such situations right around the time the murders occurred.

I agree. The fact he wanted to meet up not just chat, swap photos speaks volumes.

 

[TL4S]

(bbm)

The alleged snapchat conversion that was shown on the Gray Hughes show between a young girl who was friends with Libby and the Anthony_shots account a few weeks before the murders is very interesting because it shows that the guy (presumably Kline) was trying to meet with a young girl. This is a step beyond just trying to get photos or videos and you have to wonder if he was serious about it. Maybe after catfishing young women for several months, he decided to escalate his behavior and transition to meeting them.

If so, I'd say Kline is a very dangerous individual because what possible outcome could there have been if he ever met with one of the girls he was catfishing? Leads me to think this guy was at least active fantasizing about assaulting girls he was catfishing and was perhaps moving on to trying to arrange such situations right around the time the murders occurred.

I agree. There are other rumored meetups, as well, but we also have a solicitation charge from 5/14/16, where it appears he attempted a meeting. This does all point to someone prepared to take things a step further than simple online activity. It's scary.

What concerns me is that KAK does not appear to have any charges showing he "produced" CSAM. He might have been disseminating photos he had received directly from juvenile females online, no doubt. But he also had CSAM material which included very young children with adults, etc. Clearly, he was getting material from other sources. From whom and from where were those materials obtained? I might be the only one, but his 2/17/17 charges worry me considerably. Is the aggravating factor because the victim was under 12 (F), or was it one of the other factors (A-E), which, looking at it from the perspective of 4 days after the murders, is very disturbing to me. At best, if factors A-E were involved in the material he possessed and tried to disseminate on 2/17/17, it shows a tendency towards sicker, possibly more violent material, both for himself and his sources. If that makes sense. At worst, I don't even want to go there.

 

[AC4RD]

O guess I'm just not seeing that as I would expect each each step being inconsistent instead of favoring one leg over the other. The clip is too short to say one way or not. But yes it is a challenge. I'm just baffed at how he could be navigating and still be able to pounce.

I just watched a slow-motion version on the web; it appears to me that we see his right foot land, left foot lands, then right foot almost lands--the clip apparently ends there, before the right foot is planted the second time. At that last step his right foot is crossing to the left of his line of travel, presumably to avoid stepping on something or to move to a better line of travel on the bridge.

Having seen it several times in slow-mo, I still think it looks like an unnatural gait forced by the gaps and rotted wood. But I definitely see how others might see something else in it. This is IMO another "who the heck knows" issue. We'll know when BG goes to trial--which now looks like it might actually happen, and soon-ish. About time!

 

[Deerrun]

Way early on in this case, wasn't it mentioned that another friend was supposed to go to the bridge with them, but ended up not being able to? Does anyone else remember that or is my memory playing tricks?

Wow, yes I heard that early on too. Jmo but if a friend who was supposed to go with them didn't, that friend could have been in touch with whomever was on Anthony_shots account and casually said her friends were going to the bridge but she couldn't go. If she communicated with this account before the girls even got there it would be plenty of time for BG to either arrive and wait for them or seek them out. Jmo

 

[photographer4]

GH is sharing some information he received on the Anthony_Shots profile in March of 2017. It includes screenshots of an Anthony_Shots conversation with another individual.

ETA: I will have to go back to get the verbatim, but it sounds like it is being stated that this conversation was between a friend of Libby’s, which she had recently spent the night with, and the Anthony_Shots profile. JMO

Video unavailable... UGH. What have I missed?

 

[LeBlack]

The question that keeps nagging me is whether KAK, while clearly an admitted pedophile, is also a killer? We have this "odd" double murder that involves walking down hills, through woods and underbrush, crossing a creek, leaving signatures, a crime which makes for a complex and complicated investigation. I have trouble convincing myself that KAK is capable of all of this. And I'm not just talking on a physical level, but if it's even his style. IDK.

That said, judging by the nature of his charges, I do not doubt for a second that he might have been participating in chat groups and sharing, back and forth, some pretty sick material. It's in there, somewhere, where I think BG was lurking. I think the signatures might be important in tracing where KAK and BG crossed virtual paths, if they did.

Before I lose my thoughts on this. The WS video from last night was talking about that in order to be a part of these dark web pedo groups, you have to load images of you committing a crime so that they have something over you. (besides that you are viewing/downloading CP. How many 'run of the mill' pedos are going to report info they find on the dark web about what has happened to any missing/murdered children?

 

[TL4S]

Before I lose my thoughts on this. The WS video from last night was talking about that in order to be a part of these dark web pedo groups, you have to load images of you committing a crime so that they have something over you. (besides that you are viewing/downloading CP. How many 'run of the mill' pedos are going to report info they find on the dark web about what has happened to any missing/murdered children?

That's horrible, and you're right, I doubt anyone on there would likely report much. What's scary, though, is that I don't think a pedo has to go to the dark web to find whatever they are looking for. A simple Kik group chat can be an easy source for material, as proven by the Kokomo teacher case this past summer. I'm sure there are many, many groups, of all levels of depravity, available to anyone looking for it. Makes me sick.

 

[flashy09]

I agree. The fact he wanted to meet up not just chat, swap photos speaks volumes.

What about that second sketch? Do you think that is of the Anthony Shots profile picture rather than a trail witness? One thing KAK does not have is a full head of curly hair and he doesn't appear younger than his true age.

 

[prblythe]

My impression is that is not a slam dunk unless someone comes forward with immunity. But the problem is there is no inccentive to do so. The only progress is that they now can connect KAK to the case. Atleast thats some progress.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

(Hey everyone. I finally have a respite day from my brain damaged husband to catch up on everything I’ve missed on here.
I’m sure my next question has already been answered. Today is my first respite day since May 24, and I finally now have time to start reading to catch up. I am very very behind.
My question: Is the statement that ISP provided to the public, was that their way of saying that KK is BG, and/or partially responsible for what happened to A&L? And/or are they saying that they really, really made a big fat boo-boo regarding Abby & Libby’s case? I’m also getting that they have known who BG is from the beginning but for whatever unbeknownst reason to us they have not arrested him, and they’re missing puzzle piece is due to the fact that this is a huge pedophile ring or something like that and they are trying to take down the entire ring, which is why they didn’t arrest KK or whoever BG is from the get) Or is it something else entirely?)

The article:

“The Indiana State Police has received many media inquiries since our December 6th press release concerning “anthony_shots” and eventually the identification of (a man). Your questions are certainly relevant as they relate to a long, complex, and extremely complicated murder investigation.

During the last nearly five years, we have conducted dozens of secondary investigations based on information we received. One of those investigations included a Possession of Child *advertiser censored* case resulting in the arrest of (a man). The information we had, have, and continue to receive concerning (the man) has ebbed and flowed over these last few years. We understand there was a period of time that passed between 2017 and 2020 when (the man) was not arrested and incarcerated for Possession of Child *advertiser censored*. Once the Indiana State Police presented the criminal case to the Miami County Prosecutor in June of 2020, immediate action was taken by both the Indiana State Police and the Miami County Prosecutor’s Office, which ultimately resulted in (the man’s) arrest.

Like so many other pieces of this investigation, we will always review, learn from, and make any necessary adjustments. We do not believe that any person has done anything intentionally wrong, but we will continue to critically evaluate our efforts.

We know there is enormous interest in the “WHY” of everything we do, but we cannot and will not speculate. One day you will have the opportunity to see and know what we do, and we look forward to that day.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wr...tatement-about-delphi-investigation?_amp=true


(all M[][] & please excuse any typos, and/or grammatical errors as I am using talk to text and I don’t have a lot of time to proofread)

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks. I remember that video, the touch DNA on the sweatshirt, only a partial DNA and the issues with the DNA. Right off, though, I only remember one thing he said about the DNA that was later corroborated by LE. That was the fact that LE wasn't sure if they had the killer's DNA and that came out this last February when Sheriff Tobe Leazenby acknowledged that fact to HLN in an interview. I still question the validity of the info though. In my background as an auditor, testimonial evidence is the lowest form of evidence. So low, in fact, that it can not be used as evidence in an audit report unless it is corroborated by other stronger, non-testimonial evidence. So that is really my take on it from where I'm coming from.

The caller's take on how long he was in the area is interesting and I wonder what he is basing it on or the reliability of his source. (Remember in that same HLN interview with Sheriff Leazenby, he states they do not know the path of the killer from the crime scene. So does LE even have a handle on the timeline?) If the girls encountered the killer between 2:15 and 2:30 (from FBI billboards early on) the path from the bridge, down the hill and to the crime scene could have been covered in 15-20 minutes. If the murders happened fairly quick - and I believe they did - this killer could have started his exit from the crime scene 10-20 minutes before Liberty's father arrived (3:11). It is possible that by 3:30 this killer could be on the road exiting the Delphi area. Of course, he could have taken his time leaving the area. I just believe he left as quickly as he could without being seen.

What I do find interesting is about 2:10 in the video, the caller speculates the killer was visiting someone nearby and committed the murders. One of my strongest scenarios from very early on has been a variation of that scenario. The weakness I find with the caller's scenario is that if the killer was visiting a resident, then someone in the area might at least remember the face from somewhere in town. I believe the killer had, sometime in the past, BEEN - past tense - a visitor or even a resident. Perhaps as a middle school student. I know when I had an older relative in the mid-west, I ventured not only all over the property, but crossed numerous fences and became familiar with a large part of that county. (Yeah, I was trespassing, but to the best of my knowledge I was never seen, let alone caught.) Had I gone back there 10-15 years later I could have continued over that same area. And if I did return I seriously doubt if anyone would have recognized me as the 12-15 yo kid who used to stay with persons who had been deceased for about 8-10 years. And the area I'm talking about in the mid-west is probably 5-10 times larger than the Delphi trail and adjacent property. Still it is interesting to hear someone on a GH video or another video or podcast toss out a similar scenario.

There was also a GH video that addressed the killer's exit, with some details about killer being seen by a witness at cemetery area.

About 15 mins or so in it starts. GH mentions getting a phone call. I can't remember if he also mentions said phone call before the 15 min mark, he might have.

 

[prblythe]

Good lord I've been up almost 24 hours. I feel like we are square dancing and and it seems we can't find the drummer.