Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #141

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I think the same as you. IMO older, I could never unsee the first sketch in the video. Young sketch guy was and is perplexing to me as I can’t see him on the video. I don’t know the mannerisms, clothes, he looks to me like he’s got beer belly( thin legs and bigger stomach) he just looks to me like a guy over 35-40 I can’t help it.

Someone (I can't remember who) posted an enhanced video of BG on this forum. In that video, IMO, BG looked much younger than in the other grainy videos. I would place him in his twenties. Does anyone else remember seeing this enhanced video?
 
Yes, we apparently have witnesses, plural, who saw the killer that day. But from all we've been told no one saw the girls. I suppose that is possible. If that car parked at the CPS building from approx. noon to 5 PM, maybe he was there longer than Abigail and Liberty. They were dropped off sometime around 1PM and had a Snapchat on the bridge about an hour later. Still, I find it odd that he was seen and by more than one person and NO ONE saw the girls. Or did the witnesses really see the killer? Or if the witnesses saw the 'killer' at different locations at different times, did they not all see the same person?

I'm having a lot of doubts about Sketch #1, Sketch #2 or that it is a combination of both. I'm having doubts that DNA is going to lead to the killer. That video by Liberty is about the only thing I place any trust in now.

..the girls not being seen might be explained if this happened ...
the girls entered the trails from a place that just wasn't a popular spot and if BG came from the more exposed freedom bridge ..so him being seen before the murder would make sense..
and if no one was around around the abduction and murder time..and the rest of witnesses would arrive as BG would be exiting the scene ...
however ...again even if he was seen. entering and leaving..he would have been cautious enough not to be exposed for identification ..
I mean he def wasn't exposed like he is shown in sketch 2 and id like le to try and explain this sketch instead of telling ppl just that ( this what BG looks like underneath it all !)
 
It is getting close to the time for a new thread, #142. For the amount of attention this case is receiving it is amazing that there has been no arrest or, worse, no suspect. 142 threads in 5 years comes out to over 28 per year. There are cases on WS that are twice as old and don't have 28 total threads. Of course, that attention is also true with the tips - over 50K. Probably the highest profile crime in our area, The Colonial Parkway Murders, is still on its first thread. The Evansdale murders, over twice as old, is on thread #38. The number of podcasters and YouTubers covering this case is lengthy.

And still not much further along than the beginning. Amazing and sad at the same time.
 
We don't know for a fact that nobody saw the girls that day. It hasn't been shared publicly, if they did, but from where the girls were dropped off to the north end of the bridge is only around 1/4 mile, imo. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else was around that specific stretch during that specific time. Of course, it's entirely possible that the girls were seen earlier on the trail... by BG, and nobody else being around is exactly why he chose to act. After all, DC did say in one interview that the crime scene started at the trailhead.
 
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We don't know for a fact that nobody saw the girls that day. It hasn't been shared publicly, if they did, but from where the girls were dropped off to the north end of the bridge is only around 1/4 mile, imo. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else was around that specific stretch during that specific time. Of course, it's entirely possible that the girls were seen earlier on the trail... by BG, and nobody else being around is exactly why he chose to act. After all, DC did say in one interview that the crime scene started at the trailhead.

I think that is how it probably happened. I think they maybe even passed him at some point walking towards the bridge. For whatever reason he decided they were going to be “it” for him. I think he hung back and watched them and then followed from a distance before he decided to act.
 
I'm all in on the catfishing angle, here's why...

The distance from Peru to the Delphi Freedom Bridge is less than 37 miles. It was reported that 11 days after the murders a home in Peru was raided in connection with the Delphi killings. It is my understanding that this raid was conducted on the home of KAK's father.

KAK has admitted to catfishing and trying to meet underage girls using the Anthony Shots account. The screenshots from Libby's video of BG are strikingly similar to KAK (as he appeared back in 2017). The second (younger) sketch seems to me like it was based on the photos used by KAK for the Anthony Shots profile.

I believe KAK will ultimately be charged with these murders.

This is all MOO, obviously...

I also feel like there might be a connection here, although I’m not sold on KAK being the killer himself. What absolutely baffles me is the length of time between the raid and the KAK charges. 3 years? What was happening? I mean he received really bad images and videos from underage girls, and LE let it go for 3 years?
 
I also feel like there might be a connection here, although I’m not sold on KAK being the killer himself. What absolutely baffles me is the length of time between the raid and the KAK charges. 3 years? What was happening? I mean he received really bad images and videos from underage girls, and LE let it go for 3 years?
Perhaps the lead detective was not on fire to catch such people.
 
I think that is how it probably happened. I think they maybe even passed him at some point walking towards the bridge. For whatever reason he decided they were going to be “it” for him. I think he hung back and watched them and then followed from a distance before he decided to act.

I can't remember the sources off the top of my head but didn't a family member or two (maybe even someone in LE) confirm that on the video, the girls do reference the fact that they had run into BG earlier. It's something along the lines of "oh, it's him again isn't it." Something that implies that they crossed paths with him earlier. The entrance they came in would be near some benches on the trail.

I agree that we actually don't know a lot about who saw what on the trail, so it's very possible multiple people saw them. I think a lot of what we do know about witnesses are what people have shared about their own experience.
 
JMO, my thoughts are that (1) This was pre-planned and the perp achieved what he set out to do which was to silence the girls FOREVER... why else would he carry a murder kit?

(2) The perp /(perps) are lying low fearing that LE is onto them but LE hasn't been able to disprove their alibi. Remember the statement that the public will be shocked when the perp/perps are revealed *not verbatim* Again, JMO.
1000% Agree with both
 
I can't remember the sources off the top of my head but didn't a family member or two (maybe even someone in LE) confirm that on the video, the girls do reference the fact that they had run into BG earlier. It's something along the lines of "oh, it's him again isn't it." Something that implies that they crossed paths with him earlier. The entrance they came in would be near some benches on the trail.

I agree that we actually don't know a lot about who saw what on the trail, so it's very possible multiple people saw them. I think a lot of what we do know about witnesses are what people have shared about their own experience.
Hmm-- I dont ever remember that being said about "it's him again" Do you have a link to that??
I do remember BP in her Q and A and Anna mentioning about the "creepy guy" but no mention of seeing him "again" or that they saw him before.

Interesting and I would like to read/hear this part.
TIA
 
It is getting close to the time for a new thread, #142. For the amount of attention this case is receiving it is amazing that there has been no arrest or, worse, no suspect. 142 threads in 5 years comes out to over 28 per year. There are cases on WS that are twice as old and don't have 28 total threads. Of course, that attention is also true with the tips - over 50K. Probably the highest profile crime in our area, The Colonial Parkway Murders, is still on its first thread. The Evansdale murders, over twice as old, is on thread #38. The number of podcasters and YouTubers covering this case is lengthy.

And still not much further along than the beginning. Amazing and sad at the same time.
Wow, it really is amazing how this tragedy has touched so many people’s hearts. We’re all virtual strangers and yet we all share the common thread of compassion, wanting justice for two innocent girl and peace for their families.
I’ve learned so much and I hope in time all of the efforts and dedication by everyone here will in some way help in solving this heinous crime. I know that Abigail and Liberty are counting on us.
 
Hmm-- I dont ever remember that being said about "it's him again" Do you have a link to that??
I do remember BP in her Q and A and Anna mentioning about the "creepy guy" but no mention of seeing him "again" or that they saw him before.

Interesting and I would like to read/hear this part.
TIA
It will take me a bit to find it but I'll look. I think it was one of the tv shows or maybe a podcast that Kelsi was on.
 
Yes, we apparently have witnesses, plural, who saw the killer that day. But from all we've been told no one saw the girls. I suppose that is possible. If that car parked at the CPS building from approx. noon to 5 PM, maybe he was there longer than Abigail and Liberty. They were dropped off sometime around 1PM and had a Snapchat on the bridge about an hour later. Still, I find it odd that he was seen and by more than one person and NO ONE saw the girls. Or did the witnesses really see the killer? Or if the witnesses saw the 'killer' at different locations at different times, did they not all see the same person?

I'm having a lot of doubts about Sketch #1, Sketch #2 or that it is a combination of both. I'm having doubts that DNA is going to lead to the killer. That video by Liberty is about the only thing I place any trust in now.

Here is the thing about "eyewitness" testimony: It is not as reliable as many people think.

If people were really honest with themselves, they would admit that even if they had been on the Monon High Bridge trail around the same time as the girls were murdered and the killer walked past them, they probably would not have noticed either.

If you were asked to describe the person in front of you at the store today, could you do it? Could you give an honest factual description if the person was a complete stranger and they walked past you once.

In my opinion, this is why Abigail Williams and Liberty German's case is not solved. The eyewitnesses in this case think they saw the person from the video. If they did see this person, their description from memory has not been very helpful. I can only imagine how many "tips" are from people like us who think either based on the video or one of the sketches that we have seen bridge guy too. LE has to figure out which ones seem genuine and which ones are your average online sleuth trying to be the police detective.

In my opinion, I think the killer in this case will end up being much older and looking completely different from that second sketch released in April 2019. Then when his face is revealed it will be one of those wow moments when everyone realizes why it was so hard to find him in the first place. This is assuming that the killer is still alive too.

In my opinion, the case went awry when LE released that second sketch at the April 2019 press conference. In my opinion, once that 2nd sketch was released, what it said was that they had moved the video to the back of the information or maybe given up on it altogether.
 
Here is the thing about "eyewitness" testimony: It is not as reliable as many people think.

If people were really honest with themselves, they would admit that even if they had been on the Monon High Bridge trail around the same time as the girls were murdered and the killer walked past them, they probably would not have noticed either.

If you were asked to describe the person in front of you at the store today, could you do it? Could you give an honest factual description if the person was a complete stranger and they walked past you once.

In my opinion, this is why Abigail Williams and Liberty German's case is not solved. The eyewitnesses in this case think they saw the person from the video. If they did see this person, their description from memory has not been very helpful. I can only imagine how many "tips" are from people like us who think either based on the video or one of the sketches that we have seen bridge guy too. LE has to figure out which ones seem genuine and which ones are your average online sleuth trying to be the police detective.

In my opinion, I think the killer in this case will end up being much older and looking completely different from that second sketch released in April 2019. Then when his face is revealed it will be one of those wow moments when everyone realizes why it was so hard to find him in the first place. This is assuming that the killer is still alive too.

In my opinion, the case went awry when LE released that second sketch at the April 2019 press conference. In my opinion, once that 2nd sketch was released, what it said was that they had moved the video to the back of the information or maybe given up on it altogether.
I agree with you that this case went awry with the second-released sketch in 2019. I sound like a broken record since the beginning, but the fact remains we have ACTUAL video of the killer and ACTUAL audio of his voice. People have been identified by far less clear photos (black and white long shots from a security camera, with person not facing camera). Either BG has absolutely no contact with the human race, or someone is reluctant to identify him. The girls deserve justice, and I really hope that someone, somewhere takes on this case and is given access to everything collected so far. I believe the evidence I there, but the current LE has missed it.
 
The judge that sentenced Ron L. was a tweeking drug addict stalking a teen prostitute.

The Sheriff didn't have to treat him that way.
I think I read your comment incorrectly. If so please advise.

I read that this judge the judge that put RL away, that he (the judge) was a tweaking drug addiction stalking
I think he's older. His voice, especially, sounds to me like that of an older man.
ITAabout the sound of his voice! IMHAspieO.
Do you think BG acted alone?
 
Here is the thing about "eyewitness" testimony: It is not as reliable as many people think.

If people were really honest with themselves, they would admit that even if they had been on the Monon High Bridge trail around the same time as the girls were murdered and the killer walked past them, they probably would not have noticed either.

If you were asked to describe the person in front of you at the store today, could you do it? Could you give an honest factual description if the person was a complete stranger and they walked past you once.

In my opinion, this is why Abigail Williams and Liberty German's case is not solved. The eyewitnesses in this case think they saw the person from the video. If they did see this person, their description from memory has not been very helpful. I can only imagine how many "tips" are from people like us who think either based on the video or one of the sketches that we have seen bridge guy too. LE has to figure out which ones seem genuine and which ones are your average online sleuth trying to be the police detective.

In my opinion, I think the killer in this case will end up being much older and looking completely different from that second sketch released in April 2019. Then when his face is revealed it will be one of those wow moments when everyone realizes why it was so hard to find him in the first place. This is assuming that the killer is still alive too.

In my opinion, the case went awry when LE released that second sketch at the April 2019 press conference. In my opinion, once that 2nd sketch was released, what it said was that they had moved the video to the back of the information or maybe given up on it altogether.
2 thoughts here
One--- witnessess may have thought they saw BG but in reality, was NOT BG.
TWO-- while I also first thought the sketch released at 2019 presser meant that LE did NOT have a clue, after reading family news, youtubes, etc... they all said, it was for a reason and they have faith.

So--- if it was for a reason to bring out sketch #2, which I thought was a bunch of baloney when watching and a bit of a shock, I want to believe the families that is was for "a reason".
What that reason is...I have no idea because, honestly, sketch #2 does not look like BG on the bridge.
So--I am back to being confused again. LOL
JMO
 
I think I read your comment incorrectly. If so please advise.

I read that this judge the judge that put RL away, that he (the judge) was a tweaking drug addiction stalking

ITAabout the sound of his voice! IMHAspieO.
Do you think BG acted alone?
Well, I am not @Boxer but
that is correct

The judge was a tweaking judge stalking and soliciting sex on the side.
 
So many of us are confused because YBG doesn’t look like the video of BG. If the general public isn’t sure who they want tips about, how confident would you be calling the tip line?

Seriously, the 2nd sketch looks nothing like the guy in the video. I would be pretty hesitant to tip in someone who I knew and loved if they were the sketch, because why risk screwing up someone’s life when you know he’s not the one in the video?

Look at how many men in Delphi are living under the suspicion of being BG. How many have dealt with accusations and finger pointing for murdering two children! I wouldn’t want to add to that unless I knew 100% that they killed the girls, and they admitted to me.
 
So many of us are confused because YBG doesn’t look like the video of BG. If the general public isn’t sure who they want tips about, how confident would you be calling the tip line?

Seriously, the 2nd sketch looks nothing like the guy in the video. I would be pretty hesitant to tip in someone who I knew and loved if they were the sketch, because why risk screwing up someone’s life when you know he’s not the one in the video?

Look at how many men in Delphi are living under the suspicion of being BG. How many have dealt with accusations and finger pointing for murdering two children! I wouldn’t want to add to that unless I knew 100% that they killed the girls, and they admitted to me.
TRUTH !!!

I think I know way more than I want to know about the men in Delphi. JMO

So many of them look like BG and have had to deal with accusations, rumors and had their lives spilled out in public.

BUT-- if it helps to catch BG, then if I were LE, I would still welcome any tip offered and check it out. IMO

It is a catch all-- I would never want to ruin an innocent man's life but we also have a killer wandering around that needs to be caught

Justice for Libby and Abby
 
MOO about this case and the monster on the bridge, BG.

I know that I'm not saying anything new, but I've followed this case on and off but only recently made an account here, and I wanted to sort of compile all my thoughts on this case after going over some of the old threads.

IMO he is not a shut-in, meth addicted SO with crippling self esteem issues. If he was any of the local "usual suspects" I believe LE would have already got him. I believe he is a narcissist, any crippling self-esteem issues disguised from the world under a mask of a normal person, or at least someone who is confident with giving an air of authority in his day-to-day life. He might be a coach, outdoorsman, former military, firefighter, security guard, or has done that or similar at some point in the past. He is probably able to keep up appearances of a level of normalcy, holding a job and maybe even having a "normal" family life despite red flags for those around him. I doubt those around him know of his activities and are covering for him, more likely they have no idea, or have some red flags about his general behavior but nothing solid to make them think he is BG.
I believe you can pick up on this in the way he approached the girls, confident in his plan, and gave a short simple order to them. It sounds to my ear the way a coach or even parent (I shudder at that thought) would speak to teens - not raising his voice or repeating himself, just expecting them to obey, and using the word "guys" in a way that to me hints at familiarity, even if they didn't know him. That alone may have been a factor in how he was able to control the two initially, with the gun lending dangerous weight. I think Libby and Abby may have picked up on red flags seeing him before and when he approached them, but his confidence, and then the gun, meant he had control of the situation before any alarm bells could go off/sink in. I think he displays planning and efficient use of time that hint at being a motivated, pre-planned killer going after a random target, rather than someone who simply seized on an opportunity they could not resist. That is not to say I think he stalked the girls beforehand or lured them there, but I think the location was chosen and he "took what he could get" in a similar way to Israel Keyes. IMO he planned and created the trap, Abby and Libby were just the ones with the horrible luck to be caught in it. I think he dressed for spending some time in the elements to lie in wait, brought a kill kit along that day, and knew the trails well enough to know which ones lead where so he could be reasonably sure he was alone with his victims. I do not think there was a car down below; I think the down the hill, out of view along the creek was always his intended second location.

I also believe he is not necessarily local to Delphi, but comfortable with the area and probably the kind of guy that spends a lot of time outdoors or travelling around communities (again, possibly former military or being very into the outdoors, hunting, camping, or driving a lot through rural areas for his job). My own father is like that and my family often jokes that you could drive him blindfolded to any random spot in our state, drop him off and he would be able to tell you exactly where you are. There are a LOT of men like this in the mid-west and I personally don't think he would really stick out to people if he looked typical, even in a small town like Delphi.

I think if he has a prior record it is probably not strikingly similar - maybe previous violence toward women but not minors, or just a relatively innocuous criminal record. LE may have DNA tied to another case but not a known individual at this time. (I really hope they simply have DNA of an unknown individual, possibly tied to another crime, rather than none or a bad sample).

I fear the lack of an obvious record, being not-quite-local, and choosing victims randomly/unconnected to himself makes it a lot harder to find whoever did this.

Other random observations and thoughts:
Catfishing is a theory I've always personally thought is quite unlikely, but I would like to hear others thoughts on why they disagree.
I could see him lashing out from a narcissistic injury but I believe in that case, its likely the injury came from someone else and his lashing out at Libby and Abby was randomly chosen.

I think BG may be left handed both from what appears to be the imprint of a concealed gun in the right side of his jacket in the images and from what I think looks like a watch on his right wrist.

I agree with the profiles that say he is a visually oriented individual. I don't think he is a voice actor, announcer or anything like others have suggested, but has a typical regional accent and demeanor to many men in that area. If he does have a job or role in the community where he uses his voice (I'm forgetting the source/quote with a LEO or family member who say they think they may be familiar with the voice?), maybe a member of the umpire's league for school ballgames in the area. That would have him visiting a lot of the small towns in the region and potentially also knowing when school is out, as well as being around kids like Abby and Libby but in a less well-known and less identifiable role as a coach would be.

He probably does read about the case and possibly even comment. I can't see a narcissist who would leave signatures and be confident in his own intelligence (whether that is founded or, more likely, not) being able to resist doing so over the years this case has been getting attention. For the record I don't think he's all that smart, just lucky, so far, and slightly better at planning than some of the POI commonly mentioned in this case would be. CE is one that gave me pause for a long time though, and I still can't shake him from my mind as a possibility. And I don't discount him just because LE say they cannot definitely tie him to the area. He is a dead ringer for that first sketch IMO.

Personally I just don't see the BG in the photos/video in that second sketch, but that might just be chalked up to the witness and artist, who knows. I'd be shocked if BG looks more like the second sketch than the first. I also think he is far closer to 40 (or even 50+) than 18, to put it mildly. Everything about that video, and all the other details, seems like a middle aged or older man to me.

I hope that this year, they might assign a someone new to go over old evidence and tips from a fresh perspective and consider everything, even if it was discounted.

I know one thing with absolute certainty. It's been too long for these families without justice, the community living in fear, and I hope that no matter if I'm right or totally off base, we have our answers soon. Abby and Libby should be going to college or starting their young adult lives now, and all that was stolen by this monster. I doubt he is capable of remorse but I hope he fears that knock on the door every single moment.
 
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