Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

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I'm apologizing a lot today but again - sorry if my post came off as a refutation of something you specifically said (it wasn't meant to be that, but a jumping-off point into the discussion). Sometimes in the past when we discussed KAK's "sharing," speculation came up - from various posters - that maybe KAK isn't the one who committed the murders, but he knows who did. I've seen speculation that maybe, for example, it's JBC, who doesn't have many apparent connections to KAK but who may or may not have known the same local barber; or, maybe it's a total stranger he has exchanged illicit material with, so while he "knows" who used the account, he doesn't know this person's real identity. So, I wasn't trying to disagree with anything to do with him sharing in general but, in my opinion, it's someone closer to him than those two ideas that always seem to come up.
Thanks for replying, Yemelyan. Being dismissive didn't seem characteristic of you, so I'm glad you clarified.

I hope you're right (that KAK knows who it is) and I hope KAK offers up the evidence to prove it and that whatever that is, it is the critical missing piece that finally results in airtight charges and a prosecution.

I am bolstered in that hope by the persistent river searches and the confidence that seems apparent in DC's more recent interviews (as mentioned by @UnapologeticallyAspie). I earnestly pray to God that LE manage to find what they are searching for.
 
Thanks for replying, Yemelyan. Being dismissive didn't seem characteristic of you, so I'm glad you clarified.

I hope you're right (that KAK knows who it is) and I hope KAK offers up the evidence to prove it and that whatever that is, it is the critical missing piece that finally results in airtight charges and a prosecution.

I am bolstered in that hope by the persistent river searches and the confidence that seems apparent in DC's more recent interviews (as mentioned by @UnapologeticallyAspie). I earnestly pray to God that LE manage to find what they are searching for.
I think that KAK will only offer up evidence if there’s something in it for him. Something significant, IMO.

(Also I’m right there with you Diddian. Whenever two or more are gathered together, He is there in our midst.)
 
Just for the record, I (the previous poster who speculated...) did not suggest he shared with "strangers he met on the internet or people he knows from the barber shop." I suggested he may have shared with recurring clientele. These would be people who shared illicit material with each other over the internet, but we don't know how they met.

Their families may have been friends for generations (and its only in the latter ones that the rot has set in), they may have met and learned about shared tastes for illicit and illegal materials while attending court-ordered rehab at the same place, or they may have met and developed a limited relationship over the internet (or dark web).

I agree it would be extraordinarily risky for KAK to grant such a relative stranger as someone with whom he had a limited relationship over the internet access to the accounts he had created and worked and victims and false personas he had cultivated. But KAK, while crafty and manipulative, doesn't strike me as the brightest bulb in the box and he appears to generate his income from these activities. So, the dim bulb may have further dimmed given the right price. And his "client" may have used the access to arrange a double-murder.

Personally, if this is what happened, I'd charge KAK with conspiracy to murder (or whatever the IN equivalent is) because even a dim bulb should have the wits to know that granting access to predators (and that is what these people are) to interact with his cultivated CSAM victims without limits was the equivalent of personally introducing them to a predator they had the false impression they could trust with the knowledge that you have already removed every element of security those children had to protect them.
The only problem with this theory (other than KAK risking being locked out of his accounts) is that if he was selling access to other people, their IP addresses and devices would have been recorded logging into the account. If we believe what was said in the interrogation, the only devices that logged into the account were ones found in KAK/TK's house. So, if someone else was using the account, they were doing it by coming over to KAK's house and using one of his phones.
 
Thanks for replying, Yemelyan. Being dismissive didn't seem characteristic of you, so I'm glad you clarified.

I hope you're right (that KAK knows who it is) and I hope KAK offers up the evidence to prove it and that whatever that is, it is the critical missing piece that finally results in airtight charges and a prosecution.

I am bolstered in that hope by the persistent river searches and the confidence that seems apparent in DC's more recent interviews (as mentioned by @UnapologeticallyAspie). I earnestly pray to God that LE manage to find what they are searching for.

No, not at all trying to be dismissive. Just poor at communicating!

And absolutely hoping that if KAK's involved, and/or if he has information that could bring this to a close, LE is able to get those pieces in such a way that they can build a strong case for how this happened. I'm hopeful that we may hear something in MSM re: the river searches soon.
 
Most such persons admitting someone to their CSAM group, instead of outright selling access, will insist that the new person make some photo contributions - with or without money changing hands. It serves a number of purposes - it expands their 'portfolio' and that person is now just as guilty as they are. In addition, it is an attempt to weed out LE trying infiltrate their group although I wouldn't doubt LE has a few ways around that obstacle.

I don't see it as likely that KAK is making an outright sale for strictly cash to another pedophile or someone claiming to be one. I say 'likely' because KAK doesn't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer and criminals will do dumb things. But if this is what KAK was doing, LE should have some means to track down this person or persons electronically.
 
Most such persons admitting someone to their CSAM group, instead of outright selling access, will insist that the new person make some photo contributions - with or without money changing hands. It serves a number of purposes - it expands their 'portfolio' and that person is now just as guilty as they are. In addition, it is an attempt to weed out LE trying infiltrate their group although I wouldn't doubt LE has a few ways around that obstacle.

I don't see it as likely that KAK is making an outright sale for strictly cash to another pedophile or someone claiming to be one. I say 'likely' because KAK doesn't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer and criminals will do dumb things. But if this is what KAK was doing, LE should have some means to track down this person or persons electronically.
I agree with you about his intellectuality. I wonder if he’s possibly apart of a team. One being more intellectually sound and himself.

I don’t know about you but I, IMHO, can see this being a good possibility. Perhaps with someone close to him.
 
I sense we are going to have another week of imposed silence and zero announcements. If a piece of evidence has been recovered, whether metallurgic or electronic, it is going to go through the most rigorous screening ever. (No one is going to make any "unintentional" mistakes this time.) At one time, some proposed the Wabash search was a training exercise...so with flashlight in hand I went down that rabbit hole. And guess what? In the Lorenzen Wright (RIP young man) murder investigation. LE having received info from an inmate who wanted "to bargain," revealed one of the murder weapons was thrown into a lake in neighboring Mississippi. The FBI under the guise of a training operation, not wanting to alert any of the co-conspirators, spent 5 days looking for the weapon.
(I'll be watching for "training operations" from now on.;))
And the FBI on the scene so quickly? I found this: The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child “of tender years,” even though there is no known interstate aspect.
The second BG told the girls "down the hill" and the L's voice "he's got a gun... definitely met the definition of kidnapping. IMO. However, I have not found a guideline/ chronological age for "of tender years."
***The firearm used to murder Lorenzen was found 7 years after his death, in a lake.
 
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I sense we are going to have another week of imposed silence and zero announcements. If a piece of evidence has been recovered, whether metallurgic or electronic, it is going to go through the most rigorous screening ever. (No one is going to make any "unintentional" mistakes this time.) At one time, some proposed the Wabash search was a training exercise...so with flashlight in hand I went down that rabbit hole. And guess what? In the Lorenzen Wright (RIP young man) murder investigation. LE having received info from an inmate who wanted "to bargain," revealed one of the murder weapons was thrown into a lake in neighboring Mississippi. The FBI under the guise of a training operation, not wanting to alert any of the co-conspirators, spent 5 days looking for the weapon.
(I'll be watching for "training operations" from now on.;))
And the FBI on the scene so quickly? I found this: The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child “of tender years,” even though there is no known interstate aspect.
The second BG told the girls "down the hill" and the L's voice "he's got a gun... definitely met the definition of kidnapping. IMO. However, I have not found a guideline/ chronological age for "of tender years."

Tender years is generally defined as age 12 and under, though they will monitor and assist with the disappearances of older children as well: If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped, but no interstate transportation is known, will the FBI begin an investigation? | Federal Bureau of Investigation.
 
The Murder Sheet released a new episode this week, a discussion with two members of LE who head up Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) investigations in their metropolitan jurisdictions. Since the "anthony shots" ask was linked to the Delphi tipline by the ISP, I think it's informative to hear what ICAC experts have to say about the type of people who commit that type of crime, so I'd recommend listening to the episode whether or not you think KAK in particular is involved.

Some interesting things they mentioned that could apply to why the CSAM investigation against KAK took so long -

ICAC crimes are more prolific than most people could ever guess. Departments could work non-stop 24/7 and still not have enough time to work all the cases that are out there. LE prioritizes "producers" of child exploitation materials over people who are "only" trading it. Their top priority is people creating it with, or having access to, a live child.

These investigations produce so much data that it's almost impossible for investigators and prosecutors to get a handle on all of it, and it takes a really long time to extract the data - they mentioned that it's particularly challenging when more than one device is involved. Just thinking about how many devices KAK had...

After all the recoverable data is extracted, the investigations are typically very prolonged. Investigators have to follow each thread of data to individual victims and individual charges.

For prosecutors, this type of case can be more difficult to prosecute - there is a need to get things "right." One investigator said, "We work harder to disprove our case than we do to prove our case" before taking it to trial.

Then there was an interesting discussion of motivations of ICAC offenders. Evidently it's not that typical for people who engage in this type of internet crime to then cross over to "hands on" crime (in the opinion of the LE they interviewed). Offenders usually had very complex multifactorial reasons for why they look at the material that they do, and not all of these reasons were sexual. Most of the offenders when interviewed engaged in "minimizing" their crimes; others used "some other guy did it" type of defenses. "My friend had my phone" is evidently a very common excuse. However, the LE on the podcast said that "some other guy did it" is usually very easily disproved by the forensic evidence on the devices.

They did talk a bit about interviewing ICAC offenders and how the interview can go differently depending on how much information the investigators already have. They said that an in depth confession is usually rare among this type of criminal. They usually only give out what they are asked about and so it can be just the tip of the iceberg.

I actually only listened to part of the episode so far so there's much more of interest that potentially pertains to Delphi, you can listen here: Murder Sheet
 
Random, but I had never seen this description of BG before. It's DC speaking on 2/24/17.

FBI releases list of behavioral clues to help track down suspect in murders of teens near Indiana trail

"Maybe it's his jeans," he added. "Maybe it's his jacket or his sweatshirt. Maybe it's his shirttail. Maybe it's his posture. Maybe it's the right hand in his pocket."
What the LE tells us to look for in the article:
  • Changes in their daily routines, including modified sleep patterns
  • Increased use of alcohol or drugs
  • Cleaned or disposed of clothing and / or shoes that might have been worn on Feb. 13
  • Missed work or other engagements
  • Anxiety, nervousness or irritability
  • Excessive attention to the investigation, media coverage or lengthy discussions related to the murders
I can see the third and last with this guy. I don't see this guy losing a lot of sleep NOW. As I've said before this guy probably sits in his beanbag chair and in his underwear eating Cheeto's and laughing at the reports on the case. I have no doubt LE has spoken to him and appeared to move on for whatever reason that SEEMED to be valid at the time. Because of that aspect and who he is he could probably care less about LE knows. After 5+ years it is entertainment to this psychopath.
 
I'm apologizing a lot today but again - sorry if my post came off as a refutation of something you specifically said (it wasn't meant to be that, but a jumping-off point into the discussion). Sometimes in the past when we discussed KAK's "sharing," speculation came up - from various posters - that maybe KAK isn't the one who committed the murders, but he knows who did. I've seen speculation that maybe, for example, it's JBC, who doesn't have many apparent connections to KAK but who may or may not have known the same local barber; or, maybe it's a total stranger he has exchanged illicit material with, so while he "knows" who used the account, he doesn't know this person's real identity. So, I wasn't trying to disagree with anything to do with him sharing in general but, in my opinion, it's someone closer to him than those two ideas that always seem to come up.
Makes you wonder who friend #1& 2 are, for sure. the K's and the C's have a couple of towns in common...Peru and Young America (also called part of Galveston sometimes, I know not why)
 
ICAC crimes are more prolific than most people could ever guess. Departments could work non-stop 24/7 and still not have enough time to work all the cases that are out there.
RSBM
I instantly thought of an episode on Criminal Minds,P911. (Season 2, episode 2).
I vividly remember this episode about online pedophiles who preyed on children.
In 2006 when I watched this episode I was shocked and appalled.
Can you (not you specifically Yemelyan) imagine how many more predators there are naw that we, the public, has access to multiple SM outlets and various chat apps, etc.
It’s no wonder why this case is taking so long to bring justice to Abby and Libby.
As much as I want to see an arrest this year I’m more than content to wait if it means taking down an entire ring.

mOo

Edit to Add: Yem, you are a gem! I appreciate all of your posts insightful posts.
 
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Just my observation: people with prior experience at banking service or mortgage are very good at data mining.

So, a timid clerk working at a local bank branch might, theoretically, also have a possibility of getting access to someone’s email, cellphone, etc.
 
RSBM
I instantly thought of an episode on Criminal Minds,P911. (Season 2, episode 2).
I vividly remember this episode about online pedophiles who preyed on children.
In 2006 when I watched this episode I was shocked and appalled.
Can you (not you specifically Yemelyan) imagine how many more predators there are naw that we, the public, has access to multiple SM outlets and various chat apps, etc.
It’s no wonder why this case is taking so long to bring justice to Abby and Libby.
As much as I want to see an arrest this year I’m more than content to wait if it means taking down an entire ring.

mOo

Edit to Add: Yem, you are a gem! I appreciate all of your posts insightful posts.

Thank you, you're very kind to say.

One expert on the podcast has an interesting take on this, he said that the exploitation crimes against children are so prolific that every single one of us personally knows both 1. Someone who has been exploited and 2. Someone who is seeking out this type of material online and has successfully hidden this secret so far. These people are in our circles of friends, coworkers, neighbors, and family - we just don't know who they are. Very sobering thought.
 
This short article appeared in the news this morning. Most is a re-hash of what we already know but I did find this interesting..."up the river" I thought they were searching from the bridge downstream. Is that an error?

Observers say the search started right at the Nickel Plate bridge in Peru and has progressed about 400 yards up the river in the last month.
 
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