Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

[Jabarn]

I don’t really know other than if he had another set of clothing underneath, he might’ve done so to look like a different person.

There’s not much discussion about how the vehicle LE believes he drove fits into the timeline. If he didn’t drive, how did he leave? Did he live within walking distance, but then why drive?

Another thing - According to the ISP Press Release the girls were murdered within minutes of Libby’s audio, but then why was the car apparently parked there until 5pm? By 5pm family members had already arrived and began searching iirc and the girls disappearance was reported at 5:30pm. Was he watching from a distance as their concern heightened? Absolutely disgusting to even contemplate...

My thinking after the presser is that there is a higher degree of likelihood he drove himself to the area than maybe was thought two years ago. I thought he was likely a transient without a car, but this latest presser has me rethinking.

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

LE has stated that the first sketch is not the killer. I would assume that they have good reason to say this.

But I still think it’s important. It could still be connected to the killer.

 

[LogicalMan]

Co-sign everything you just said. I in no way think this dude is a criminal mastermind. I think he got lucky. I think he may have had plans to take the girls somewhere else, or to sexually assault them, but when they fought back or ran he killed them. I think their deaths were quick and happened not long after they went down the hill. I also think that Abby and Libby were chosen at random. I don't think he overheard their conversation somewhere or knew that they were going to be there. I think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and he underestimated how easily it would be to attack two young girls.

I don’t think it was random, I think he picked what he felt he could control. 2 young girls are much easier to control than say, a mature woman who would probably not follow directions. Or a male that would probably put up a huge fight.

BG knew what he was doing and he came prepared to do it. I agree that he may not have seen them before, but they fit the profile he was looking for.

 

[ab01]

I don’t really know other than if he had another set of clothing underneath, he might’ve done so to look like a different person.

There’s not much discussion about how the vehicle LE believes he drove fits into the timeline. If he didn’t drive, how did he leave? Did he live within walking distance, but then why drive?

Another thing - According to the ISP Press Release the girls were murdered within minutes of Libby’s audio, but then why was the car apparently parked there until 5pm? By 5pm family members had already arrived and began searching iirc and the girls disappearance was reported at 5:30pm. Was he casually watching from a distance as their concern heightened? Absolutely disgusting to even contemplate...

I think LE likely were possibly meaning that it was parked there sometime between the hours of 12-5. JMO

And I'm not sure if thats what they meant why they didn't word it differently.

Maybe bc it doesn't matter bc if you know it was there between that time then it doesn't really have to be dependent on someone being mistaken about an exact time....MOO

 

[mtnlites]

Agreed. And besides all that, if it were my loved ones, I wouldn't want any more details out there than necessary to catch the killer.

IMO, it's disrespectful to insist on having access to horrible things simply to satisfy our own curiosity.

Honestly, if LE released all the recordings, we may very well wish they hadn't. Then we'd be degrading them for that decision.

Especially if the rest of the audio is nothing but the sounds of terror. That would probably not be helpful to the people in BG's life and it certainly wouldn't be helpful for strangers like us.

 

[LostInCarcosa]

But I still think it’s important. It could still be connected to the killer.

As far as we have any reason to believe, law enforcement disagrees. To the point where they're telling everybody to disregard the first sketch.

Edited to add: that is of course my read on the situation. If I'm wrong, someone please let me know!

 

[Inthedetails]

Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!

Debunked and dismissed.

imo

 

[CSIDreamer]

Carter indicated that first released sketch, OBG, was now secondary. Have we discussed that. Even if LE has come out to say new released sketch, YBG, is the guy in the video and is the person suspected of murdering the girls. They are telling us OBG is not a POI at this time. I get wanting people to focus on new released YBG sketch. I'm not sure that the, OBG, sketch is not going to play into this somewhere even if it turns out that sketch was a red herring to throw off LE.

They've said ignore jaunty bridge guy. Forget his name, forget his face.

 

[RedBeard]

Yes totally agree. I’m just assuming knife, brutal, and a lot of blood. I guess I shouldn’t assume anything I know what it means to *advertiser censored*-u-me

It's possible, you aren't wrong to take that out of it. It's hard to really say. I agree its a distinct possibility. This guy could have been sloppy and just got lucky. There is something hindering the DNA aspect.

 

[mtnlites]

Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!

People have seen everything in these photos, including little dogs dangling off the side of the bridge (or stuffed in BG's coat). Several people swear that there are 11 people hiding in the trees in the picture of Abby on the bridge. I know what you're talking about, though. He's meant to be on our right. Someone actually studied that and did measurements on the tree in the image and found that he'd have to have been something like 11 ft tall for that to be him.

 

[Quinquin]

I don't think the sexual/pedophile angle should be thrown out even if the girls were not sexually assaulted during the attack. He could have underestimated the girls and then got spooked by something so that he did not have the time to carry out his original intent which could have been sexually driven. He could have killed them out of fear or panic of being caught. I'm just throwing this out there as a possibility.

 

[TL4S]

I don’t really know other than if he had another set of clothing underneath, he might’ve done so to look like a different person.

There’s not much discussion about how the vehicle LE believes he drove fits into the timeline. If he didn’t drive, how did he leave? Did he live within walking distance, but then why drive?

Another thing - According to the ISP Press Release the girls were murdered within minutes of Libby’s audio, but then why was the car apparently parked there until 5pm? It was just after 3pm when Libby’s dad came to pick up the girls. By 5pm other family members who were alerted had already arrived and began searching iirc and the girls disappearance was reported at 5:30pm. Was he casually watching from a distance as their concern heightened? Absolutely disgusting to even contemplate...

With the round figures of 12-5, I guess I wondered if they maybe opened up a couple hour window on either side of the crime. Especially if they don't know exactly how long the car was there? Just a thought.

 

[Sunny123]

Yeah, if thi

I agree.

If for some reason he did know, he may have forgotten.

A double murder in broad daylight is an inherently chaotic event.

In his rush to get out of there, he could have neglected to take the phone.

My guess though, is that he never saw it.[/

I think this guy is disorganized, based on exactly what you say: “He took a big chance.”

An attack on two teenage girls in broad daylight, is the definition of reckless and brazen.

I think this would have been over quickly, and likely included a great deal of violence.

This is a hallmark of disorganized offenders.

He couldn’t use wit and charm to get what what he wanted; he needed to use fear and force (perhaps a weapon), to gain compliance.

A more organized offender wouldn’t take these risks, or have to commit a crime this way.

I don’t think there was much planning here, or that he selected these girls out in advance.

He’s probably not smart enough for that.

I think this was fairly spontaneous, as he likely has poor self control.

He’s not some criminal mastermind, rather, he’s one lucky SOB.

I agree with this, and feel he may have made mistakes due to his inexperience. Also, if this was his first murder, he was probably not used to the feelings the attack triggered, and may even have been consumed with fear, or overwhelmed with excitement. This may have caused him to miss things, such as the phone, which a more organized or experienced killer would have noticed. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

I don’t think it was random, I think he picked what he felt he could control. 2 young girls are much easier to control than say, a mature woman who would probably not follow directions. Or a male that would probably put up a huge fight.

BG knew what he was doing and he came prepared to do it. I agree that he may not have seen them before, but they fit the profile he was looking for.

When I say "random" I mean in the sense that Abby and Libby were not chosen prior to their trip to the park. They were random in that he did not know them.

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

I don’t think it was random, I think he picked what he felt he could control. 2 young girls are much easier to control than say, a mature woman who would probably not follow directions. Or a male that would probably put up a huge fight.

BG knew what he was doing and he came prepared to do it. I agree that he may not have seen them before, but they fit the profile he was looking for.

Yep. I agree.

It’s like rapists that lurk around areas where women are prone to go walking/jogging. He was there that day to attack someone.

He was in an isolated area and had time to access the area. He was able to watch the girls and make sure nobody else was around before he attacked.

If it wasn’t those two girls, it would have been someone else that day.

 

[MassGuy]

But what if he's not a nerdy kid? What if he is a completely normal looking guy with a baby face, fat cheeks, styled haircut, normal intelligence with friends coming out of his ears? What if he's somewhat of a people person who easily conversed with everyone including early teen girls? What if our girls thought him "kinda cute" because he was nice? What if Libby took his picture not because he was nerdy, but well, you know, just because she was an early teen girl and he appeared in his late teens?

Look, I don't even know that I agree with what I just wrote. I'm just thinking like a very naive and idealistic teenage girl. But again, I go back to the presser. There's a reason why this guy is "hiding in plain site" playing with power, with "maybe this much of a conscience left". There was a reason why Libby and Abby became "little girls" during the presser and why Carter said perhaps he had "told someone(s)". I'm wondering if after the last big cases I've followed if we aren't once again, dealing with a wonderfully social, outgoing, charming narcissist, who is safe to do what they do because, well, they are superior, doncha know? Now, go listen to the almost calm, "Guys-down the hill".
IMHO ONLY!

I don’t think he’s a person like that (charming, extroverted, friendly), because of previous crimes with the elements present here.

If we had more information, I think the picture of him would be a lot clearer.

But crimes like this, tend to involve people with certain characteristics.

That’s why I think he is a loner who is not all that bright. I doubt he’s ever had a normal relationship either.

I don’t think this guy is a respected member of the community, not because someone like that can’t be a killer, but because I wouldn’t expect someone like that to commit a crime in this way.

I just wish we had more (although I understand why we don’t).

 

[Boxer]

I'm so confused. The podcast someone posted earlier (best case worst case) was a room of fbi agents talking about the case and the new developments. The said multiple times that the first sketch released to the public turned out to be that of a sex offender that was arrested recently and cleared off the delphi case. Where did this information come from? I haven't seen this reported anywhere else... Have any of y'all?

MOO if true, then they actually found the man from trail that day that witnesses described and was depicted the OBG sketch


If the found that specific man, then he must have been on the MHB trail that day.
My question is how would they clear him?
DNA and a polygraph?

Of course it would be extremely disappointing for LE and family to finally the guy on the flyer and -- and then discover he is 100% certainty that he not the killer.
However it also stops a nonproductive line of investigation. And sets course to a better one.
MOO if they found OBG, they will
find YBG.

 

[TL4S]

Especially if the rest of the audio is nothing but the sounds of terror. That would probably not be helpful to the people in BG's life and it certainly wouldn't be helpful for strangers like us.

Exactly. Nor would it be helpful to the families, who are also victims.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!

Gray Hughes has made a really great u-tube video which debunks this theory.
I don't know if linking it is permitted but a google search should turn it up.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Hi everyone,
I’m very new to this site (but have followed this case carefully in the media since beginning-have kiddos close to this age).

I’m sorry to ask a question that might already have been discussed to death but:
I’ve seen the argument that BG can be seen hiding deep in the background in the trees in the image of Abby on the bridge. I can’t figure out how to find or search this, but saw someone had blown it up and it seemed possible. Do any of you believe this, or has this been dismissed? Thank you!

It has been dismissed. Welcome!