Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Falling Down]

Possibly discussed previously (this case is hard to keep up with), but regarding the audio release I’m not so sure that the words are in sequential order; meaning that “guys” may not have preceded the “down the hill” portion which might explain the vast difference in the sound of voice. Any thoughts/opinions?

I agree, and again it could be a ploy by LE. The "guys" part they held on to as long as the new (old) sketch, so anything is possible IMO.

"Guys" may not even be from :Libby's phone, did LE confirm that portion is from the phone? I don't remember from the PC if Doug Carter mentioned that all of the audio is from Libby's phone. Not trying to start any weird rumors or conspiracy stuff on here, I'm just curious if the "guys" part is actually from Libby's phone. I think it's a serious and important question.

JMO

 

[travelbug]

This guy had limited time, and was on a mission.

He’s lucky he wasn’t spotted, as committing a crime like this in broad daylight, is as stupid as it is evil.

It’s hard enough to control and murder two teenage girls, let alone video the thing.

That's why I've hesitated to post that idea. But, my thought was the murder was incidental and capturing a video memory was the goal either for personal use or to share, i.e. a "snuff film".

 

[MassGuy]

That's why I've hesitated to post that idea. But, my thought was the murder was incidental and capturing a video memory was the goal either for personal use or to share, i.e. a "snuff film".

That happens, but usually indoors.

Those killers tend to be more organized than what I think this guy is.

He just didn’t have that kind of time, and isn’t that type of killer.

 

[IronOrchid]

That's why I've hesitated to post that idea. But, my thought was the murder was incidental and capturing a video memory was the goal either for personal use or to share, i.e. a "snuff film".

It's unpopular here from what I have seen, but I lean towards the crime of opportunity/ undiscovered motive set myself. A snuff film seems very unlikely. Know why anything from snuff *advertiser censored* and even basic *advertiser censored* is captured indoors? Because even the lowest cameraman knows filming outside is money in editing.

 

[margarita25]

I was just thinking about different ways that the use of “guys” could have come into play, and not necessarily as a direct command.

What I mean is this. ARS told Jessica that if she complied she would be okay; he also lied to her when she asked him if she was ever going to see her mother again.

What I’m wondering, and it could be a stretch, is that maybe he said something like “if you “guys” do what I say I won’t hurt you..”, or “you “guys” don’t think about running”, or soooomething like that, that is not necessarily a “hey guys” type of comment.

ETA: Thinking about this further, I could think of a number of ways he could have used “guys” in a sentence. As mentioned, “what are you guys doing on this bridge!?” (Authoritative) or even interrogative for that matter, asking them a question...

 

[MassGuy]

It's unpopular here from what I have seen, but I lean towards the crime of opportunity/ undiscovered motive set myself. A snuff film seems very unlikely.

Not unpopular with me.

I think this was an opportunistic, sexually motivated double homicide.

 

[mtnlites]

Not just you. Me too.

My son is 12 and sounds 30. It freaks people out. He's the only one in his grade who's had a voice change.

For my BA degree I had to take a fair amount of linguistic classes. There is no way to actually tell accent from someone without certain letters being a part of the syntax-like the letter "r." Or "a." They generally prefer to hear the word (not the letter) "I" as part of the sampling, too, because different parts of the US often accent that word in different ways. So you're right. We're listening to 4 words distorted and muffled by what sounds like movement and possibly being hidden. No linguist would professionally be able to decipher accent or affect from this small piece. IMO we can't tell age, either, from the short burst of words because older men can sound younger than their age and vice versa.

 

[Falling Down]

Is it possible that the witness who saw something and felt it should be reported (the witness to the current sketch) saw BG in or around that car parked at the now demolished building at a specific time on February 13?

The witness would probably have no reason to note the make and model of car at the time, but after finding out about the murders, they approached police with what they observed? IMO MOO

<modsnipped no link for information>

It makes sense to me, now. He most likely parked there, walked a short distance to the main trail, then after the murders used the same route to escape. I thought that scenario was plausible, but I figured the cemetery was where he parked. One thing that should have clued me in to my theory being a little off is the fact that I haven't seen any mention of a vehicle parked at the cemetery during the hours in question.

I think he changed after the murders, and brought his wet/muddy clothing out of there in a bag or sack of some sort.

JMO

 

[Quinquin]

This is a dated article but I think it is interesting what Libby's GM says about the DNA evidencehttp://www.mychinews.com/crime/delphi-murders

We were able to speak with Libby’s grandmother, Becky Patty, who raised her and has done much of the public speaking regarding the case and started the brainstorming Facebook group. She mentioned she’s not sure where the Indiana police are on their investigation or when she would see justice for her daughter. Despite this, she remains hopeful. “Do I think they’re gonna catch him? Yes, I do. There’s too much evidence there for them not too. Are they catching them as soon as I would like? No, but we do have faith that they will get him one day. Sooner rather than later”.

Considering the evidence, it is unfortunate that police have been unable to make an arrest in the case. We asked Ms. Patty what she believes may be holding the police back. “Something that I am looking into more and more is I’m getting conflicting statements. I told my husband the other day I need somebody that can explain all this stuff legally to me. You have the golden state killer case, and they say that all came about through the analysis of DNA a different way. Indiana is one of the states that doesn’t search the DNA the way that they did. I’m getting conflicting data saying there is a way that they can do this and then I’m also being told there isn’t. I’ve got to do more research. If there is anything out there that could potentially help this case, it would be the police having better usage of searching DNA.”

 

[Willow Knight]

I was revisiting the “basement files” (WS members only). A lot of time and effort went into these. It was very interesting to go back for a second read two years later.

Here is the link—WS TOS states we are not allowed to discuss anything referred to in the basement thread up here in this thread. I hope these rules will be followed and this does not create more work for our moderators.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/

Thank you so much for this reminder. Wow, it was like reading it again for the first time, forgot so much since those days. Thank you.

 

[Falling Down]

A crazy idea... but I wonder if the company hired to demolish the building had done any preliminary work at the time of the murders? (I’m not sure when the building was removed). If you get where I’m going, there could have been workers exposed to the area via that project who could have been involved. This is purely speculation, no accusation, but I think everything has to be considered and hopefully has been by LE.

View of the property where the DSS office used to be, from IN 25 southbound, Aug. of '18 (corrected to 2018 from 2017):

Google Maps

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Not unpopular with me.

I think this was an opportunistic, sexually motivated double homicide.

That's what I think as well. IMO I think he's from the area, but didn't personally know the girls or their families.

 

[allboys]

DBM.

 

[cluciano63]

I don’t think tips from the public at large would be useful if they are simply trying to obtain useable evidence on a specific person. They must be getting hundreds, if not thousands of the type of “tips” LE gets when an image is released...many hours of work, etc...it is not useful strategy if they have a suspect they are trying to arrest. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

That's why I've hesitated to post that idea. But, my thought was the murder was incidental and capturing a video memory was the goal either for personal use or to share, i.e. a "snuff film".

People who make "snuff films" (and they're statistically not as popular as the media would have us believe) tend to go to great lengths to be covert with their actions. Broad daylight, public park, other people milling about...none of those fit the criteria that most "directors" of these films prefer-especially if a child is involved. There are snuff films on the internet, but the fear of them has been pushed by the media. In actuality, it's been proven that most of these shown on the "dark net" are not real. There was a website called Rotten that used to boast about these films, but they were all called out for being fake. The horrors suggested in the Nicholas Cage movie, 8MM, don't quite line up with reality. It was Hollywoodized. Real films, like the one that was used in a murder trial in Hong Kong, are rare. I don't think there's any real reason to suspect that this was his mission. There's really nothing to suggest in this crime that it was videotaped by anyone, but there are many reasons to think it was not.

 

[allboys]

So difficult to know.

One of my thoughts is some sort of skull scarf.

The other is headphones which he has taken off his ears and is wearing them around his neck.

Headphones with this kind of coloring:

https://thumb7.shutterstock.com/dis...ear-a-black-and-white-headphone-421315399.jpg

Interesting thoughts. I wasn’t sure what you meant by skull scarf, so I had to google for images. Seems possible? (And super scary!)

Google Image Result for https://image.dhgate.com/0x0/f2/albu/g8/M00/B2/61/rBVaVFwhijSAFL67AALgQQD0rZM163.jpg

 

[ab01]

That happens, but usually indoors.

Those killers tend to be more organized than what I think this guy is.

He just didn’t have that kind of time, and isn’t that type of killer.

I know exactly what you mean.

That type of killer has to have everything just right.

Lays everything out just the way he has envisioned and wants to make sure he has all the time he needs to fulfill all of his sick twisted plan.

controlled environment and and no chance of being interrupted

JMO

 

[IronOrchid]

This is a dated article but I think it is interesting what Libby's GM says about the DNA evidencehttp://www.mychinews.com/crime/delphi-murders

We were able to speak with Libby’s grandmother, Becky Patty, who raised her and has done much of the public speaking regarding the case and started the brainstorming Facebook group. She mentioned she’s not sure where the Indiana police are on their investigation or when she would see justice for her daughter. Despite this, she remains hopeful. “Do I think they’re gonna catch him? Yes, I do. There’s too much evidence there for them not too. Are they catching them as soon as I would like? No, but we do have faith that they will get him one day. Sooner rather than later”.

Considering the evidence, it is unfortunate that police have been unable to make an arrest in the case. We asked Ms. Patty what she believes may be holding the police back. “Something that I am looking into more and more is I’m getting conflicting statements. I told my husband the other day I need somebody that can explain all this stuff legally to me. You have the golden state killer case, and they say that all came about through the analysis of DNA a different way. Indiana is one of the states that doesn’t search the DNA the way that they did. I’m getting conflicting data saying there is a way that they can do this and then I’m also being told there isn’t. I’ve got to do more research. If there is anything out there that could potentially help this case, it would be the police having better usage of searching DNA.”

DNA isn't useful if your victim's died at range. And no one except law enforcement knows how exactly these victims died.

 

[margarita25]

Is this guy =/>30 with younger-looking face? Or <30? Maybe we need a poll?

My opinion is over 30 and doesn’t necessarily look younger. I know they say he may look younger and there is this new “primary sketch”, doesn’t mean it absolutely is the case. JMO.

ETA: FTR, and I do not mean this disrespectfully to LE, just because something is said it doesn’t necessarily make it the be all end all fact. Look at Jayme Closs’ case and them saying there were no vehicles spotted on the way to the house. This is just one of many examples.

 

[MistyWaters]

The vehicle - is that what recently prompted the new direction?

“The sketch released Monday was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported according to,the sketch artist.”
Delphi murders: Investigators have had newly released suspect sketch for 2 years

Just tossing out some thoughts -
What was it the witness saw they felt needed to be reported?
No indication if the person associated to sketch #2 saw the killer on the trail system but they might’ve.
No indication that person knew the suspect was the driver of the parked car, but they might’ve.
Does LE know the ID of this vehicle?
Was the vehicle stolen or not ever registered?
Was satellite tracking involved?
Did it turn up somewhere burned, abandoned or turned in to a wreckers?
Was it traceable Your car may be invading your privacy
Perhaps LE only recently was able to connect the driver of this vehicle to the witness who made the report?
So many questions.