Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

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Would someone please post again the date and which church played the movie The Shack in/near Delphi. It was the chuch Libby's grandparents attended, I believe. Thank you.
I'm not aware of the church playing the movie but I did confirm in earlier thread that "The Shack" aired on Easter Sunday (day before presser) on the Lifetime network.
 
As I have been hypothysizing since Monday: moo. Mid twenties highly educated man who is embedded in religious community and known to LE as having ties to many people in Delphi. History of severe mental illness such as major depression with psychotic features. Hiding in plain sight with help of medication and family support. Deeply emotionally disturbed leading to delusional thinking which was acted out during period of excessive stress. This will be perceived as a huge betrayal by LE and families. LE knows who he is. Looking to gather additional material to support the criminal prosecution. Only a matter of time now.
 
If liberty started recording him and then put the phone in her pocket so he wouldn't see it, which is the reason I think he didn't take it, at what point would she take it out and stop recording, without him noticing, not that I think she would even have the opportunity? Jmo

Edited to fix typos

here's what bothers me about her putting it in her pocket and I'll try to be as delicate as possible
if she were sexually assaulted (I don't think we know one way or the other?), wouldn't he have removed her pants and discovered the phone?
I think it's more likely it got dropped, either purposely or accidently by Libby when she was being forced 'down the hill' or fell out of her pants pocket when they were removed
I hated typing that. I know we all hate to think about it too.
 
It can be useful if the perp left biological matter on the victim or if the victim physically fought with them before they were killed.

Well yes, but I think IronOrchid meant that the killing might have happened at a distance ("at range") so there was no touching that happened and hence no DNA transfer.
 
Nope. Not here and no discussion allowed on scanner thread.

However, people who want to discuss it can start a private conversation—max of either 20 or 21 people. Just start it, and invite people who you think might be interested. (I advise sending PMs first to see who is interested, so your group isn’t cluttered with people who aren’t really interested.

And whatever you do, DO NOT post in the open forum to say that you’re setting up a group conversation, DO NOT post in the open forum asking to be invited to a group conversation. That gets the thread shut down.

Oh, and try to not invite the murderer to your conversation. That would be awkward.
 
So I'm not from Delphi but was required to visit the Carroll Co. Sheriffs Dept. for work yesterday 4/26, and did a little spin around town out of curiosity. It was a bit odd, a full week after the PC, I expected to maybe see businesses or the area on the main drag to have the new sketch hung up here and there, but the only place I ran into it was on the CCSD front door. Literally did not see it ANYWHERE.

The new fliers will be printed and distributed soon. Folks involved just needed some time to ensure the correct information is given with the sketch etc. Then get lists together, make a plan to divide and conquer and knock on doors to ask that fliers be hung. Starting in Delphi area for now. This one is already being shared on social media.
 

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However, people who want to discuss it can start a private conversation—max of either 20 or 21 people. Just start it, and invite people who you think might be interested. (I advise sending PMs first to see who is interested, so your group isn’t cluttered with people who aren’t really interested.

And whatever you do, DO NOT post in the open forum to say that you’re setting up a group conversation, DO NOT post in the open forum asking to be invited to a group conversation. That gets the thread shut down.

Oh, and try to not invite the murderer to your conversation. That would be awkward.
The last time this was suggested the thread got shut down do not not not start promoting private messaging groups. Please!
 
As far as broad daylight being an indicator of intelligence/organization as an offender, Israel Keyes committed crimes in broad daylight and is still considered to be an organized offender.

“Methodical, organized, self-aware, with a gruesome, compartmentalized life.“
https://mynorthwest.com/5599/profile-of-another-washington-serial-killer-israel-keyes/

“He buried "kill kits"--cash, weapons, and body-disposal tools--in remote locations across the country and over the course of fourteen years, would fly to a city, rent a car, and drive thousands of miles in order to use his kits He would break into a stranger's house, abduct his victims in broad daylight, and kill and dispose of them in mere hours And then he would return home, resuming life as a quiet, reliable construction worker devoted to his only daughter.”
AMERICAN PREDATOR: THE HUNT FOR THE MOST METICULOUS SERIAL KILLER OF THE 21ST CENTURY | Rizzoli Bookstore

“With organized offenders, there are typically three separate crime scenes: where the victim was approached by the killer, where the victim was killed, and where the victim’s body was disposed of. Organized killers are very difficult to apprehend because they go to inordinate lengths to cover their tracks and often are forensically savvy, meaning they are familiar with police investigation methods. They are likely to follow the news media reports of their crimes and may even correspond with the news media. Ted Bundy, Joel Rifkin and Dennis Rader are prime examples of organized killers.“
Organized Versus Disorganized Serial Predators

“A month later, he (Bundy) grabbed a twelve-year-old girl in broad daylight.”
Murder Mentors for Copycat Killers

Keyes' crimes were mainly in forested areas early on in his killing career, then he started abducting people at some point, killing them, then either leaving them where they were murdered, or dumping the bodies.

One big difference is i think Keyes got off on the planning, the hunt, the killing, etc., whereas i think BG gets off on the notoriety, the press coverage, the fear, etc.. Most of Keyes' murders got very little press coverage, but his last 3 or so got plenty of local coverage because of the nature of the crimes. He got sloppy, too, like many killers, which ended up with him being caught.

JMO
 
As I have been hypothysizing since Monday: moo. Mid twenties highly educated man who is embedded in religious community and known to LE as having ties to many people in Delphi. History of severe mental illness such as major depression with psychotic features. Hiding in plain sight with help of medication and family support. Deeply emotionally disturbed leading to delusional thinking which was acted out during period of excessive stress. This will be perceived as a huge betrayal by LE and families. LE knows who he is. Looking to gather additional material to support the criminal prosecution. Only a matter of time now.
I agree with age, religious connection, and history of mental illness. I also think he is tied to the local Delphi community. I hope they do know who he is, and that an arrest is imminent. MOO
 
As far as committing a crime broad daylight being an indicator of intelligence/organization as an offender, Israel Keyes committed crimes in broad daylight and is still considered to be an organized offender.

“Methodical, organized, self-aware, with a gruesome, compartmentalized life.“
https://mynorthwest.com/5599/profile-of-another-washington-serial-killer-israel-keyes/

“He buried "kill kits"--cash, weapons, and body-disposal tools--in remote locations across the country and over the course of fourteen years, would fly to a city, rent a car, and drive thousands of miles in order to use his kits He would break into a stranger's house, abduct his victims in broad daylight, and kill and dispose of them in mere hours And then he would return home, resuming life as a quiet, reliable construction worker devoted to his only daughter.”
AMERICAN PREDATOR: THE HUNT FOR THE MOST METICULOUS SERIAL KILLER OF THE 21ST CENTURY | Rizzoli Bookstore

“With organized offenders, there are typically three separate crime scenes: where the victim was approached by the killer, where the victim was killed, and where the victim’s body was disposed of. Organized killers are very difficult to apprehend because they go to inordinate lengths to cover their tracks and often are forensically savvy, meaning they are familiar with police investigation methods. They are likely to follow the news media reports of their crimes and may even correspond with the news media. Ted Bundy, Joel Rifkin and Dennis Rader are prime examples of organized killers.“
Organized Versus Disorganized Serial Predators

“A month later, he (Bundy) grabbed a twelve-year-old girl in broad daylight.”
Murder Mentors for Copycat Killers
Keyes abducted some of his victims in broad daylight, but didn’t kill them in broad daylight.

Some of his murders were years in the making, and were no where near as reckless as this.

This crime doesn’t have any evidence of detailed planning.

As for Bundy, he devolved to almost a spree killer at the end, but that was because the walls were closing in.
 
Sorry if some/all of these questions have been answered. I've been multi-quoting as I go, but once again gave up before being completely caught up.
Refresh my memory. Was the time of BG walking on the bridge ever released?
I believe the video was said to be timestamped at about 2:30.

I can only speak for myself. It's not that I believe LE is untrustworthy. It's that I've lost some confidence in them. They had the sketch they just released for five months before the other, much-publicized sketch was created. For five months, it was their only eyewitness sketch. But they never shared it with the GP. Then, the other sketch was developed and released. For the next year and a half it became the "face" of BG. Now, more than 2 years after the murders, suddenly, they dismiss the much-publicized sketch and replace it with a different one. This sketch doesn't really *seem* to match the person on the video. The face also *seems* too youthful to belong to the older voice captured on the audio. But now we're supposed to believe LE when they express no doubt that this is BG. I'm sorry, but it comes across to me as *too* certain, as though LE is trying too hard to assure us, after their big oopsie, that they know what they're doing. That said, I do hope I'm wrong.
I really don't think the voice sounds as old as it did in the beginning. He has a fairly deep-pitch and a rather calm demeanor for the circumstances, but that doesn't always mean old.

apologize if I am asking a stupid Q- I did not follow this case when it was new. Do they think she filmed him from a distance? ... coming toward them, before he started his interaction with them? So they were probably apprehensive about him but not so scared initially that they flat out tried to run away?
They have said the reason the pictures were so unclear is because they were taken at a distance and after enlarging, enhancing, etc., that was the best they could do. They said when the stills were first released that they couldn't be enhanced any more than they already were (not that it stopped most of us from trying) because the best that the government had already did what they could with much better equipment than the average person would have. I thought it sounded like they thought he was more weird than scary, but LE never said that as far as I know.

Hi all.
I haven't posted in a long time but something about this case has been bugging me.
What does it mean to "hide in plain sight?" IMO it means not to hide at all. Someone who is hiding in plain site doesn't need to "hide" in normal terms because no one knows they are there. Someone who blends in, like a chameleon. In this case I think it is or could be IMO someone they see (they being Delphi citizens) every day but pay no attention to. Could be a teacher, a janitor, a law enforcement officer, a coach, etc. It is only after someone gets caught that people say "OMG, he was right there, all along!" Someone like that.
When I hear them talking about someone hiding in plain sight, I tend to think of people like the mail carrier, trash man, delivery drivers, bus boys (are they still called that?) at restaurants, store clerks, etc. Someone you may see almost every day, but you really have no idea what the person looks like. Someone who fits in so well in their particular location that they just sort of blend into the background.

There are over 90 threads here and I can't possibly keep up. Will someone please help refresh my memory? TIA
1) Had the girls gone to this park alone before?
2) Did they ask to go to the park that day?
3) Was there a specific reason they went to the park?
4) Was there a specific time they wanted to be at the park?
5) Who knew they were going to be at the park?
6) Did either of the girls have any sort of social media account?
7) Did they text or call anyone or post anything that day to let friends know where they were going to be?
4. They didn't ask to go there at a specific time. They wanted to go, and they got a ride when the sister was leaving for her friend's house and then work.
5. Nobody really knew they were going before they left other than the sister, father and grandmother, and it was said (but not confirmed by LE) that another friend had originally wanted to go with them. The were said to be posting pictures from there on SnapChat (I believe), which would have let people know where they were.
1) It was stated earlier that Libby had been to this park/bridge with her sister. We do not know if Abby had been to the park or the bridge before this day.

2) Abby spent the previous night at Libby's house. Libby had permission to go, but Abby's mom had not been consulted.

3) The reason given was that Libby wanted to shoot some photos.

4) Unknown if they wanted to be there at a specific time. Libby's sister dropped them off around 1:15-1:30 and Libby's GF was to pick them up at 3:15-3:30. (times are roughly given as the details escape me).

5) Libby's sister, GM, GF - although I am not sure GF knew ahead of time, but he knew to g pick them up. There was a 3rd girl that was invited but was not there - I don't think she could get permission to go. So, she knew as did someone in her family.

6) Libby had KiK. They may have had fb, but someone else can verify this.

7) Unknown, although the photo of Abby on the bridge was published on Snapchat by Libby. I have no idea how that works.
One thing I've been trying to remember. I thought Abby's mother said that Abby had been allowed to go on the trail before, but there was no way she would have given permission to go on the bridge. I was never sure if that meant it was out of the ordinary for her to cross the bridge that day, or if she had been on it before without her mother knowing about it. I keep wondering if they had only crossed the bridge originally to get away from the weird guy on the north side, and she recorded him when she saw that he was following them over there.

As always, this jumbled mess is my opinions because I don't have any links handy and can't guarantee the accuracy of my memory.
 
here's what bothers me about her putting it in her pocket and I'll try to be as delicate as possible
if she were sexually assaulted (I don't think we know one way or the other?), wouldn't he have removed her pants and discovered the phone?
I think it's more likely it got dropped, either purposely or accidently by Libby when she was being forced 'down the hill' or fell out of her pants pocket when they were removed
I hated typing that. I know we all hate to think about it too.


For the sake of the girls, and their families, I hope they were not sexually assaulted. Horrible enough that they were killed... I also hope that the perp can’t have sex in the normal way, or has huge problems with it. But some weirdness ending to DNA being left/shed is entirely possible.
 
If BG is older did he have military background or if he was younger as some suggest did he have an interest in the military?
I don’t think we know enough to even venture a guess.

It was easier with Jake Patterson, because of what the crime scene looked like.

Overwhelming force, a blitz style attack.

Several people thought that it looked like someone with military experience.

All we have hear is a man walking in the woods.
 
You can't help but feel the anguish and sorrow in Doug Carters
voice. This is weighing on him very heavily and who knows it could be because he thinks that he knows who that person is. Perhaps a co-worker, someone that has come to light to him and the two week period is time to give that person some extra rope to hang themselves so to speak.
 
For the sake of the girls, and their families, I hope they were not sexually assaulted. Horrible enough that they were killed... I also hope that the perp can’t have sex in the normal way, or has huge problems with it. But some weirdness ending to DNA being left/shed is entirely possible.

We're not privy to that information. Best not to speculate at this point without an end goal.
 
As I have been hypothysizing since Monday: moo. Mid twenties highly educated man who is embedded in religious community and known to LE as having ties to many people in Delphi. History of severe mental illness such as major depression with psychotic features. Hiding in plain sight with help of medication and family support. Deeply emotionally disturbed leading to delusional thinking which was acted out during period of excessive stress. This will be perceived as a huge betrayal by LE and families. LE knows who he is. Looking to gather additional material to support the criminal prosecution. Only a matter of time now.

Also, he has something akin to imaginary world, both in terms of sexual activity, and also, ability to dissociate from the reality, i.e., leave the killings behind him and “pretend to be normal”, to continue hiding in plain sight. I still think like @MassGuy that BG’s social skills are not great, but he may be sort of an “ambivert”, an introvert who passes for an extrovert.
 
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