Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[kkdj]

It has been my experience and therefore moo that some people with mental illness obsess on religion and sex.
It's been difficult for me to see this psychopath that murdered Abby and Libby as a "religious" person. It just doesn't fit imo. But I guess if it's someone suffering from a mental illness I could see it.
To add, even though someone may have a mental illness and may obsess with religion and sex, most don't commit criminal acts.
I'm not really seeing the mental illness aspect with this. I'm seeing a sick twisted psychopath.
moo
Hope this makes sense.
ETA
We do have the man that kidnapped ES being obsessed with religion and his crime was sexually motivated. That's one example of a mentally ill person committing criminal acts. Most don't do that.
I just can't see this murderer being like that at all. I just see him as an evil psychopath.

 

[Jamie737]

, they need to find the person. A corrected sketch may be the key to finally getting

This is what bothers me. If there were DNA that wasn’t explainable by normal contact the amount of uploads in GEDmatch would have brought them further along by now.

Personally I hope the OBG-has-turned-witness theory is right.

 

[RedBeard]

It’s not an uncommon phrase or thought.

People long believed that it was easy to spot someone capable of evil, as they didn’t look like most of us.

Killers like Ted Bundy, have helped to prove this thinking wrong.

Look at the Zodiac Killer, he not only hid but killed in plain sight. Most people who aren't completely unhinged like Richard Ramirez generally go unnoticed for a lot longer if not forever. Someone who is deranged isn't necessarily crazy, even seemingly random events can be methodical. Confidence and devious intentions can go a long way when it comes to doing harm.

 

[ab01]

If they strongly suspected someone of this, and DNA evidence does exist (I think it does in some form), then they could simply ask for a cheek swab.

If he did say no, then they would be able to get it surreptitiously. Sometimes it takes time, but it can always be done. It might take forever, but where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Alternatively, they could get DNA from a close family member, and see if there’s a partial match.

That’s why I don’t think they have their eyes on a specific individual.

I ageee, I think he will probably end up being someone thatLE hand’t ever considered. Just an average joe type of guy. Doesn’t socialize and is very unremarkable, Time will tell. Tick....Tick.....tick

 

[allboys]

Yeah, definitely a good way to do it.

I’d be the worst person in the world to provide a description.

“Yes, he had a nose,” isn’t exactly helpful.

I’d have a shot at providing a somewhat accurate description this way.

We had a kid (late teens) jump out by our car as we were nearing a traffic light one rainy Friday night this past winter. He also kind of “danced” up to a cop car in front of us. I’m not sure if he was high on drugs, or what. I couldn’t believe the cop car didn’t stop, because he had to have seen him.

Anyway, later at dinner, my husband and 3 sons and I all described the kid who had approached our car. So, there were 5 of us giving descriptions about an hour after the incident (in which we saw him for an unexpected, fleeting moment.) But he definitely had our FULL attention.

We all had different descriptions, without much overlap. I thought he was shirtless (with suspenders?!). Everyone else saw a shirt, but different shirt types. We saw different skin and hair colors. About the only thing we could agree on was the approximate age and gender.

It was a very interesting REAL LIFE exercise in how unreliable witness accounts/descriptions can be. But yes, @MassGuy , I can tell you he had a nose.

 

[RedBeard]

Yeah, there’s some middle ground there, a place where I think he lies.

He was physically able to murder two teenage girls, so any impairment in that regard, is likely minimal to non existent.

I don’t think he’s all that bright, but that doesn’t mean it’s because he’s suffering from some mental disability.

Average appearance and intelligence, puts him on par with most people.

That’s actually something that would suit him well, especially in regards to identification.

Yea one doesn't need to be book smart to have high intellect and perception. Look at all the fake psychics out there and con artists. This guy seems working class but highly intelligent when it comes to assessing and manipulating peoples emotions. He is very compulsive though, he seized on an opportunity at the drop of a hat seemingly. I agree his appearance, gestures and his education are all average. If he has a criminal history I imagine it's more inline with burglaries, domestic violence rather than random or planned assaults. He seems like has honed his predatory skills in some manner. He may be a first time killer, but he definitely has some experience at being a predator.

 

[Dee10]

Hope this is what you are looking for, Mama:

I think the discussion may have revolved around the posting of the March 2017 UMC newsletter? (The movie night information can be found on page 8).

This was posted by OfficerHops. Thread 90, page 25, post #493.

http://www.delphiumc.org/hp_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/MARCH2017-NEWSLETTER.pdf

Their newsletter is very impressive in how organized it is and all the events that they have is amazing. I have even seen that they do baptisms in Deer Creek near the bridge, probably in warm weather lol.

 

[x_files]

Exactly. IMO, he's a nobody. As in, nobody special. Doesn't stand out for any reason. Average job, average personality, average looks, average intelligence. This is how he hides in plain sight.

He probably thinks he's above average intelligence though.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

yikes. I honestly feel bad for any parent who has to come to terms their own child/teen is a violent and dangerous predator. What can a parent do? Medication won't stop violent tendencies alone. But we need to prevent more cases like this.

Also a subject of the book “ shack”. Talks about Gods love for us even in our worst sins, much like a parent would still love their disturbed child that commits a grave murder. Because the parent would recognize the underlying reasons that may have caused the child to turn into a murderer. The vulnerabilities, the brokenness that caused the depravity.

 

[zencompass]

Serial killers can be impulsive, and I do think there was an element of that here (not that he’s a serial killer, but I think he is in effect one).

We still don’t know how the girls we’re killed, but if there was a great deal of violence, then this guy is exactly what I think he’s is.

Mostly disorganized.

Dear MassGuy,

Agreed.

On a sunny but cool February afternoon in that area, with no cars close by to hide/distort noise, no leaves on trees - voices would carry - sounds would appear to the ear to be closer. Yet, no one heard - screaming, thrashing, water sounds, splashing through water?

The monster had absolute control. Absolute. No one around the trail reported hearing anything.

 

[Gumbeaux]

Hope this is what you are looking for, Mama:

I think the discussion may have revolved around the posting of the March 2017 UMC newsletter? (The movie night information can be found on page 8).

This was posted by OfficerHops. Thread 90, page 25, post #493.

http://www.delphiumc.org/hp_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/MARCH2017-NEWSLETTER.pdf

Ah, that was the mention previously stated — but as I see it, it is meaningless. The movie The Shack debuted (theaters or straight to streaming??) March 3, 2017, and this youth group watched a different movie on their “last?” theater night, March 3, 2017.

Lots of angles are potentially relevant to the case, this “correlation” someone drew makes me shrug.

 

[gitana1]

Hello gitana1:Thank-you for all the valuable information you provide.

It makes me so happy (therefore my tickled pink emoji) to finally answer a question from you.

I brought my post forward from the previous thread. If I remember correctly it is the second link from the post below that you are looking for. If not it is the first one

You are a doll!!!!! But I was actually referring to a video that aired before the bodies were found. Do you recall that one? You might have posted that as well. It was of two young men in the dark or at dusk talking about searching for the girls.

 

[x_files]

Their newsletter is very impressive in how organized it is and all the events that they have is amazing. I have even seen that they do baptisms in Deer Creek near the bridge, probably in warm weather lol.

baptism in the same river?

 

[RedBeard]

Is there honestly any reason for him to have taken the time to drag their bodies up the hill and dump them where they were found? I’d honestly think he’d have quickly made his exit....

It could have been that hiding them added to the experience or was just part of his compulsion. Another theory is he could have directed them there with a firearm or whatever weapon he might have had. There is no info on where they were killed at or their cause of death so it's hard to speculate in that regard with any confidence.

 

[ab01]

I ageee, I think he will probably end up being someone thatLE hand’t ever considered. Just an average joe type of guy. Doesn’t socialize and is very unremarkable, Time will tell. Tick....Tick.....tick

And if he does socialize it’s a small circle of people

 

[RedBeard]

He probably thinks he's above average intelligence though.

Most likely, unless he just did it in a fit of rage which I don't think what evidence we know about supports. If he did this out of pleasure or compulsion he probably is arrogant as you say but he may not convey it in the manner a normal or out front person might. It could be he does it in a more settle or abusive manner than the average arrogant know it all.

 

[MassGuy]

It could have been that hiding them added to the experience or was just part of his compulsion. Another theory is he could have directed them there with a firearm or whatever weapon he might have had. There is no info on where they were killed at or their cause of death so it's hard to speculate in that regard with any confidence.

And having that information would tell us a lot about this crime, and the guy who committed it.

How did he kill them?

Was there overkill?

Were they clothed?

Where were their bodies located in relation to one another?

How were they positioned?

Of course these are key details that need to remain a secret, but they would provide us with tremendous insight.

 

[kkdj]

He probably thinks he's above average intelligence though.

I have a feeling this dude has been a sneaky guy all his life and realized people never caught on. He's probably pulled lots of stuff and nobody held him accountable. So, he thinks he's cagey imo.

 

[Jerrod]

Dear MassGuy,

Agreed. On a sunny but cool February afternoon in that area, with no cars close by to hide/distort noise, no leaves on trees - voices would carry - sounds would appear to the ear to be closer. Yet, no one heard - screaming, thrashing, water sounds, splashing through water? The monster had absolute control. Absolute. No one around the trail reported hearing anything.

The families and other locals have mentioned it was breezy or windy that day, which could cause a white noise effect masking any unusual sounds around the trails.

 

[pepper 34]

This is RTV6 helicopter video from the afternoon they found the girls. If you start at the 19:00 mark you'll see two searchers in the water next to the bank near where the girls were found (located about 50' from the bank in the woods per reports). Next is a line of searchers crossing the creek. It's not terribly deep. At the 20:27 mark one of the searchers reaches down into the water, like he found something, the water appears to be about shin deep on him. The searchers are shown again around the 26:00 or a little after in much deeper water (waist deep on some) but still walking. If you have time to watch the entire video it will give you a better lay of the land.

I think someone would have to know, before the day of the murders, that this is a shallow place along the creek where it's easy to cross. Because, it looks like there was no creek bed sand exposed during that time to clue someone unfamiliar with the area as to how deep the water really was. I bet BG has crossed the creek right there in the past and more than a few times. Fishing... hunting... or heading to the cemetery to "visit" a grave... something.