Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #96

[MistyWaters]

MOO the police said they started with about 1100 POIs, now down to a few dozen.
Like a puzzle, elimination of possibilities one by one leads the real solution.

Has DNA risen to the forefront because it’s believed a SA occurred? If so, that’s not a fact that’s known. Otherwise I’m curious, how can we be certain the murderer left DNA on the bodies, as LE haven’t confirmed it.

Even something such as a cigarette butt tossed aside found floating in the river may only prove someone upstream smoked, and tossed it either long before or after the murders occurred.

 

[kkdj]

Maybe the computer desktop was viewable on purpose.

Then a certain someone might be very unhappy and feel unsafe.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I looked for the teenager interview yesterday. I remember seeing her interviewed on the street. Maybe at a vigil? It was a few days after.
Maybe in the earlier threads. I’ll take a look if I have time.
I do recall having a very strong opinion about her comment. ( not sure if I vocalizes it here).

Maybe this article?
"We were by each other every single day ... she was considered my twin because we look so much alike. My dad, her grandpa and grandma got us mixed up."
Month after girls found dead, double murder haunts Indiana town

 

[neesaki]

Link to Paul Holes the GSK investigator. Scroll down to see his comment that "Indiana reached out to him". Still cagey but quite hopeful.

Paul Holes on Twitter

Who is he?

 

[Boxer]

I do not think there is any doubt they have DNA. This article from July 2018 says the Delphi investigators began working with "highly trained genealogist" CeCe Moore who helped identify April Tinsley's killer. They used DNA in that case and genealogy databases.
Delphi murder investigators using same DNA tech that led to Fort Wayne cold case arrest

Hi
This is the reason for the DNA discussion right now.

 

[PaulaDC]

I've seen this mentioned as being a taboo subject a few times but totally missed why that is - is it possible to elaborate on why we shouldn't discuss that particular activity (I did as you suggested and looked up what it was they were doing)?

Honestly, I can't answer you. I don't know the answer why.

 

[MassGuy]

Has DNA risen to the forefront because it’s believed a SA occurred? If so, that’s not a fact that’s known. Otherwise I’m curious, how can we be certain the murderer left DNA on the bodies.

Even something such as a cigarette butt tossed aside found floating in the river may only prove someone upstream smoked, either before or after the murders occurred.

There’s the potential of touch DNA, skin under a victim’s fingernails, blood from an accidental injury (knife), and of course semen.

So I’m hopeful, no matter what happened.

 

[JENNIFER70]

Who is he?

Big player in catching GSK, East Area Rapist ect

 

[Rossymom]

My husband and both sons have had their dna collected due to their military careers. I know that we discussed this long ago on here, but I forget our conclusion to this question.....could the FBI obtain a dna sample from the military records dept (I am assuming Quantico) without the service members agreement to do so?
I asked my husband if they were deployed and someone was suspected of a murder back in the states, would they wait until they arrived back from deployment to arrest him. He said, "oh, hell no".
Anyway, I guess I was wondering if the two week reference referred to him coming home from a deployment, tech school, AIT, or basic training.

 

[ocgrad]

Has DNA risen to the forefront because it’s believed a SA occurred? If so, that’s not a fact that’s known. Otherwise I’m curious, how can we be certain the murderer left DNA on the bodies, as LE haven’t confirmed it.

Even something such as a cigarette butt tossed aside found floating in the river may only prove someone upstream smoked, and tossed it either long before or after the murders occurred.

Yes, it all depends on where the DNA is found. Under fingernails is much more compelling than a cigarette butt.

 

[MistyWaters]

Cindy Anthony blatantly lied in court that she was the one who searched the internet for chloroform. She said her dog was acting funny and she thought it was from eating the bamboo and while checking her search lead her from chlorophyll to chloroform. She was at work when that was searched and it wasn't chlorophyll that was even searched. Of course the jury didn't by her lies trying to cover for her daughter.

I don’t know but I somehow doubt this case involves the use of chloroform. It takes up to 5 minutes before it’s effective. One murderer, two healthy teen victims, just wouldn’t seem to fit.

 

[Boxer]

Who is he?

Paul Holes is the detective that used familial DNA search to catch Joseph DeAngelo, the Golden State Killer.

 

[cluciano63]

I too thought the PC was kind of all over the place. I don’t think they really wanted to do it, but were forced by needing to dismiss old image, push new image. They might be surprised that so many (here, at least) came away thinking they know who did it. I sure did not get that impression in the least.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

My husband and both sons have had their dna collected due to their military careers. I know that we discussed this long ago on here, but I forget our conclusion to this question.....could the FBI obtain a dna sample from the military records dept (I am assuming Quantico) without the service members agreement to do so?
I asked my husband if they were deployed and someone was suspected of a murder back in the states, would they wait until they arrived back from deployment to arrest him. He said, "oh, hell no".
Anyway, I guess I was wondering if the two week reference referred to him coming home from a deployment, tech school, AIT, or basic training.

"could the FBI obtain a dna sample from the military records dept (I am assuming Quantico) without the service members agreement to do so?"
It seems so.

"As its name suggests, the DNA Repository was initially conceived solely to identify the remains of service members. However, a small entry in the huge 2003 National Defense Authorization Act, signed by President Bush on December 2, 2002, overrides Pentagon policy that the DNA samples be used almost solely to identity troops killed in combat, and allows access to the Repository for law enforcement purposes."

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/geneticprivacy/DNA_mil.html

 

[PaulaDC]

I looked for the teenager interview yesterday. I remember seeing her interviewed on the street. Maybe at a vigil? It was a few days after.
Maybe in the earlier threads. I’ll take a look if I have time.
I do recall having a very strong opinion about her comment. ( not sure if I vocalizes it here).

I thought it was in a news interview in the beginning after the girls were found, and I thought the girl who mentioned the "all black" said it could also just be just a rumor.

 

[MistyWaters]

There’s the potential of touch DNA, skin under a victim’s fingernails, blood from an accidental injury (knife), and of course semen.

So I’m hopeful, no matter what happened.

Any of those examples should contain an excellent opportunity to obtain a full DNA profile, I’d assume.

Second to that comes any DNA samples, full or partial, that can be collected from anywhere within the crime scene, which in this case is a large outdoor area that was also accessible to the public.

By this comment below, it appears a lot of DNA was collected but if the murderer left behind skin, blood or semen, surely that would’ve become a #1 priority by Aug/17? This comment is also the reason for my scepticism.

Aug, 2017 link on previous page
“At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there,” said Sgt. Holeman.”

 

[Matic]

Coming up on the end of the 2nd week since the new info.

Anyone think some news is going to break next week?

 

[NameUser]

So I did an Ancestry DNA kit. What strikes me is when LE said they went from thousands of suspect down to dozens.

The test results that came back for me showed hundreds of third and fourth cousins. If they went this route, the DNA profile could be a close match to multiple families that then would then go through to check and eliminate.

If BG and direct family has not done any DNA tests, they could be close to finding him(2nd or 3rd cousin), but still have a lot to sort through.

 

[carbuff]

Any of those examples should contain an excellent opportunity to obtain a full DNA profile, I’d assume.

Second to that comes any DNA samples, full or partial, that can be collected from anywhere within the crime scene, which in this case is a large outdoor area that was also accessible to the public.

By this comment below, it appears a lot of DNA was collected but if the murderer left behind skin, blood or semen, surely that would’ve become a #1 priority by Aug/17? This comment is also the reason for my scepticism.

Aug, 2017 link on previous page
“At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there,” said Sgt. Holeman.”

That sounds like there are samples that are mixed together. Like blood smears that came from more than one person (victim and killer) or something along those lines.

There would also probably be DNA that could legitimately be there from other sources. For instance the grandmother's DNA might be on Libby's jacket if she hung it up for her, or unknown DNA on an object near the scene that might or might not be connected to the crime.

I am also wondering if one of the issues is that somebody touched the bodies during recovery. That could have contaminated the scene pretty thoroughly.

eta: changed wording so it didn't sound like a rumor.

 

[gregjrichards]

Coming up on the end of the 2nd week since the new info.

Anyone think some news is going to break next week?

The girl’s families may do some media interviews but I’m not expecting an imminent arrest or significant breaking news. I’m just hopeful for an arrest in 2019.