Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[LarkBunting]

This post falls at random.
I’ve read a few posts with theories that BG may not have been sexually or otherwise motivated, but “just” wanted to kill. I’ve never bought that theory, personally. I came across this picture of the bridge & it really struck me just how high it is. If someone “just” wanted to kill someone, why not push that person off the bridge? I’m actually surprised we haven’t heard of injuries or even deaths from accidental falls from the bridge, as it looks pretty dangerous.
(And, obviously, if BG had simply pushed the girls off the bridge, they would’ve been found sooner & in that immediate area.)

 

[MsBetsy]

Ted Bundy started well in college, went into politics, I think he was a fundraiser for one of the parties, and then quit this job. He indeed must have been charming and charismatic, but what I don't see around him would be a single male friend.

There are female friends, Ann Rule among them, girlfriends, coworkers, but not a single guy with whom you.. you know, do guys' stuff. Fish, hike, go to sports events.

And this is sort of suspicious by itself. Did the male peer community reject him, or were his interests so far away from them?

Yes, he was said to have been handsome and charming.
Hunting down female victims was likely more of a favorite pastime than hanging out with the guys.
I don't know if that will be the case with this guy, though. He doesn't strike me as much of a ladies man. Jmo

 

[wary]

If he addressed the girls that way, he most likely addresses other people that way. IMO.

Right—but I suspect strongly that LE has no idea how he addresses other people.

 

[raja]

This post falls at random.
I’ve read a few posts with theories that BG may not have been sexually or otherwise motivated, but “just” wanted to kill. I’ve never bought that theory, personally. I came across this picture of the bridge & it really struck me just how high it is. If someone “just” wanted to kill someone, why not push that person off the bridge? I’m actually surprised we haven’t heard of injuries or even deaths from accidental falls from the bridge, as it looks pretty dangerous.
(And, obviously, if BG had simply pushed the girls off the bridge, they would’ve been found sooner & in that immediate area.)

Some people like the guy in Florida who threw the 5 year old off the mall 3rd floor may want to kill that way. I think if someone wants to kill they have their own fantasy.

 

[ab01]

Agree. Invisible complicated medical problems can't be diagnosed via blurry video or from a sketch provided by a subjective witness. Some people just have features that are naturally larger than others. And we won't even know how accurate the representation of said features are until BG is caught.

Exactly a sketch is a frickin sketch
It blows my mind that
People are convinced they can make
Medical and character conclusions off of a darn drawing that is based on memory!

Shaking my head

 

[ocgrad]

Well perhaps we can eliminate that he’s not from Texas, as they say “y’all.”

Oh I am quite sure he's not from Texas!

 

[sumzero]

Exactly a sketch is a frickin sketch
It blows my mind that
People are convinced they can make
Medical and character conclusions off of a darn drawing that is based on memory!

Shaking my head

It's Websleuths! Where mere mortals turn into super sleuths!

 

[ocgrad]

Remember that GH's videos are only made from what has been made public.

I disagree. He includes his hypotheses. And he conducts interviews. But he has a reputation to protect to not present fiction so I believe his theories are well vetted. Still, as an example a basic premise in his video is they went through the creek and that has never been made stated, it is just assumed.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Could be contaminated DNA ?....moo

Agreed! Also, may only have a small amount and are hesitant because of that.

 

[ab01]

I disagree. He includes his hypotheses. And he conducts interviews. But he has a reputation to protect to not present fiction so I believe his theories are well vetted. Still, as an example a basic premise in his video is they went through the creek and that has never been made stated, it is just assumed.

Ummm There is nothing to disagree with. His videos are based off of public available information. The poster is factually correct

 

[ocgrad]

(Italics inserted by me)
WS-ers, the more I think about this (and especially the many posts discussing DNA possibilities: Does LE have it? What have they learned from it? When will we find out?, etc., etc.), the more something I read maybe 10 or more years ago pops to the front of my mind. Not about DNA, per se, but about..."voice fingerprints". (I know, sounds a bit off-the-wall, right? But this concept first began to be discussed -- perhaps by some audio engineers at first, then later by the FBI -- over 10 years ago.) So I went digging around a bit, though had a tough time finding much (short of a few super-techy things that most of us may not understand). Here are a few tidbits -- hopefully someone else in the WS community can tell us more about it (the present-day accuracy levels, etc.). By the way, 10-15 years ago (when voice "fingerprints" were initially hypothesized), what we now know of as "voice actuation" (used by certain large corporations for security purposes) was in its infancy... There was no "Alexa" back then who would "memorize" a person's speech patterns/audio waves, etc. But...now? Everyone's heard of "Alexa". (I mention this regarding present-day applications.)

So many of us have listened, multiple times, to the "Down the hill...guys" audio clip. While I understand that the audio is fuzzy quality, I wonder...what are the possibilities that pinning down BG's "voice fingerprint" would bring LE even closer to BG's actual identity? Would love to hear from others on this topic.

Here are a few articles (I'd love to read even *more* up-to-date research about this technology and applications to forensic research, as well as more of the details regarding how voice audio that has been captured during a crime is used to narrow down a POI):

Voice 'Fingerprints' Change Crime-Solving (note: this story is from 2008 -- not exactly recent, but at least it's a start). Here's a quick part of it:

Running an audio clip of someone's voice through the system, called FASR, prompts bright squiggly lines to rise and fall. Each voice is quite distinct. While the pattern isn't as definitive as DNA, the FBI says, FASR gets pretty close.

Here's one other article (more on biometrics than specifically about "voice fingerprints"):

Top Five Biometrics: Face, Fingerprint, Iris, Palm and Voice

Here's a short part of this second article:

Forensic applications commonly perform a speaker identification process initially to create a list of best matches. Then a series of verification processes are done to determine a conclusive match. In these systems, the emphasis is on the vocal features that produce speech and not on the sound or pronunciation of speech.

Yes! I found this also when the DTH was first released. It sounded like they are close to being able to use it in court. It is in the stage that DNA was years ago when courts and juries didn't feel confident. It is being used by Homeland Security to create a database so they can quickly identify people when all they have is a phone conversation much people are identified by their DNA. IMO they must have much more audio than 3 or 4 words which will help to make the match complete.

 

[x_files]

Yes, he was said to have been handsome and charming.
Hunting down female victims was likely more of a favorite pastime than hanging out with the guys.
I don't know if that will be the case with this guy, though. He doesn't strike me as much of a ladies man. Jmo

Not getting a Bundy vibe either.

 

[ocgrad]

From the research I’ve read (albeit from 2009), the suspect is not a “pillar of the community”. He likely does not have many friends at all in his own age group. He likely has problems dating and with women in general. He is likely unemployed or works sporadically in a field such as construction. These indicators point to someone who is likely in the lower socioeconomic bracket. Quite frankly, this is a person who does not feel as though they “have their **** together” in life.

Again, he preyed on these girls for the feeling of power. Why? Because he likely does not feel powerful in any facet of his life otherwise.

At the press conference I assumed every single word was carefully scripted by the FBI. I just can’t believe the odd mention of “the shack” was a random addition by an emotional LEO. There is a tweet by Kelsi German on 6/7/18 that also mentions “The Shack”. Is the suspect following social media after the murders? Did he “like” that tweet?

I agree! RBBM.

 

[JDough]

Right!? Me too!
I agree the early witness that saw him without head or face covered, became credible after something else came to light.
That the first sketch was said to be a SO who was cleared I consider rumor till I set my self down to listen or the former officers quote their source.

I have been thinking about the early witness/sketch quite a bit the last few days. Can't seem to find a MSM link to answer the questions I have.

Has it ever been confirmed by LE when the witness "who saw something they felt needed to be reported" observed this behavior? Was it earlier in the day? After family/friends started arriving? During the evening search? Anybody know based on the information that has been released?

 

[JDough]

MassGuy, off the top of your head, and I am asking seriously and not in a challenging way (I will clearly state if I am being challenging lol), is can you (or anyone else) name an example of a perp who would be similar to what you’re thinking about being dumb and just lucky and able to evade for so long? I’m sure there are tons of examples but I was trying to think about this the other day and was not recalling any specific examples off the top of my head. Tia.

Zachary Adams? (Holly Bobo)

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Yes! I found this also when the DTH was first released. It sounded like they are close to being able to use it in court. It is in the stage that DNA was years ago when courts and juries didn't feel confident. It is being used by Homeland Security to create a database so they can quickly identify people when all they have is a phone conversation much people are identified by their DNA. IMO they must have much more audio than 3 or 4 words which will help to make the match complete.

The military has been using this technology for years. They can track the movement and conversations of known terrorists using voice recognition. Doesn't matter if they use burner phones, or switch burner phones every 5 minutes. They track the voice.

 

[ocgrad]

So I decided to take one of the stills from the LE video of BG on the bridge and zoom way, way in on his face. Then I fiddled around with the contrast and brightness to see if it made his face more discernable. Here's what I observed (all IMO):

- I originally took the stills and video to be of an older man in his 40's or perhaps even older. Zooming in very close definitely suggests a younger face than that, more in line with the second police sketch.

- I also thought that he had a brown hoodie on and the hood was all the way up over his head. But zoomed in close, a few things seem clear: 1) it's fabric on his head, not hair, because you can see ripples or wrinkles in the fabric on his crown - like you would see if someone had a cloth baseball cap on, and 2) the color of the brown hoodie does not match the color of the fabric on top of his head - the hoodie is a deeper, warmer brown and the fabric on his head is a cooler-toned lighter brown. It looks like a brown baseball cap worn backwards. If the first, and now eliminated, police sketch incorporated any elements from the video (and to be clear I have seen conflicting reports on that, so not sure whether that is indeed the case), I can see why they chose to draw a hat like they did.

- The lower part of his face is partially obscured by his clothing and also by something else that seems to be stuffed into the front of his blue coat. I know a lot of speculation has gone on around this but for what it's worth, it looks to me like a light gray disposable plastic shopping bag. I'll throw this random thought out there for consideration - Walmart has light gray shopping bags in the Midwest. IIRC, in the Closs case two states away, the murderer went to Walmart soon after seeing the kidnapping victim for the first time so he could buy supplies later used in the attack on her parents. Did BG do the same? Where is the nearest Walmart and what do the security cameras show in the days before Abby and Libby were murdered?

- You can see the side of his nose where the nostril flares out back to the point at which the nose meets the face. It suggests BG's nose may protrude out from his face to a bit bigger extent than the second sketch suggests, but that the shape of the nostrils is similar to the sketch.

I saw the same things you mentioned! The fabric on top of his head was what made me think of a balaclava or ski mask type thing. A beige kind of camo, not the dark brown/green type. But it could also be a cap. Some don't fit the head tight like the old knit type, they can stand apart from the head on top. There are some with a center seam, those seem more poofy on top. Some are adjustable so the part that goes in front across the mouth, from ear to ear can be moved. But it could also be a cap and gaiter. What stood out for me, whatever it is, is that isn't his big honker that is light and it isn't a thick mustache below it. That's why I think it might be camo. For the umpteenth time I'm going to upload some pictures of what it may be. These are marketed to hunters and also to bikers.

 

[kathryann]

Was the property owner home?

 

[MistyWaters]

I have been thinking about the early witness/sketch quite a bit the last few days. Can't seem to find a MSM link to answer the questions I have.

Has it ever been confirmed by LE when the witness "who saw something they felt needed to be reported" observed this behavior? Was it earlier in the day? After family/friends started arriving? During the evening search? Anybody know based on the information that has been released?

No the time was not disclosed, nothing beyond what you’ve quoted.

 

[ocgrad]

This post falls at random.
I’ve read a few posts with theories that BG may not have been sexually or otherwise motivated, but “just” wanted to kill. I’ve never bought that theory, personally. I came across this picture of the bridge & it really struck me just how high it is. If someone “just” wanted to kill someone, why not push that person off the bridge? I’m actually surprised we haven’t heard of injuries or even deaths from accidental falls from the bridge, as it looks pretty dangerous.
(And, obviously, if BG had simply pushed the girls off the bridge, they would’ve been found sooner & in that immediate area.)

I know! I hope they put hand rails on it!
But I think if someone wants or has a need to kill, there is a process they want to go through. Many want to see the suffering. The control, fear, almost getting caught, the risk, the holding someone's life in their hands can be a real high to them, they can even get sexual gratification from that part of it and again and again as they remember it.