Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[Blueberry2720]

I really like his videos. I was wondering if we could post his stuff. Excellent work in them.

Yes, he is approved by Tricia. He is actually a WS member too. Refer to page one of each thread and you will see he is OK!

 

[Jax49]

sorry... just learning how to put the quote i'm replying to in here. i wasn't asking what bg stands for, i was saying maybe bg was the one with access to the crime scene photos!

Thanks. Magz clued me in. Hopefully someone can source that shot (I'm thinking it was from a news video, but not sure).

ETA: I don't remember any question about it being authentic when we discussed it before, which would have only happened if it was from a news video or a still from an article, moo.

 

[MsBetsy]

I said that I thought "down" sounded just a little like "dan," but no one else agreed. pretty obvious that everyone thinks their own speech is 'normal' and everyone else has an accent ! I am more used to hearing more "ow"- ...a 'longer' word.

I can't make out any particular accent at all. I just know it doesn't sound like an accent from NY. I thought maybe it sounded slightly southern, but most people didn't think so, and I'm just going to assume he has an "Indiana accent."
At least I haven't heard anyone say he doesn't sound like he's from that area. Imo

 

[nwmouse]

I can't make out any particular accent at all. I just know it doesn't sound like an accent from NY. I thought maybe it sounded slightly southern, but most people didn't think so, and I'm just going to assume he has an "Indiana accent."
At least I haven't heard anyone say he doesn't like he's from that area. Imo

His voice sounds pretty generic to me.

No distinguishing features that stand out such as a drawl, lisp, accent foreign or domestic etc.

moo

 

[Jabarn]

if this is true, why would they bleep the middle part out? it would be easier to ascertain his voice.

Listening to it, there is a section of garbled noise in between “guys” and “go down the hill.”

The voice capture feed *maybe* was analyzed and edited to only include a clear voice of BG.

The reason for the odd distortion in between BG’s words, and not just making it silent between the captures of his voice, may have been done purposefully, and then again, maybe that is how the voice clip sounded and wasn’t edited.

At the last presser, and when Carter was finished, I remember watching uncomfortably when the officers had to put a microphone up to the computer speakers. Seemed like a low tech kind of way to approach a big presser like this. Not being overly critical, because I know the budgets are small, but it makes me think the voice clip was presented as is.

 

[gitana1]

It's been over two years. Makes you wonder if BG has, indeed, killed again.

Or tried.

Woman says she was grabbed and dragged by a masked man near Purdue University campus

 

[acutename]

I'm not sure what photo you are referring to but I can't remember if they used dogs or not. I don't remember reading about it, but someone else can probably answer that question.
I was replying to the idea that there was a lack of blood at the crime scene.
I think it may have been hard to tell, since dried blood would be a brownish red color which blends in with the earthy colors one would find in the woods. Especially in that time of year. Jmo

I meant that I cannot tell blood from leaves in the posted picture, but dogs (the sniffers!) would know immediately- dried, absorbed by soil whatever, IMO.

 

[ejtheintj]

@Charlot123

Sorry, I butchered the quotes because I was being an idiot and a noob. However; The thing you should know is that I am indeed an atheist from MA. And, that is why I don't identify with who I think could commit such a crime.
Anyways, I am replying below. Great profile on me btw. You nailed it!



You said:


"He is probably way less mature than his biological age. Probably a teenager in an adult body, and lots of these questions are the norm for teenagers."

I say:

Oh, I am sure his emotional age was that of a teenager whether it's due to hard-wiring, sexual abuse, whatever. I think it's fair to say that many people outgrow their religious upbringing once they mature, and start to question the purpose of their very existence. I do believe this person still fears that there's still possibility of some type of judgement by a higher power. And, those are certainly things that crop up during adolescence, but left unresolved for 20 years (As I think this offender in 30 something).... Well, something has to give. And, I don't think this person had many outlets for their sexual urges. And for a long time. Using a prostitute was too dirty and beneath him. Though that was about his only chance...


You said:

Re: torture instruments (I lost this in C&P land)


I say:

I don't agree. I don't think these were "torture" instruments -- though they were certainly for sinister intentions. They were instruments designed to subdue and sexually assault someone, tamper with the crime scene, and clean themselves up enough to emerge from the woods without blood spatter. I think the offender planned this to be a sexual assault, blitz attacking an unsuspecting person -- like a jogger/hiker -- before they could see his face. But, understood the very (sick) possibility that he may have to escalate his crimes if he was identified, or things didn't go exactly as planned. I do not believe the girls were tortured. I would guess there may have been postmortem mutilation, but it was more a desire to disguise the true motives for the crime. I believe these were soft kills.


You said:


I also have the feeling that he was daydreaming about a sadistic, erotic, encounter, for many years. Maybe since high-Middle school. What people in the town he used to live in might remember would be some anonymous letters mentioning some torture elements ("a rope. A lighter. A knife" - just as an example). Or possibly, he shared these dreams with peers. Anyhow, people wrote it off as part of him being "odd", but they may remember it now.

I say:


I don't think so. I think his erotic fantasies were consensual until his 20s. Likely with women who politely smiled at him, or, female friends he could never strike up the nerve to ask out. But, years of sexual frustration stewed into an immense dislike of women. Women didn't really reject him --- but, he ones perceived as such, when in reality he never pursued them. And, I don't think he shared such details beyond expressing his disdain for women. This person will never confess on his own... unless to spare his life.... not sure if Indiana has the DP?!? I don't think he's told a soul about the killing, but obviously he is following them. He might spontaneously bring up the case -- around his few friends, over a beer, but not much beyond that. My 2 cents.

Last edited: A moment ago

 

[Mamamerced]

Admin Reminder:

Do not mention or hint at any detail that may be contained in the scanner thread. PERIOD.

You may post a link to the scanner thread with a suggestion that it may be interesting. That's it. Do not bring one single detail up to the main discussion thread.

Thank you.

Is the restriction on discussing anything learned from the scanner due to liability issues? Although I am respectful of rules I am alays interested in the "why". Are you able to explain the reason to us?

 

[ab01]

if this is true, why would they bleep the middle part out? it would be easier to ascertain his voice.

I don’t think we can know for certain

But honestly I just don’t think they felt it was necessary.

there are probably certain things that they are aware that if they were to manipulate in a certain way, would leave loop holes while prosecuting

I think they are confident that someone who should know will know jmo

 

[Blueberry2720]

if this is true, why would they bleep the middle part out? it would be easier to ascertain his voice.

Speculation is that it was audio that :

1. had the girls voices freaking out, screaming, etc.
2. profanities
3. both 1 & 2

4. JMO - Another possibility is that parts of the audio we hear were some of the most clear and audible, and LE felt they were the best representation of BG's voice, esp. since it is his voice alone. There are likely other parts of the audio where the girls voices are mixed in with BG's, making it difficult to hear his voice in isolation

REMEMBER, the purpose of the audio is to hear - and have someone hopefully recognize - BG's voice. It is NOT meant for us gawkers to hear how the crime went down. Really, do you want to hear all that? I certainly don't. I feel for the LE folks who HAD to listen to it in its entirety.

 

[Jabarn]

@Charlot123

Sorry, I butchered the quotes because I was being an idiot and a noob. However; The thing you should know is that I am indeed an atheist from MA. And, that is why I don't identify with who I think could commit such a crime.
Anyways, I am replying below. Great profile on me btw. You nailed it!



You said:


"He is probably way less mature than his biological age. Probably a teenager in an adult body, and lots of these questions are the norm for teenagers."

I say:

Oh, I am sure his emotional age was that of a teenager whether it's due to hard-wiring, sexual abuse, whatever. I think it's fair to say that many people outgrow their religious upbringing once they mature, and start to question the purpose of their very existence. I do believe this person still fears that there's still possibility of some type of judgement by a higher power. And, those are certainly things that crop up during adolescence, but left unresolved for 20 years (As I think this offender in 30 something).... Well, something has to give. And, I don't think this person had many outlets for their sexual urges. And for a long time. Using a prostitute was too dirty and beneath him. Though that was about his only chance...


You said:

Re: torture instruments (I lost this in C&P land)


I say:

I don't agree. I don't think these were "torture" instruments -- though they were certainly for sinister intentions. They were instruments designed to subdue and sexually assault someone, tamper with the crime scene, and clean themselves up enough to emerge from the woods without blood spatter. I think the offender planned this to be a sexual assault, blitz attacking an unsuspecting person -- like a jogger/hiker -- before they could see his face. But, understood the very (sick) possibility that he may have to escalate his crimes if he was identified, or things didn't go exactly as planned. I do not believe the girls were tortured. I would guess there may have been postmortem mutilation, but it was more a desire to disguise the true motives for the crime. I believe these were soft kills.


You said:


I also have the feeling that he was daydreaming about a sadistic, erotic, encounter, for many years. Maybe since high-Middle school. What people in the town he used to live in might remember would be some anonymous letters mentioning some torture elements ("a rope. A lighter. A knife" - just as an example). Or possibly, he shared these dreams with peers. Anyhow, people wrote it off as part of him being "odd", but they may remember it now.

I say:


I don't think so. I think his erotic fantasies were consensual until his 20s. Likely with women who politely smiled at him, or, female friends he could never strike up the nerve to ask out. But, years of sexual frustration stewed into an immense dislike of women. Women didn't really reject him --- but, he ones perceived as such, when in reality he never pursued them. And, I don't think he shared such details beyond expressing his disdain for women. This person will never confess on his own... unless to spare his life.... not sure if Indiana has the DP?!? I don't think he's told a soul about the killing, but obviously he is following them. He might spontaneously bring up the case -- around his few friends, over a beer, but not much beyond that. My 2 cents.

Last edited: A moment ago

There is so much there that makes sense.

I had always thought of BG as a cold blooded heartless killer, but rethinking the maturity angle and struggles that led to this moment.

Everyone has a story to tell. Going to get off here for a while and hope resolution comes soon for the families of their lost daughters.

 

[zencompass]

DISCLAIMER: First time poster here, in fact, I made profile just so I could my amateur opinion. Many of the things I say will read as common sense, or, a culmination of other things I've read, heard, or listened to that resonated with me. So, please do not thing in any way that I am passing my thoughts off as my own, or, rehashing things that may have been stated 2 years ago. I had to sift thru numerous closed threads that I really would've liked to have read in their entirety, but, alas, I am here to add my own thoughts.

1. ) The fact that is offender is, or, was a local should go without saying. I grew up in New England, and while there were indeed picturesque covered bridges visible from the main roads, some hidden gems would only be known by, or easily accessible to seasoned locals, even with the advent of the GPS. I have no doubt that this offender spent a minimum of 30-40 hours walking these very same trails as a child themselves. I, myself, would feel uncomfortable in such a secluded place, and, if I came across that bridge - I would've been unlikely to feel comfortable crossing it. Even if I saw someone 2x my weight lumbering across it. Also, from what I can see, the trails end upon crossing the bridge, and, upon crossing the creek, seem to encroach upon private property. I may very well be wrong, but again, I am just coming up to speed/

2.) This is not a criminal mastermind. At all. I agree with @MassGuy that this is someone who was extremely lucky to pull off such a high risk offense in broad daylight.

3.) I do not believe this is a sociopath/psychopath, or likely to commit a heinous crime like this again. I think this a god-fearing person with a conscience, and is well aware of right and wrong from a biblical and legal standpoint.
How such a person descended into committing such a horrible crime is beyond comprehension.

4.) I do not this person would be described as charming, and, likely is incredibly social awkward around women his own age. In fact, I would venture a guess that this person has had limited, or, no, successful relationships with women. In fact, I would take a guess that this person has likely questioned their own sexuality, and, repressed their own desires in an feeble attempt to satisfy social norms more closely aligned to that which was taught int he bible.

5.) I would guess this person may be described as a bit of introverted, bordering on a loner -- but, does indeed have friends, family, and acquaintances -- but are unable to form close relationships with anyone in their age group, or express what is truly eating away at them.

6.) I suspect this person has deep-seeded body image issues, and, likely rejects themselves from men/women their own age, due to a perceived flaw that is likely not even noticeable. I think they're unable to express themselves and feel overly helpless, unlovable, and, destined to be miserable.

7.) I think this person certainly has ties to the community, and, could've been a former alter boy, eagle scout, an all american midwestern kid. I would guess that women, however, have found themselves uncomfortable around this individual, but few could put their finger on why.

8.) I think this person went to the bridg with added layers to conceal suspicious instruments, and, so they didn't emerge from the woods with blood spatter. I would guess they probably washed up in the creek. It doesn't strike me an organized offender, though some elements seem meticulously planned. I would guess he had binding instruments, some kind of chemical, like bleach, for instance, and a weapon. I think he ideally wanted a single, slightly older victim. And, wanted to do a blitz style attack before they saw his face, but, was prepared to kill if this was required during the commission of the crime.

9.) I don't think he had any direct contact with either victim, and the poor girls were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. I suspect they might've even encountered him once, or, more, from the parking, or along the trail, and they clearly felt unnerved. They might've politely said hi -- perhaps the offender was even attractive to them -- but I guess he just looked at them, and said little or nothing. This is NOT a charming individual able to lure unsuspecting victims with the ease of his voice and manner.

10.) I agree with a previous poster (quoting an FBI profiler) that the offender likely went off the beaten path, likely knew nobody was near the stream, and, once the girls crossed the bridge he had them hemmed in. He knew it was extremely unlikely that anyone would be coming from either flank, and, as I've studied the map it does appear this is kind of no man's land. No loop, basically a dead end unless you trespass. Someone kindly correct me if I'm dead wrong.

11.) I would guess the offender is mid 30s, and, clearly had some inkling that today there was no school and would be fertile for hunting. Unemployed? Perhaps.

12.) I am guessing he flashed a badge and/or weapon, and used some plea to authority, knowing that his added life experience wouldn't make it super challenging to overpower, or, trick the girls into a very dangerous situation. I am guessing it was something like:

"Guys, This bridge is very unsafe and you shouldn't have walked across it. Down the hill."

"Guys, I saw you litter. Down the hill to pick it up."

"Guys, this is my private property... Down the hill and "

Some type of authority as an adult, and, to make them feel like THEY did something wrong, when the reality was it was the other way around.

13.) I am guessing he posed the bodies, perhaps in a provactive position, as if they were sinner, like something out of leviticus. But, that was just to disguise the true motive of the crime, a successful or unsuccessful sexual assult, meant to confirm/deny his own sexuality.

14.) I suspect he identified the smaller of the two as most likely to be faster than her friend, and tried to subdue her first. But, he also knew they were too scared to move, and unlikely to leave each other.


Sorry if this was all pretty heavy, but it is my opinion. I could be dead wrong on ALL points, but, it's just a culmination of all that I heard, and, what my intuition tells me. I hope they catch this soon!

Dear @ejtheintj,

I am so glad you are on this thread!

Impressive, well-thought out theory and profile!

Thank you for laying out your discussion points.

I've bolded some of my words in purple so it may be easier to pick out the subject of the point.



1. Such a great point that it was not someone who was not from the Delphi area - no one would choose to venture onto a bridge that they have absolutely no knowledge of its current condition for the purpose of killing.

We have seen photos of the bridge with its missing and broken planks.

However, it would not seem as "treacherous" or "dangerous" to an individual who has walked on it many times - and as you say - possibly grew up in that area and was very familiar with the bridge.

2. Even a word I once used ,"brazen", is an understatement. There were other people - scattered about. There was luck involved - has that luck come to an end with the newly released sketch made in Feb. 2017?

3. Until he is arrested, we may never know why a seemingly regular guy who likely studied and worked in that area committed such atrocities.

For some reason this individual committed a monstrous act during the afternoon of February 13, 2017.

4. "Socially awkward" sounds logical.Would have had no girl/women friends to speak of. Lots of avoidance and likely deep resentment towards females.

5. and 6.

Uneasiness and nervousness around girls/women quite likely. That is picked up by others and does make people uncomfortable. That is, unless we know the person and know why they feel that way. Not the case with this guy.

He would be more comfortable around males but he would likely be wearing his "mask" of how he wanted them to see him. I see it as a type of "invisibility cloak" but in his case, it cloaked his disgust towards females.

He was/is not unlike a chameleon, in my opinion, around others. He was playing a "role" that would deem him acceptable, maybe even respected, by others in the community. As you say "deep-seeded body issues" and, I'd add immeasurable frustration. He was playing the part of the opposite of how he sees himself.

7. I agree with you that he's had various ties with the community. This would play into the role playing of the person he wants to be seen as. Part of the "mask".

There has likely been quite a bit of volunteer experience that he has given to the community - everything and anything you mentioned - from camp volunteer to church volunteer to scouting.

8. Great thinking about the extra jacket and clothing to remove once covered in blood. I never thought of this.

I believe he "disguised" himself - he was so bundled up with whatever was stuffed in that jacket.

We see Abby with her jacket open because, although it's in February - it is a sunny day. Juxtapose Abby's open jacket with no gloves/hat, with what he is wearing and it just doesn't "fit" with the weather. Had to have been a disguise.

9. I agree that this was a "disorganized" crime. He came "prepared" but the crime scene would inform the F.B.I. that he is a disorganized offender.

10. Although he was familiar with the trail and bridge, I agree that he scanned the area before his move. He knew that area like the back of his hand.

11. It was common knowledge that there would be no school that day. I'm thinking mid-20's to mid-30 years old.

Absolutely agree - the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was prepared to kill a female that afternoon, in that area.

12. I hadn't considered the authority angle. That is great thinking. Perhaps if the female were older, then he would possibly know that wouldn't work.

If he showed a weapon, my opinion is that it was a knife.

13. Posed the bodies in some way that had meaning to him. Also, a sign of a disorganized offender.

14. I agree that he went after the smaller of them first. He knew one would not run and leave the other.

Thank you so much for opening up all of your points in this discussion!

Because you've numbered each of the points, we can refer to them by number.

This is excellent!


This post contains only my own thoughts and opinions.

 

[Charlot123]

if this is true, why would they bleep the middle part out? it would be easier to ascertain his voice.

Because they don’t want the whole world to know what he knows?

 

[ejtheintj]

There is so much there that makes sense.

I had always thought of BG as a cold blooded heartless killer, but rethinking the maturity angle and struggles that led to this moment.

Everyone has a story to tell. Going to get off here for a while and hope resolution comes soon for the families of their lost daughters.

Could be. My responses were obviously with the "I say" as I butchered the structure of the thread. These are just my own opinions, worth barely 2 cents.

 

[BigTexas]

I do not know if this has been discussed before, but obviously Libby got pictures, audio, a video? of this guy. I am wondering why she didn't call 911...

 

[rubyrip68]

I do not know if this has been discussed before, but obviously Libby got pictures, audio, a video? of this guy. I am wondering why she didn't call 911...

I'm not sure how good cellphone reception is out there but IMO it was too late by the time they realized how dire the situation was.

 

[gregjrichards]

I do not know if this has been discussed before, but obviously Libby got pictures, audio, a video? of this guy. I am wondering why she didn't call 911...

Nobody knows for sure perhaps she was worried about drawing his attention to her phone if he heard the 911 operator. It has been mentioned previously that the cell/mobile phone reception can be patchy in the bridge location. I personally think things got really bad so quickly that there wasn’t time for Liberty to even try and call 911.

 

[CCJD]

Is the restriction on discussing anything learned from the scanner due to liability issues? Although I am respectful of rules I am alays interested in the "why". Are you able to explain the reason to us?

Just a guess but the scanner threads are for registered members only. To discuss the info there on threads that are viewable to the public/non-members sort of defeats the purpose of members access only.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I do not know if this has been discussed before, but obviously Libby got pictures, audio, a video? of this guy. I am wondering why she didn't call 911...

Women have a habit of not wanting to overreact. For years, talk shows and books have tried to reprogram us to listen to alarm bells going off in our heads. So if women are hesitant to be seen as overreacting, to take our own gut feelings seriously after all we know of this world, how much more hesitant would a teenager be? I believe this is part of the answer.