Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[StarryStarryNight]

Maybe I am wrong, but one thing here strikes me a bit: in a small town, population around 3000- there is way too much anonymity around, people seems not to know each other, like Delphi is some big city- Derrick doesn´t know the older guy, the older guy doesn´t know BG, the woman witness doesn´t know anyone of the before mentioned; the superintendent shows sketches nobody recognizes... It seems like whole community there is acquainted only to Alzheimer´s disease.

Thanks for this! I have been thinking this same thing for quite awhile. I also have thought it strange that although you run into rumors here and there, nothing is ever leaked by anyone. Though almost the entire town was looking for the girls, no one says anything about

I noticed the broken hinges on the 'shack door' like someone forced it open and then just laid the door back in place where it belonged.
Does anyone think the girls were herded at gunpoint to the shack
and assaulted there? Then taken to area where they were found
and killed there? We know they were found on private property,
maybe this is the private property being discussed.
moo

Between the time the girls see BG on the bridge and Libby’s Dad arrives and starts calling/looking for them, I’m not sure there is time for all that.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, I am very familiar with the Lazarus program and phasing at Gedmatch. They are helpful tools for any genealogist to have.

I'm sure the forensic genealogists working the EDJD case have used all available programs to further the narrowing of the DNA matches. I should have said it is unknown at this time if they have made progress in identifying EDJD's actual mother. I'm sure they do have the maternal side located, but they may be currently working the matches to finalize the mother's exact identity (just as is happening on the paternal side). I don't know. Since January, no more information has been forthcoming.

I sincerely wish them good luck. I used Lazarus myself, and it did a good job. I can't use it that well (archives are my dead end), but for the people of Western European descent living here, or in the countries with good church records (Finland is amazing!), it is helpful. And uber cool!

 

[Boxer]

Or someone that knows the perp?

MOO just an unaccounted for vehicl

I also remember a reporter at the news conference saying how LE told the families attending all the new stuff first and some were seen leaving in tears, they didn't stay for the PC. That has stuck with me and has two possible reasons in my mind. Either they were so disheartened by the news of the different strategy meaning they were starting from scratch or there was a possible connection to them, whether family, friend or just someone specific in the community.

MOO a reboot of the sketch is going to bring tears in my opinion. Beyond reasons of error or no error, this brings the crime up fresh, MOO they have learned to be narrowly stoic with the old factors.

 

[JustEve]

Shed in video- is that RL's property?
How close is it to area of 'parked car' they're looking for?
Yes, cemetery visit could be excuse of perp. LE would 'like'
that excuse.

No, the shed is across the road (to the north, road is W 300 N, I´d say, RL´s property is SE).

Here it is: Google Maps

 

[pepper 34]

*

 

[ab01]

Interesting as in the car is no longer in their possession. Wouldn't LE ask for proof or sales, or donation?

Personally I just think its more cut and dry than that.

They want to find out what car it is and who was driving it

I'm going with they only have info of a fuzzy recollection of it from 1 or more witnesses

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, I would think so. A paper trail would be good info.

At this point in time, I worry that the darn thing has been crushed for recycling, or dismantled and sold for parts.

Hmm... the owners don't leave any stone unturned, don't they?

While I think there was one person who was the culprit, how would one call the ones who help him? The Garbagemen for the Coward of Carroll County? Because if they truly understand what they are doing, then, morally, it is reprehensible.

 

[margarita25]

Personally I just think its more cut and dry than that.

They want to find out what car it is and who was driving it

I'm going with they only have info of a fuzzy recollection of it from 1 or more witnesses

JMO

Well that sounds promising (not).

We could be here a while folks. JMO.

 

[Yvettea]

This video is helpful. From the beginning, I thought it was possible that BG parked at the cemetery. He made his way to the bridge area but probably kept out of sight, while he waited for a potential victim to cross the bridge. He could've been there for a couple of hours, who knows? He spots the girls and waits for them to cross. Now, he could've followed them across the bridge; or he could've already been across the bridge but out of sight. If so, he could've pretended he was going to walk back across the bridge and, seeing that nobody else was in sight, he did an about-face and confronted the girls, forcing them to walk "down the hill." Now, if SA was on his mind, it's possible he intended to take the girls to his vehicle (which, in fact, is the direction they were headed, if he was parked at the cemetery), bind them, and take them to a secure location. Instead, the girls either resisted, screamed, or tried to run, so BG caught and killed them on the spot. Then, he high-tailed it to his vehicle and fled the scene. No one, in this scenario, even saw him. The low-res video and the audio remain the best clues to his identity.

Or... it could be the whole intent was to kill the girls, to silence them perhaps. Even to eliminate them and their meddling. MOO

 

[JustEve]

I'm not familiar with what door that this post is referencing, can someone enlighten me. Perhaps a link?

Page 24, post #463, there is a video of the Delphi cemetery and a shed in the vicinity.

 

[JustEve]

at 4:08 shack is obviously on private property.

Of course it is. Just a slip of the tongue.

 

[JustEve]

Thanks for this! I have been thinking this same thing for quite awhile. I also have thought it strange that although you run into rumors here and there, nothing is ever leaked by anyone. Though almost the entire town was looking for the girls, no one says anything about

Thanks!

 

[Jethro4WS]

Now THAT is thorough!! Can anyone remember a case where all or part of the crime scene was outdoors and they preserved it like this? At least 6 months of evidence collection. What dedication.

Deer Creek is a drainage fed system so there can be rapid changes in the depth of the water in short periods of time. On the day and time of the murders, for example, the depth gauge 1/4 mile upstream of the crime scene was at 3.5 feet but at the time they were located a little less than 24 hours later the depth had dropped by nearly a foot. The depth gauge had been up over 5 feet in the days prior to the murder.

In July of 2017 the depth gauge went from 3.5 feet to 15.75 feet in the span of 12 hours on one day. At that water depth, the water would rise over the surrounding banks and land right up into the area where the girls were found. Something like that event could have happened at any time there was enough rain in the area for a sustained period of time. So being able to preserve the crime scene for any great length of time was dependent on mother nature and would not have made it through the July 2017 event.

One other thing is that the area around the bridge was not off limits. There are a number videos (media and otherwise) that show people walking the trail and the paths through the woods in the week after the murders. One WS member was walking through the woods along a path (starts just to the left of the north end of the bridge) with others and had taken a number of photos along that walk and even described where evidence searchers were along the way. You can find all this way back in one of the early threads.

It was months before fencing was put up to keep people from even being able to cross the bridge. So who knows how many people had traipsed through the area where the girls were at the south end of the bridge, for example. Even with the area where the girls bodies were located there is a media video where one of the families had placed flowers in the location the Sunday after the murders. In fact, if you look at the media videos posted in the last thread or so where RL takes media folks down to the area where the girls were found on the Thursday after the murders (they had released his land back to him Wednesday night) you can clearly see that there is no law enforcement presence to keep anyone away from the taped off area where the girls were found.

The integrity of anything located outside of controlled areas will certainly be challenged. And it is unclear just how well the taped off areas were actually protected - especially at the south end of the bridge where this crime started. Any claim by law enforcement that they preserved the crime scene for any great amount of time should be given the side-eye because there is video and photographic evidence this is not true.

 

[Boxer]

Thanks for this! I have been thinking this same thing for quite awhile. I also have thought it strange that although you run into rumors here and there, nothing is ever leaked by anyone. Though almost the entire town was looking for the girls, no one says anything about


Between the time the girls see BG on the bridge and Libby’s Dad arrives and starts calling/looking for them, I’m not sure there is time for all that.

MOO perhaps police asked them to keep it confidential.
A poster a while back had said that in a town so small, someone is covering. I think that is a huge possibility. Police know it's likely too. That means police are also looking for that person, now a criminal too.

 

[Jax49]

Deer Creek is a drainage fed system so there can be rapid changes in the depth of the water in short periods of time. On the day and time of the murders, for example, the depth gauge 1/4 mile upstream of the crime scene was at 3.5 feet but at the time they were located a little less than 24 hours later the depth had dropped by nearly a foot. The depth gauge had been up over 5 feet in the days prior to the murder.

In July of 2017 the depth gauge went from 3.5 feet to 15.75 feet in the span of 12 hours on one day. At that water depth, the water would rise over the surrounding banks and land right up into the area where the girls were found. Something like that event could have happened at any time there was enough rain in the area for a sustained period of time. So being able to preserve the crime scene for any great length of time was dependent on mother nature and would not have made it through the July 2017 event.

One other thing is that the area around the bridge was not off limits. There are a number videos (media and otherwise) that show people walking the trail and the paths through the woods in the week after the murders. One WS member was walking through the woods along a path (starts just to the left of the north end of the bridge) with others and had taken a number of photos along that walk and even described where evidence searchers were along the way. You can find all this way back in one of the early threads.

It was months before fencing was put up to keep people from even being able to cross the bridge. So who knows how many people had traipsed through the area where the girls were at the south end of the bridge, for example. Even with the area where the girls bodies were located there is a media video where one of the families had placed flowers in the location the Sunday after the murders. In fact, if you look at the media videos posted in the last thread or so where RL takes media folks down to the area where the girls were found on the Thursday after the murders (they had released his land back to him Wednesday night) you can clearly see that there is no law enforcement presence to keep anyone away from the taped off area where the girls were found.

The integrity of anything located outside of controlled areas will certainly be challenged. And it is unclear just how well the taped off areas were actually protected - especially at the south end of the bridge where this crime started. Any claim by law enforcement that they preserved the crime scene for any great amount of time should be given the side-eye because there is video and photographic evidence this is not true.

My understanding of the "6 months" comment was that evidence was still being studied, NOT that it was still being collected. moo

 

[neesaki]

I say LE knows for a fact this car was seen (and tagged) on day
of murders and parked in area related to crime. There's no question this car was there and identified by license plate/registration. LE casually checked it out day or so after
murders but was assured by ALIBI of person owning car that
driver had perfect right to be parked there. The ALIBI person
was known as local person of integrity. LE being local where
everyone knows everyone says "Nothing to pursue here, this
guy's word is golden". Now fast forward, an outsider LE, says
hey wait a minute, maybe we need to take another look at
whoever was driving that car, that day. Repeat- an outside LE
like ISP or FBI went back to double checking the case files to
see what was missed the first time around. Outside eyes picked
up this misstep. This huge misstep.
PC showed community that LE on some level has to be eating crow right now because that car was a huge, neglectful misstep.
And maybe perp has been driving all over town in plain sight
because local LE bought the alibi's story without thoroughly
investigating it.
moo

This. Jmo

 

[Boxer]

My understanding of the "6 months" comment was that evidence was still being studied, NOT that it was still being collected. moo

IIRC they bagged huge quantities of leaves. They hadn't processed all items they had at the lab by August 2017.

 

[MistyWaters]

I also remember a reporter at the news conference saying how LE told the families attending all the new stuff first and some were seen leaving in tears, they didn't stay for the PC. That has stuck with me and has two possible reasons in my mind. Either they were so disheartened by the news of the different strategy meaning they were starting from scratch or there was a possible connection to them, whether family, friend or just someone specific in the community.

A few threads back iirc a WS member here posted a video of Press Conference that revealed the families were in attendance. Therefore it appears the rumour they left in tears prior to it even starting is just not true.

If you have a link to the reporter who stated otherwise, it would be helpful.

 

[fred&edna]

Has anyone heard any former FBI, law enforcement, "qualified, trained, experienced" speculators on HLN (or other news outlets), or reputable podcast, etc.... Suggest that they are worried/concerned as to how this investigation has played out for the past two years... Particularly in reference to the most recent sketch release/press briefing??

I haven't. But, I don't own nor watch TV, so I'm curious if I've missed even slight questioning or outright criticism.

I know I have my very serious doubts (X's 20) as to how this case has progressed, but I haven't really seen/heard anything but positivity from the speculating "authorities".

Is this out of concern for Libby and Abby's family members? 'Seems that hasn't always stopped investigative journalists in the past.

 

[sunshineray]

Even more baffling, and similar in “vibes” to the whole “oh, this old sketch is now the new sketch” business is, again, that older quote where it was stated there was no vehicle of interest.
(Looking for date on that again).

So, is this information old information then, or new information?

What ever the case, these investigations are fluid and dynamic and constantly changing as more information comes to light. This appeal may be the result of prioritizing information after other info has been ruled out.

So really one can not fault LE for not putting out this car information sooner bc really we don’t the whole deal.

May be old mixed with something new?

 

[sunshineray]

A few threads back iirc a WS member here posted a video of Press Conference that revealed the families were in attendance. Therefore it appears the rumour they left in tears prior to it even starting is just not true.

If you have a link to the reporter who stated otherwise, it would be helpful.

At the PC she was there and was talking afterwards, she was an attractive blond woman, very shook up by the whole "you could be in this room", comented how people and herself started looking around because it creeped them out. I'm not from the that part of the country so I don't know what station it was. I think I watched it on one of the major networks so she must be affilated?