Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #99

[ab01]

Dang...you quoted me after I had already deleted my crabby post hahaha!

Of course I realize they don’t need to relea

Hahaha I’m just busting your chops margs, frustration is high in here lol

And understandably, I’m just not sure that frustration is always focused in the right place

 

[Betty P]

I think Nevada started gathering DNA from all convicts who are currently behind bars. It will help in the future, at least.

Why not do it everywhere? In all states?

They just found the killer of a 13-year old girl. She was abducted and killed many years ago, before two of his incarcerations... he was staying under the radar, until he moved to CO. Changed the name, too.

IIRC, most states have agreed voluntarily to collect DNA, at minimum from violent offenders and above. But a recent article in USA Today highlighted some problems with states living up to that promise. It seems the responsibility in most states is at the county level. Some do it, some don't.

Articles about problems in Ohio. Everyone seems to be pointing the finger at someone else

Why Ohio's DNA collection law is missing thousands of profiles

Fremont PD, sheriff's office flagged for not collecting felons' DNA

Indiana only recently (2018) passed a law requiring taking DNA samples when felons are booked after arrest. Prior to that, they only took DNA samples if convicted of a felony. Some Indiana politicians are opposed to the taking of DNA samples from criminals, so that says something.

Felony booking process in Indiana now includes taking of DNA sample

Opponents of the measure, including state Sen. Mike Young, R-Indianapolis, suggested it runs afoul of 4th Amendment protections against illegal police searches because an arrestee's DNA record will be used for investigatory purposes, not just identification.

Indiana also has a program where, if your DNA has been entered into CODIS after a felony arrest, you can request that it be removed from CODIS.

ISP Labs: Request for Removal from the DNA Database

In spite of the reluctance of some to take DNA samples, the program is working:

Indiana sees progress on criminal investigations thanks to new DNA law

 

[x_files]

I never said this case couldn't be solved. I said it's not solved. The comment "hiding in plain sight" means that the man, like most, is probably working, going shopping, dining, etc... all the while, nobody knows its him.

He's probably not detached from society. He probably isnt a recluse. He probably didnt drastically change his routine.

The unveiling was announcing to the whole world "this guy we have been searching for is the wrong guy... here is another sketch that we are now looking for."

The shack was an impromptu, utterly irrelevant to the investigation, off-handed comment.

I agree with everything except that The Shack was named on purpose because suspect watched it or read the book.

 

[crhedBngr]

I think what a poster said earlier may be the case. What if the witness who generated the sketch a few days after the murders and the one that is now the focus, what if they didn't strike the police as very credible in the beginning. They had more eyewitnesses involved in sketch #1's creation and it favored the BG photos too. Something happened to eliminate sketch #1 for the investigators. Maybe in going back with a lot of re-interviewing and reevaluation of early tips may have led to an ahh-ha moment? Something came to light for the ISP to hold that last presser and talk so chillingly to the killer. We may have interviewed you, you are probably local hiding in plain sight, you may be in this room. Very direct and powerful statements. IMO

THIS^^^^

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I noticed the broken hinges on the 'shack door' like someone forced it open and then just laid the door back in place where it belonged.
Does anyone think the girls were herded at gunpoint to the shack
and assaulted there? Then taken to area where they were found
and killed there? We know they were found on private property,
maybe this is the private property being discussed.
moo

I'm not familiar with what door that this post is referencing, can someone enlighten me. Perhaps a link?

 

[TTF14]

That´s exactly the impression I got out of this "word salad" we´ve been served... They are looking for the car.
I hope to God they are concealing some better plan that I can´t decipher right now.

I hope so, too, but as of today I'm having a sinking feeling the sheriff's office bungled this one badly from the beginning . It may have been simple to disprove someone's alibi in the beginning (i.e. with CCTV footage of where they said they were or something), but now.....2+ years later??

I wonder how much CCTV footage they got from local businesses.....what was their mile radius?

 

[sunshineray]

The whole “I believe you have just a little bit of conscience left” sounds like a crock to me, just saying. I seriously doubt he’s going to feel so guilty and turn himself in because it’s the right thing to do in God’s eyes ( :rolleyes ) ; if anything, the only way I would see someone turning themself in is for notoriety and other ego related purposes.

Now this doooes bring to mind something though: say Carter really doooooes think “he may have a little bit of conscience left” (I doubt it, but let’s say what if)—well, then what might lead him to believe this? Could this be something specifically related to the crime scene or bodies, because I really find it hard to understand how LE would think someone who killed 2 little girls has any bit of conscience left.

Jmo.

Yes possibly the profiling done by the way the scene was left could have touched on this, indicated this. IMO

 

[margarita25]

I know right the audacity of them

I’m surprised they don’t just turn over all their evidence to the public lol

ETA 50 different random people would already be killed by pitchfork

Hah more than 50! It would make the Salem Witch Trials look like a happy hippy revival!

 

[x_files]

Maybe I am wrong, but one thing here strikes me a bit: in a small town, population around 3000- there is way too much anonymity around, people seems not to know each other, like Delphi is some big city- Derrick doesn´t know the older guy, the older guy doesn´t know BG, the woman witness doesn´t know anyone of the before mentioned; the superintendent shows sketches nobody recognizes... It seems like whole community there is acquainted only to Alzheimer´s disease.

the only explanation is that tourists were visiting or some rural folks never go into town to shop. That's so odd. 3,000 isn't a lot of people there's HS that have 3k students.

 

[JustEve]

I noticed the broken hinges on the 'shack door' like someone forced it open and then just laid the door back in place where it belonged.
Does anyone think the girls were herded at gunpoint to the shack
and assaulted there? Then taken to area where they were found
and killed there? We know they were found on private property,
maybe this is the private property being discussed.
moo

Excuse me, which shack? The one on the graveyard?

In my opinion, the girls could have been herded to the shack or anywhere out of sight.

Somehow I´ve always thought that they ran from the attacker on the end of the bridge towards the cemetery and the houses there, but he grabbed them when they were crossing the creek and then killed them there, on a private property.

It doesn´t have to be this way, of course.

 

[TTF14]

The whole “I believe you have just a little bit of conscience left” sounds like a crock to me, just saying. I seriously doubt he’s going to feel so guilty and turn himself in because it’s the right thing to do in God’s eyes ( :rolleyes ) ; if anything, the only way I would see someone turning themself in is for notoriety and other ego related purposes.

Now this doooes bring to mind something though: say Carter really doooooes think “he may have a little bit of conscience left” (I doubt it, but let’s say what if)—well, then what might lead him to believe this? Could this be something specifically related to the crime scene or bodies, because I really find it hard to understand how LE would think someone who killed 2 little girls has any bit of conscience left.

Jmo.

IF CCC has communicated with LE as we've wondered about, maybe he said something like, "I really need you to know I am not a horrible person and I feel bad about what happened...."

 

[x_files]

It appears they know who owned the car at the time of the murders but these two sentences worry me:

LE states,
"We're still looking for the car that was parked in the lot," Riley told News 18. "If somebody can give us that information, we want that information as quickly as possible."

So, it seems, that LE is looking for the car, itself. I'm wondering where the car is right now. Did someone report it stolen some time during the last few years while, in reality, they actually "ditched" it? If someone sold it or junked it there should be a record of that. Even donating the car to a charity group should leave a clear record as to where the car is now.

I'm assuming LE wants to have possession of the car, as they said, "as quickly as possible" so they can examine it for any forensic evidence that might tie it to the murders before someone can destroy that evidence. If this is true, I hope LE finds the car very quickly.

But, what I really hope (wishful thinking) ... is that LE knows exactly where the car is and they're watching it to see who comes to steal or destroy it and any evidence it might hold... and that's why they told the reporter that,
"We're still looking for the car."
Because they know BG is watching for news updates while chewing up whole rolls of TUMS.

This could all be incorrect. It's theory only and jmo.

Interesting as in the car is no longer in their possession. Wouldn't LE ask for proof or sales, or donation?

 

[Boxer]

I noticed the broken hinges on the 'shack door' like someone forced it open and then just laid the door back in place where it belonged.
Does anyone think the girls were herded at gunpoint to the shack
and assaulted there? Then taken to area where they were found
and killed there? We know they were found on private property,
maybe this is the private property being discussed.
moo

MOO if that were the case I think the forensics activity at the shed would have been extreme. There was some forensic activity at a family's barn across the road.

 

[Cherokee]

Here. If her father is deceased, but his family is known, and her DNA is available, there is a Lazarus program on Gedmatch allowing to reconstruct paternal/maternal DNA. The more closer cousins, the better, but if several of his sibs are still alive, it is the best.

Once they “reconstruct” the paternal DNA, they can do phasing to phase off mom’s side. And work with mom’s portion of find her matches.

Assuming parents were not first cousins, or brother and sister, of course. Incest happens, often in the form of rape.

Yes, I am very familiar with the Lazarus program and phasing at Gedmatch. They are helpful tools for any genealogist to have.

I'm sure the forensic genealogists working the EDJD case have used all available programs to further the narrowing of the DNA matches. I should have said it is unknown at this time if they have made progress in identifying EDJD's actual mother. I'm sure they do have the maternal side located, but they may be currently working the matches to finalize the mother's exact identity (just as is happening on the paternal side). I don't know. Since January, no more information has been forthcoming.

 

[cody22]

Yes, that makes sense as well. Which really brings us back to a possible family connection; did a relative of New Sketch Guy (NSG) give LE the car description? Is LE appealing to the relative's "little bit of conscience left"?

Clear as mud, and convoluted as heck.

JMVHO.

Today's coffee and donuts (@cody22 , and Everyone Else!)

View attachment 183052 View attachment 183053

HOOOORAY !!!!........Let me at 'em !....Thank you !.....oiiiiiiink oiiiiiink

 

[enelram]

Yes, imo I think this is possible which is exactly why I was curious about shacks, sheds etc to begin with, moo.

Re: “shack door”, are you referencing the shed in the video (I haven’t gotten to view it again yet), or another shack, RL’s property?

Shed in video- is that RL's property?
How close is it to area of 'parked car' they're looking for?
Yes, cemetery visit could be excuse of perp. LE would 'like'
that excuse.

 

[margarita25]

"Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

Just going off this quote from an ISP Sgt. She's at first ambiguous about even interviewing the suspect and then gets pretty definitive about "The person...gave...information they were looking for."

Is this quote as confusing to others as it is to me?

ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

Even more baffling, and similar in “vibes” to the whole “oh, this old sketch is now the new sketch” business is, again, that older quote where it was stated there was no vehicle of interest.
(Looking for date on that again).

So, is this information old information then, or new information?

What ever the case, these investigations are fluid and dynamic and constantly changing as more information comes to light. This appeal may be the result of prioritizing information after other info has been ruled out.

So really one can not fault LE for not putting out this car information sooner bc really we don’t the whole deal.

 

[crhedBngr]

Interesting as in the car is no longer in their possession. Wouldn't LE ask for proof or sales, or donation?

Yes, I would think so. A paper trail would be good info.

At this point in time, I worry that the darn thing has been crushed for recycling, or dismantled and sold for parts.

 

[enelram]

Excuse me, which shack? The one on the graveyard?

In my opinion, the girls could have been herded to the shack or anywhere out of sight.

Somehow I´ve always thought that they ran from the attacker on the end of the bridge towards the cemetery and the houses there, but he grabbed them when they were crossing the creek and then killed them there, on a private property.

It doesn´t have to be this way, of course.

at 4:08 shack is obviously on private property.
Post #463 for those asking

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, that makes sense as well. Which really brings us back to a possible family connection; did a relative of New Sketch Guy (NSG) give LE the car description? Is LE appealing to the relative's "little bit of conscience left"?

Clear as mud, and convoluted as heck.

JMVHO.

Today's coffee and donuts (@cody22 , and Everyone Else!)

View attachment 183052 View attachment 183053

I also remember a reporter at the news conference saying how LE told the families attending all the new stuff first and some were seen leaving in tears, they didn't stay for the PC. That has stuck with me and has two possible reasons in my mind. Either they were so disheartened by the news of the different strategy meaning they were starting from scratch or there was a possible connection to them, whether family, friend or just someone specific in the community.