IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[Bird of Paradise]

The bodies were found on the North side of the creek, approx 1/5th of a mile East of the bridge, approx 50 feet from the creek- Fact

They were taken 'Down the hill' from the North or South side of the bridge? - We do not know

Did they cross the creek - We do not know

Does that help? lol

IF only this could be posted at the top of each thread :banghead:

 

[TTF14]

Ok thanks but is t there a fence. So ppl can't get down to the creek ?

There's an opening in the rear of the cemetery. Go back and look at all of Nana's photos and posts/answers to questions.

 

[heidi76]

I know the time listed for the photo of Abby on the bridge was 2:07pm. Now I'm seeing that the billboards are saying he was last seen at 2:30pm. That's a 23 minute difference. I feel like that means they have alot more media they aren't sharing. It takes about 15-20 minutes to go down the hill and to the "found location". MOO
My wish is that the LE would give us more information so WSers could focus more on locating this person then reconstructing the things already known by LE.

I agree. There has to be a reason they're withholding so much, though.

Moo

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[#1nana]

there is but there's an open area about 3-4 feet wide where the fence is down and there's a path leading back to the bridge. It appears it's been a problem in the past with people using that path because someone posted a "no trespassing sign" stating it was private property

 

[Hatfield]

Ok thanks but is t there a fence. So ppl can't get down to the creek ?

A person or persons could easily walk from the cemetary and get down to the creek too from the cemetary.

No people type fence exists that could not be hopped over or walked around that I saw in the article. Sorry no link but it showed the path along the cemetary leading to the woods and people could easily get down to woods and creek from there.

 

[Eileen730]

I know the time listed for the photo of Abby on the bridge was 2:07pm. Now I'm seeing that the billboards are saying he was last seen at 2:30pm. That's a 23 minute difference. I feel like that means they have alot more media they aren't sharing. It takes about 15-20 minutes to go down the hill and to the "found location". MOO
My wish is that the LE would give us more information so WSers could focus more on locating this person then reconstructing the things already known by LE.

What more info could LE give us?
They gave us his voice and a vague photo of what he looks like.
I don't think anyone in that town knows this man.
I don't think he's on foot ....
He's a drifter imo lives off of disability or welfare maybe.
No one misses this dude cause he has no one in his life.

All jmo

 

[KyMom]

Yes. I suggest you read all of #1Nana's posts starting with last night and you'll see what another working theory is (one I believe). I involves the perp parking at the cemetery.

It would make more sense to me that they didn't cross the water, unless he had a vehicle nearby. The reasoning for that is if he crossed water with them, I would think having wet clothing would've surely made him stand out more if he had to travel by foot after leaving the scene. Not to mention it wouldn't be too comfortable having to walk far on foot with wet pants, shoes & socks (if he was wearing any) Unless he was able to hang in a secluded spot somewhere until they dried a bit, but given the temp that day, even if it was a little warmer for this time of year, it would probably take a while for them to dry. Can't see him wanting to stick around anywhere near the area too long.

 

[Bently]

Yes. I suggest you read all of #1Nana's posts starting with last night and you'll see what another working theory is (one I believe). I involves the perp parking at the cemetery.

I guess my mental problem and Paradigm with this, is that it reinforced my previous/original conjecture of all info in that he captured them on the south side and then took them back across the water to get back to where he was parked.

Instead of seeing Gray's video and #1's accounts as mutually exclusive, it reinforced to me that they did get captured on the Southside and they were marched back towards his vehicle (off south, across stream) to get close to his vehicle from the southside.



It just fits my original paradigm.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

When we were all discussing the possibility of Abby or others being blurred out in the video stills, it occured to me later that possibly

1) LE would then have others' pictures and could post them to ask anyone in the photo to come forward to give any info. about whether they knew the guy, interacted with him, his movements, etc.

2) If they were children but local, police wouldn't have to post the pictures but it would be easy to locate others through schools, neighbors, etc, in the photo and interview them for description or events.

3) If LE were able to interview anyone that is standing in the clip but blotted out to isolate BG then we would most likely have an exact description of him.

So, while I still believe someone is being blotted out, I think it is Abby. JMthoughts

Last line BBM -

Do you folks who believe that really think LE, FBI etc are that inept at blurring something or someone out of a photo as to leave a portion showing?

 

[HockeyMom330]

JMO

I am leaning towards the theory that the audio is later on and not at the time of the bridge photo.

I believe when we hear the audio it is the moment he is ordering them to go down the hill to where LE ended up finding their bodies.

I think the reason they went willingly down the hill is he either had a gun on them or he kept promising to them the whole time that he would not hurt them so long as they followed his commands.

I think once they walked down the hill then things turned bad. I think this explains how he got them to the location without having to lift or drag anyone.

I agree completely. The audio must be later because LE cannot confirm that the voice is that of BG, which leaves open the possibility that there is more than one suspect. If the visual and audio were simaltaneous then the image and voice could be tied together conclusively and likely would have been presented to the public as such.

I think Liberty captured the image of BG either accidentally or on purpose at a time when they sensed little or no threat from the man. I think she purposely recorded the 'down the hill' because at that point the girls were in danger, and her phone must have been out of sight (in a pocket or bag) so BG didn't grab it or destroy it.

 

[michiganmod]

The cyber expert says she taught a class on cyber safety to kids and Libby was in that class.

Cyber Expert discusses the case

http://wishtv.com/2017/02/23/cyber-expert-discusses-delphi-murders/

 

[pugsly]

JMO

I am leaning towards the theory that the audio is later on and not at the time of the bridge photo.

I believe when we hear the audio it is the moment he is ordering them to go down the hill to where LE ended up finding their bodies.

I think the reason they went willingly down the hill is he either had a gun on them or he kept promising to them the whole time that he would not hurt them so long as they followed his commands.

I think once they walked down the hill then things turned bad. I think this explains how he got them to the location without having to lift or drag anyone.

I agree that's much more likely.

I also wonder about the possibility of BG pushing Abby off the bridge (maybe Libby caught it on video) and he's ordering her down the hill after her.

MOO, of course.

 

[sascha]

Hi I'm not new, but new again, this case prompted me to log back in after 5 years. I think the girls crossed the creek under the bridge, I think they would have been scared to walk the bridge, and they saw the perp crossing the bridge, which prompted the picture, as in "why is this guy walking towards us on the bridge" I do believe he is local and probably familiar with the area, I don't think this was planned, but more another crazy creep finding an opportunity. IMO

 

[Gunther Toody]

All of this is speculation. The only people who have any evidence with which to come up with a workable theory is LE. We don't have an "Agreed Set of Facts". LE has not released ANY. We don't even know which end of the bridge they exited, or who exited at what time relative to everyone else. The only rumor I have is one sent to me by someone who talked with someone who talked with a search party member (LOL)... and that was that they went down the north end of the bridge and were dragged up the north side of the creek. Is that true? Who knows except LE.

We don't even know to what degree LE knows or thinks BG was involved. How long until BG's stills were taken to TOD. <modsnip>.

The only thing we know is that LE THINKS BG participated, and that LE does NOT know who the guy is or where. So the only thing USEFUL we can do is try to find him so LE can get back on the horse with some sort of lead. Tall order, to be sure.

An agreed set of facts could start with

"The girls were dropped off on the North side of the bridge"

"The name of the cemetery is Milroy"

"Its possible to see the bridge from the cemetery"

"There is a small parking area for 2-3 cars near the northern entrance to the path"

"The guy on the bridge may be wearing a hood or camo cap"

Get the idea?

 

[Dockins]

Don't we know if the girls attended church? If plans were mentioned the day before being Sunday, by one or both at church? I firmly believe BG is local and he is on the periphery of one or both girls' families' social circles. I don't think they know him personally, but he has been watching at least one of the girls.

 

[jbeth]

Does anyone think they will release more info (either video or audio) in the coming days if they don't nab the suspect? If they do have a real life POI in mind/collecting more evidence, my guess would be no, but it's so hard to watch the news with little to no updates. Imagine its a heck of a lot harder for the town/LE. So sad.

 

[heidi76]

Don't we know if the girls attended church? If plans were mentioned the day before being Sunday, by one or both at church? I firmly believe BG is local and he is on the periphery of one or both girls' families' social circles. I don't think they know him personally, but he has been watching at least one of the girls.

We don't have any information as to what they were doing prior to the crime, unfortunately

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[Daae]

I read that the investigators are looking for a backpack. If the BG is the murderer then maybe he is wearing it backwards under his jacket. I know it sounds strange but it looks like something is under his jacket. He looks so well covered for a sunny day.

 

[heidi76]

Does anyone think they will release more info (either video or audio) in the coming days if they don't nab the suspect? If they do have a real life POI in mind/collecting more evidence, my guess would be no, but it's so hard to watch the news with little to no updates. Imagine its a heck of a lot harder for the town/LE. So sad.

I think they're going to have to.

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[Coach M]

Personally, I don't see this is plausible. I think it's more believable he intended to abduct them, but got spooked during the walk back to his vehicle and murdered them in the woods. JMO but the idea that he left with them and then returned to the last known location they were, risking people may have already been searching there for them makes absolutely zero sense. He likely has no idea what time they were supposed to be picked up. Leaving and returning to the scene of abduction is highly unlikely.

MOO- Theorizing--What if there was a second perp that dropped BG off at the (North?) end of the bridge? They either saw or knew that the girls were there alone.. BG walks to the South end freakin them out, so they head back to the N end. This is where the abduction takes place, possibly into a vehicle. They drive to the cemetery for seclusion and force them into the woods. I'm not sure how we wouldn't have more phone recording in this situation, though.