IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[Falling Down]

My thoughts on the possible routes taken.

At 2:07 Abby and Libby were on the bridge and had crossed over the water. Abby is walking in the south/east direction in the snapchat photo.

At some point Abby and Libby reach the end (or close to the end) of the bridge on the south/east side. We know this because of the video stills of the . He is walking towards Libby's camera and towards the south/east end of the bridge.

The billboards that show just the , list the time as the being "last seen" as 2:30pm. This would possibly fit with the video stills.

To go "down the hill" at the south/east end of the bridge and cross the creek to the crime scene is about 450 to 550 feet depending on the exact route.

To go back across the bridge to the north/west end of the bridge, go "down the hill" and to the crime scene is over 2000 feet depending on the exact route.

Both routes will lead to the crime scene but to me the route from the south/east end would be more likely. Seems more isolated at the south/east area after watching all the videos.

Also, the bridge is in disrepair, and crossing all the way back to the north/west end would need to be done slowly and carefully. The bridge is about 850 feet long.

There was another person who said she arrived at the north/west side of the bridge at approx. 3pm. She said she did not see the girls.

Maps of possible routes. (2 different views)

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

http://wane.com/2017/02/24/fbi-expanding-billboards-for-tips-in-indiana-teens-killings/


https://bridgehunter.com/in/carroll/high/#Desc

I agree with your theory.

Too risky to go back across the bridge. Bridge Creek appears to have barely any flow, really. Very easy to cross. Deer Creek is shallow in spots, which is proven by the news helicopter video showing searchers walking across Deer Creek, mere feet from the crime scene.

One of Gray Hughes' excellent videos shows a clip of the searchers (searching for evidence in the creek), enmeshed with a news station's video of the crime scene. From the crime scene, the camera holder panned across. You can see the ridgeline, which ends up at the SE end of the bridge, and how it tapers down, as the road adjacent to it comes up (the road which becomes a private driveway, lesding to a house which overlooks Deer Creek).

MOO is the perp was in the park for a few hours, and he most likely checked the house to see if anyone was home. The house I'm describing is the one at the end of the road which goes underneath the SE end of the bridge. The distances are not all that large, really, it's not a large park by any means.

MOO is he confronted them at the SE end of the bridge, or just off of it (I think the girls were back in the trees a little bit when Libby took the video). Made them walk aiong the ridgeline a short distance, "down the hill", across the road, across both creeks, and then 50' past the Deer Creek creekbed.

It's a short distance. His vehicle was most likely nesr the cemetery. I think the girls saw him walking through the woods, when they were on the bridge, and maybe got nervous when he got on to the NW end of the bridge walking towards them.

I just think that fhe perp wanted to kill them in a very short period of time, so walking back across the bridge would have been risky, plus the likelihood of witnesses seeing them would have been much higher.

 

[No it's not]

Thank you again #1nana for the excellent captures. Here is a binder:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwS0FkdDNWS0wwSlU/view?usp=sharing

Please let me know, if I missed any images, thanks.

-Nin

 

[Cryptic]

I think the cemetery was nearby for possibly a few reasons. 1. Used prior and knew area - grounds, supplied service to (vault company or something), excavation - dug graves, was pre arranged spot with access closest to bodies, has family in cemetery, fished or hunted off this road/land (friend with land owner, or acquaintance), etc..

Good points. humans are creatures of habits- especially under stress. If this scenario happened, the criminal(s) would near automatically start at a point where they felt comfortable, even if their starting point did not make the most sense from a map study.

 

[Angelo]

I have been thinking about this bridge crossing, myself. How common is it that people actually CROSS? I have seen photos of people on it or near it, but it almost seems rare that people go across it. Well, because then they would have to cross it back again, right? So if this dude just crossed this sucker with a purpose, he has been there a whole lot before. His steps (as shown in the gif) don't look hesitant or tiny or nervous. They look confident. And he even has both hands in his pocket. Someone has seen this guy out there before. If it is not common that people cross, then that would actually draw attention, as it is. It would be like when someone goes up to the high dive at the pool and no one ever really jumps from it. Somehow, everyone wants to watch.

Agree! The bridge spans 853 feet. Almost 3 football fields. I don't think many people actually cross from one end to the other.

 

[teeandcee]

If this link is allowed, it's quite fascinating. He points out the areas to be careful of. I think this has been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edK8DJVW890

Yikes. I'd get halfway across on my hands and knees then have to evacuated by helicopter.

 

[liltexans]

Thank you again #1nana for the excellent captures. Here is a binder:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwS0FkdDNWS0wwSlU/view?usp=sharing

Please let me know, if I missed any images, thanks.

-Nin

Thanks, Nin. Would you mind adding this link to the media thread for this case if you haven't already?

 

[pugsly]

Can you provide a link?

Yep. Give drag Pegman over the trail and the spheres will pop up.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...e90d77fbaef542!8m2!3d40.5926352!4d-86.6480581

 

[WebSight]

I agree. 65 foot high bridge into shallow water probably would have killed her or gravely hurt her. So why drag her corpse or unconscious body all the way to the crime scene? He would have had to hide her to hide more time with his still living prey or the whole point of whatever we was attempting just makes no sense.
Jmo.

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Just thinking out loud here - he gets the one to help him carry the other to the spot. Easy compliance right there - she won't run and leave her wounded friend. Yuck.

 

[Lionheart1980]

Article states sex trafficking is thriving in Indiana

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2015/09/02/zoeller-sex-trafficking-thriving-indiana/71609602/

Just makes you sick to read. And the fact that Subway Jared was into what he was into... I would have never guessed. You really dont know what people are capable of. I hope if anyone sees the picture of BG and recignizes him, but thinks nah, he isnt capable of that, dismiss that thought. You dont know what people are capable of.

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[papillon2126]

While this may end up being true that the perp had a very detailed plan, I think sometimes its more about just being lucky. I have seen cases where people were within a few hundred yards away at the time something happened and were non the wiser. I think many times its not about a perp having some elaborate rouse, its more about impulse and being focused on their targets. More often than not the reason they get away is just simply happenstance. I guess my point is, even when a crime is committed in plain sight in broad daylight the perp can slip away if the stars line up just right and in this case apparently they did. That being said I think LE has enough evidence; some we know about and some we dont, that they will find him eventually MOO

Strongly agree!

 

[meanlittlemonkey]

I don't think the perp(s) are friends with the girls---i.e. the girls know him in real life. I think he prefer to act alone and anonymously. for a socially shy dude like him, spending hours/days/months stalking anonymously is much easier than befriended the girl. He doesn't have that kind of mental power to maintain friendship, let a lone meet in face-to-face.

Personally, I think the perp was somehow "turned on" by the girls possibly showing some gigglish fright when crossing the bridge. This most likely triggered his somewhat alpha mentality, or at least the thought that he could overtake them.

 

[Inthedetails]

Yikes. I'd get halfway across on my hands and knees then have to evacuated by helicopter.

I'll shout supporting words from a safe spot, on the ground, at the end of the bridge.

 

[pugsly]

Thanks. I just went and looked. Everything would be easy peasy if those snap pics were taken on the north side of bridge where 1. The entrance is. 2.The trails are. 3. The location of the bodies were found, and 4. The interest in the cemetery.

But the pics are on the SOUTH side and it's effing up my reasoning...


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They're all on the north side, so your reasoning should be good. Your map might be turned around if you're on mobile.

 

[JeannaT]

Okay. Thanks. I don't want to violate any rules.

So in the context of offering your theory on the case, can your share your thoughts?

 

[ninij9]

I agree with your theory.

Too risky to go back across the bridge. Bridge Creek appears to have barely any flow, really. Very easy to cross. Deer Creek is shallow in spots, which is proven by the news helicopter video showing searchers walking across Deer Creek, mere feet from the crime scene.

One of Gray Hughes' excellent videos shows a clip of the searchers (searching for evidence in the creek), enmeshed with a news station's video of the crime scene. From the crime scene, the camera holder panned across. You can see the ridgeline, which ends up at the SE end of the bridge, and how it tapers down, as the road adjacent to it comes up (the road which becomes a private driveway, lesding to a house which overlooks Deer Creek).

MOO is the perp was in the park for a few hours, and he most likely checked the house to see if anyone was home. The house I'm describing is the one at the end of the road which goes underneath the SE end of the bridge. The distances are not all that large, really, it's not a large park by any means.

MOO is he confronted them at the SE end of the bridge, or just off of it (I think the girls were back in the trees a little bit when Libby took the video). Made them walk aiong the ridgeline a short distance, "down the hill", across the road, across both creeks, and then 50' past the Deer Creek creekbed.

It's a short distance. His vehicle was most likely nesr the cemetery. I think the girls saw him walking through the woods, when they were on the bridge, and maybe got nervous when he got on to the NW end of the bridge walking towards them.

I just think that fhe perp wanted to kill them in a very short period of time, so walking back across the bridge would have been risky, plus the likelihood of witnesses seeing them would have been much higher.

I agree with everything but the car at the cemetery. I suggest he walked due to LEs lack of stating if anyone saw any suspicious vehicles and specifically asked if anyone remembered seeing a hitchhiker or walker on the road on the 13th. And also seeing if he dumped a duffle type bag.

Hey, which brings me to thinking they KNOW it's only one perp because I believe they would have said suspicious "hitchhikers" instead of hitchhiker. Jmo, moo.

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[skibaboo]

[video=twitter;836273728472260613]https://twitter.com/Shannon_Houser/status/836273728472260613[/video]

Shannon HouserVerified account‏@Shannon_Houser 13m13 minutes ago
@IndStatePolice stopping drivers in #Delphi handing out fliers with pics and info on tip line.

 

[whiskers]

Is there a barn or barns on the property owners land? If so, are they visible from the cemetery or bridge?

He could have utilized a barn. Especially if it wasn't too far off from the cemetery.

 

[teeandcee]

I'll shout supporting words from a safe spot, on the ground, at the end of the bridge.

I appreciate it!!

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree with everything but the car at the cemetery. I suggest he walked due to LEs lack of stating if anyone saw any suspicious vehicles and specifically asked if anyone remembered seeing a hitchhiker or walker on the road on the 13th. And also seeing if he dumped a duffle type bag.

Hey, which brings me to thinking they KNOW it's only one perp because I believe they would have said suspicious "hitchhikers" instead of hitchhiker. Jmo, moo.

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I think he walked in and out of the park/trail area as well. I've been thinking he stashed his car somewhere where it wouldn't cause attention, but that's just a hunch. But, I do think he approached and departed the area on foot.

jmopinion

 

[ab01]

I agree with your theory.

Too risky to go back across the bridge. Bridge Creek appears to have barely any flow, really. Very easy to cross. Deer Creek is shallow in spots, which is proven by the news helicopter video showing searchers walking across Deer Creek, mere feet from the crime scene.

One of Gray Hughes' excellent videos shows a clip of the searchers (searching for evidence in the creek), enmeshed with a news station's video of the crime scene. From the crime scene, the camera holder panned across. You can see the ridgeline, which ends up at the SE end of the bridge, and how it tapers down, as the road adjacent to it comes up (the road which becomes a private driveway, lesding to a house which overlooks Deer Creek).

MOO is the perp was in the park for a few hours, and he most likely checked the house to see if anyone was home. The house I'm describing is the one at the end of the road which goes underneath the SE end of the bridge. The distances are not all that large, really, it's not a large park by any means.

MOO is he confronted them at the SE end of the bridge, or just off of it (I think the girls were back in the trees a little bit when Libby took the video). Made them walk aiong the ridgeline a short distance, "down the hill", across the road, across both creeks, and then 50' past the Deer Creek creekbed.

It's a short distance. His vehicle was most likely nesr the cemetery. I think the girls saw him walking through the woods, when they were on the bridge, and maybe got nervous when he got on to the NW end of the bridge walking towards them.

I just think that fhe perp wanted to kill them in a very short period of time, so walking back across the bridge would have been risky, plus the likelihood of witnesses seeing them would have been much higher.

I keep seeing posters stating across both creeks maybe i am missing something but, I havent yet seen anywhere where there are two creeks to cross? Anybody have clarification on this?