IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #14

[Inthedetails]

If I understand the linked article correctly, Katie stumbled upon someone making meth and was killed. There was a meth connection due to her brother. Is that correct?

I still think this is very unlikely to be the motive in this case. This motive has been brought up in Lizzie and Lyric's case since day one and never been proven in that case. It was also brought up in Holly Bobo's case, but not proven. Of course, Holly was an adult.

I think it's much more likely that the Delphi perp is a pedophile who may or may not be connected to the meth world, but who killed the girls, not to retaliate against their families, but because he is a predator who likes hunting kids.

FWIW, there have been meth "factories" found in cemeteries. Personally, I don't think that has anything to do with this particular case, but thought I would toss it out there.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

If I understand the linked article correctly, Katie stumbled upon someone making meth and was killed. There was a meth connection due to her brother. Is that correct?

I still think this is very unlikely to be the motive in this case. This motive has been brought up in Lizzie and Lyric's case since day one and never been proven in that case. It was also brought up in Holly Bobo's case, but not proven. Of course, Holly was an adult.

I think it's much more likely that the Delphi perp is a pedophile who may or may not be connected to the meth world, but who killed the girls, not to retaliate against their families, but because he is a predator who likes hunting kids.

I agree 100%. I also think if someone was going to kill children in retaliation for something an adult did, they'd just do a home invasion or something. Not take a wild guess that they'd be able to pull it off in a park.

 

[Oregonmama]

But still, why kill them?

The girls put up a fight , the sp(s) plan didn't go accordingly to what their objective was.....

After seeing the pics that were posted last night of the area/trails, there is a good possibility that the sp(s) saw the girls on the overpass or another area that was visible. The trails were not as secluded as I thought they were. Many ways to to get in and get out........

 

[IllinoisMissing]

With all due respect to Gray Hughes and his expert video, while I think it is 100% accurate as to placement on the bridge, I don't think he took them down the south end.

I think they encountered him more than once. I think they turned around to come back to the north end and he was either ahead of them, and then waiting or following behind.

I think he took them down the north end and they never crossed the creek. I think doing that would have been way too risky if someone spotted them...it wasn't warm enough to have someone not think WTH are they doing? Coming down the north end and following the creek makes more sense to me.

I think Libby captured his photo in her video at first while simply filming and then maybe because they got scared. I don't think you can rush across that bridge to escape.

I do think he made his escape via the field next to the cemetery.

JMO...and in all honesty, I don't think it matters. No one has come forward to place them at either end and we know where they ended up. We sleuth this because we can't do much else.

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[812Hoosier]

A lot of kids get killed because their parents do drugs. We had one here last year where a 7 year old girl got killed. But they aren't because the kids are specifically targeted, like alone on a trail. The shooter usually has bad aim and no regard for human life and they just shoot wildly at the family, house, or car. Unfortunately, they often hit innocent kids.

But kids could be specifically targeted. It's not too far fetched. In Katie Collman's case, she saw something she shouldn't have and was targeted. Meth can cause people to do crazy things out of paranoia and or retaliation.

 

[Cryptic]

I had a similar thought early on... it sounds extreme but who knows...

It appears as though these girls spent a lot of time on the trails, in the area, on the back roads (imo)... was there some grumpy dude who lives nearby that was annoyed by this? Sick of teenagers and kids always hanging around all the time? Someone protective of what they think is "their land"?

I think it is possible, but I also feel that such a person would of had escalating confrontations with other trespassers or "trespassers" and would have been recognized from the photograph.

 

[ninij9]

I see a lot of theories about the killer pushing one of the girls off the bridge. I think this scenario is highly unlikely.

#1 Killer loses control of the girl he pushed off the bridge.
#2 An injured girl would be difficult to move to the kill spot.

I agree. 65 foot high bridge into shallow water probably would have killed her or gravely hurt her. So why drag her corpse or unconscious body all the way to the crime scene? He would have had to hide her to hide more time with his still living prey or the whole point of whatever we was attempting just makes no sense.
Jmo.

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[Gardenista]

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but there are now several photo spheres posted on Google Maps that show along the trail and on the bridge. All taken in the last few days.

Can you provide a link?

 

[Mysteriousmystery]

Oops my bad. I could have sworn at the last presser they refused to answer the question on if they had found dna. So glad to see they have it. Anyone have an LE statement confirming it?

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I have since read an article where they retracted the DNA statement only saying they had fastracked the evidence they would not say if they had DNA or not. I'll look for the article

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[ab01]

Im trying to focus on the escape route. Because I believe BG went there with intent. The fact that he hasnt been caught seems to suggest he had a very good plan.

Looking at google maps/google earth, if I had planned this all out, and I needed an escape route, I would follow the creek east to the Iron Wilson Bridge. Its not terribly far. Its secluded. I feel like this spot has the smallest chance of being spotted. Has anyone looked at that area for clues? If anyone makes the trip check it out. If I didnt want to be seen, i would feel way more comfortable walking the creek than taking any other route out.

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While this may end up being true that the perp had a very detailed plan, I think sometimes its more about just being lucky. I have seen cases where people were within a few hundred yards away at the time something happened and were non the wiser. I think many times its not about a perp having some elaborate rouse, its more about impulse and being focused on their targets. More often than not the reason they get away is just simply happenstance. I guess my point is, even when a crime is committed in plain sight in broad daylight the perp can slip away if the stars line up just right and in this case apparently they did. That being said I think LE has enough evidence; some we know about and some we dont, that they will find him eventually MOO

 

[Spellbound]

Here you will see the cemetery (area with spotlights and searchers). There is a path that leads from the back of the cemetery down to the bridge and area circled where the girls were found. Makes sense since they said they were found on private property. There was a sign on that path that said "no trespassing, private property). The searchers confirmed they were found on the Northside of the bridge, 50 yards from the water. Hope this helps.

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Nana, your help has been invaluable! Thank you so much for the tour and photos, and your time and devotion.

I did have another thought as to how the girls may have ended up close enough to be captured. If they saw him coming across the bridge before they were going to come back across it themselves, they may have waited for him. Once he moved out the way, they would not have had to maneuver around another person. They thought they were being courteous to not make the bridge crowded.

It is all starting to make more sense now that we have a better visual of the area. You locals and the ones making maps have my deepest admiration and thank-yous.

 

[Lionheart1980]

What if there was no sexual assault?
Why would he kill them?

A comment they made?

DNA will only be useful if they have his DNA on file somewhere.

Maybe kidnapping. Human trafficking. Its possible. And it is an ever growing problem.

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[Oregonmama]

Same here in Florida!
But why murder them?

Sex trafficking is thriving everywhere

The plan did not go accordingly to the what the sp(s) wanted. The trails are not so secluded like I thought they would be. Where I am, trails are very isolated and not located in a city or town..

 

[Mysteriousmystery]

https://www.google.com/amp/wlfi.com...misconceptions-on-delphi-double-homicide/amp/
Here's the article about the DNA mix-up Sherrif Tobe Leazenby is the one quoted

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[Eileen730]

Because of drug retaliation against her family? Do you have a link? I know Jessica Lunsford was buried alive years ago, but that was done by a pedophile.

Let me see if I can find it.

 

[mpnola]

Has anyone local walked across the bridge, casual stroll, and timed how long it took?

I have been thinking about this bridge crossing, myself. How common is it that people actually CROSS? I have seen photos of people on it or near it, but it almost seems rare that people go across it. Well, because then they would have to cross it back again, right? So if this dude just crossed this sucker with a purpose, he has been there a whole lot before. His steps (as shown in the gif) don't look hesitant or tiny or nervous. They look confident. And he even has both hands in his pocket. Someone has seen this guy out there before. If it is not common that people cross, then that would actually draw attention, as it is. It would be like when someone goes up to the high dive at the pool and no one ever really jumps from it. Somehow, everyone wants to watch.

 

[terpstra1]

With all due respect to Gray Hughes and his expert video, while I think it is 100% accurate as to placement on the bridge, I don't think he took them down the south end.

I think they encountered him more than once. I think they turned around to come back to the north end and he was either ahead of them, and then waiting or following behind.

I think he took them down the north end and they never crossed the creek. I think doing that would have been way too risky if someone spotted them...it wasn't warm enough to have someone not think WTH are they doing? Coming down the north end and following the creek makes more sense to me.

I think Libby captured his photo in her video at first while simply filming and then maybe because they got scared. I don't think you can rush across that bridge to escape.

I do think he made his escape via the field next to the cemetery.

JMO...and in all honesty, I don't think it matters. No one has come forward to place them at either end and we know where they ended up. We sleuth this because we can't do much else.

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Interesting. Perhaps he passed them then turned around and came back. This may be Libbey took out her camera to film him.

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[thesensitivechild]

So true. My older teen asked for a regular camera for Christmas this year. She said, "I want a camera that is just a camera and a phone that is just a phone." She said it as if she came up with a brilliant new idea, lol.

Of course, she never makes a call on her phone. Text only.

jmo

This is great.

 

[Mysteriousmystery]

Oops my bad. I could have sworn at the last presser they refused to answer the question on if they had found dna. So glad to see they have it. Anyone have an LE statement confirming it?

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https://www.google.com/amp/wlfi.com...misconceptions-on-delphi-double-homicide/amp/
They did refuse to say if they have it or not just that the evidence is fastracked

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[Coach M]

So google says the average person walks at an avg of 3MPH, and walking at an avg of 3MPH you can walk 1 mile in 17-20 minutes.

As an example this is 1 mile away from the bridge pic

It would take me an hour just to walk across that bridge. I'm in pretty good shape, but not a big fan of heights.