IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #15

[Lmustang89]

Wow thread is so fast.

On my way to work this morning, the electronic billboard on I 75 going southbound to Detroit (Michigan) had a picture of the two girls and the to the left of them. Following this case but was shocked to see this. Have been seeing Danielle Stislicki (local missing) on the billboard daily.

 

[fred&edna]

Reposting these links to Gray Hughes' videos (mentioned by Jabarn above) There are two, I'll add link to other in next post.

Truly worth watching BOTH!!

[video=youtube;_TFz4citG68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TFz4citG68[/video]

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

Are rewards ever claimed?

A woman received the reward in the Jesse Matthew case:

"CBS 6 independently confirmed that Karen Monk will receive a reward for her quick-thinking actions that led to the arrest of Matthew over 1,000 miles from Virginia, on the Texas Bolivar Peninsula, near Galveston."

http://wtvr.com/2016/04/11/single-m...es-reward-money-for-jesse-matthew-arrest/amp/


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[Tealgrove]

BBM

It's very good advice to run and not let yourself be moved. I certainly would. BUT....


BBM

...The fact that there were two girls and it's possible he gained control of Abby first would make running next to impossible for Libby. Would any of us leave a friend behind, even though conventional wisdom says to run? I wouldn't. I couldn't. Whatever was about to happen, I'd stick with my friend. I couldn't live with myself if I escaped and she didn't survive. Even if I was thinking of running for help, I'd be afraid of what would happen to my friend in the meantime or if I couldn't find help. Maybe it's not rational, but who is thinking clearly in that moment? I wish running had been an option for both of them. But it probably wasn't.
JMO

I work in airports from time to time and had to go to "active assailant" training session and was so distraught over what I learned that day.

Essentially, run, hide, defend. In a nutshell there it is, however, the point they made over and over again, was "save yourself". We were instructed NOT to go back and help someone who had fallen, been shot, etc. etc. If you don't run or hide or defend, you have a greater chance of being killed and IF you go back to help another person you are almost certain to end up injured or killed.

I'm not sure it's in my nature not to go back and help. I'm not sure I could run to save myself if my co-workers, friends, or family needed my help. I would go back.

I would understand perfectly if the girls chose to comply and stay together.

This is so sad.

 

[anthro_phys]

I was replying to a post in thread #14 when it closed....

I agree. I have thought since the stills were released that he was 32-38 years old....possibly as old as early 40s.

It was just the first impression I had upon seeing him, and although I have wavered at times I come back to a guy in his 30's. I think the profile for SKs (if he is indeed a SK) would add substance to my doofus hunch.

Long-time lurker on this site; first-time poster. I registered to post, after reading all the threads.

Thoughts on some characteristics of this person, from looking at his stride and hip/knee positions, and what we see of his face:

1) His face appears to be young, because he's still showing fat deposits. From face alone, I would guess late 30s. But his body is that of a man in his mid-40s. I would guess 45, plus/minus a few years, so 43-48. He's probably been described as "baby-faced" by friends/colleagues. His skin coloration suggests he's sandy-haired or there's strawberry-blond hair in the family.

2) Although he appears stocky in his torso, he's fairly athletic and agile in his core and probably his upper body, though less so from his knees down. The sharp angle he's leaning towards his left while lifting his right leg in stride, with his hands in his pockets, tells me his hips are in very good shape (not arthritic or causing pain). He has good flexion in hip flexors and strength in his glutes to push off and land at that angle. If he was off-balance in the least in that step or he had a weak core he would have his arms out. So this is someone who has extremely good balance and has probably worked outdoors where he's had to use his balance and agility.

3) His knees appear to be stiff and lacking flexion. Most of his flexion comes from his hips and hip flexors. So he may be arthritic in his knees.

4) Something about his stride and balance suggests to me he is left-handed. I haven't mirrored the images to see if I would think the opposite if they were reversed.

 

[JnRyan]

I can't believe over an entire thread has gone by since I was last on here yesterday and I don't have time to go back as it is moving way too fast.

I've seen speculation that the killer and the girls crossed the creek. From experience, I can't really see that happening given the water depth, probable water temperature and the air temperature. I've come close to hypothermia twice in my life. Once was in the military when I was near the Arctic Circle in March. The other was as 20 y.o. hunting in LA. The air temps were in the low 50's and the water temps about the same. I was duck hunting alone (dumb mistake #1) and had just shot my last duck of the day. The duck landed on the side of the creek, latched onto a small tree root with its bill and stayed there. There was no way to cross and even I got to the other side it was a straight drop off of 6-8 feet down to the duck. I was determined not to leave it there so taking off only my hunting coat I and waded out up to waist in the water to get it. (That was dumb mistake #2.) I had a quarter mile to half mile walk to my car and just before I got there I was shivering uncontrollably. I could hardly get the key in the lock. I cranked the heat up all the way and it was several minutes before I could drive. It was 20-30 minute drive home and I was still shivering.

This guy has to contend with temps - water and air - about 10 degrees lower than what I dealt with. When crossing a creek it is difficult to know the depth for sure and you can easily end up in deep spot where you thought it might be shallow. I don't know how this killer intended to get out of there but he had quite a walk to the parking area unless he parked in the cemetery.

Talking to a kayaking instructor he said when you combine wet clothes with low temps, high 50 degree temps can be cold enough to cause hypothermia if the victim doesn't get dry clothes or someplace warm or both soon. Also, he stated one of the first lessons they teach kayaker's is that you don't want to wear "killer cotton". Cotton soaks up the moisture, doesn't dry quick and has no insulation properties when wet - IOW it accelerates the loss of body heat. You wear wool or technical material that dries quickly. This killer was wearing blue jeans (mostly cotton), maybe a hoodie (possibly cotton?) and I'll bet cotton socks. Unless the killer's car was in the immediate area, he would be very noticeable by his reactions to the cold after going a short distance. I'm not saying it didn't happen or it was impossible, but I believe it is highly unlikely.

On another note, driving down Interstate 64 in Norfolk today I saw one of the digital billboards near the combined turnoff to Naval Station Norfolk/Fleet Forces Compound/Old Dominion Univ. So they are here on the east coast already. And they wisely put right where a large portion of the area population who are likely to have recently arrived here from all parts of the country or still have family contacts from outside the area will see it.

 

[fred&edna]

Gray Hughes:


[video=youtube;AS24hYv_X8Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS24hYv_X8Q&t=20s[/video]

 

[Wsimm]

I'm not asking for opinion based on photos! I'm asking, do we have factual info from LE that these girls actually crossed the bridge from the north side where they were dropped off to the south!

 

[terpstra1]

Hindsight is always 20/20 for those of us who by the grace of God haven't had to make that decision. Libby did the best she could with the situation she found herself in. A different way to look at it is, if you were the one with the opportunity to flee, it would be the only opportunity you may have to save your friend. If you stay, you will both certainly die..if you run...screaming loudly and dialing 911 as you go she may still have a chance, as small as it might seem. It is the only choice that offers either victim a chance of survival..Libby truly is a hero for her bravery and what she has done to try to make sure we capture her killer.

Amen to this. I've read that in some cases the perp will flee from the scene if one escapes thus freeing the second victim.

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[lmadler]

Have any of you started looking at cold cases and missing person reports in the area to find similarities? I know we have no clear indication that he is a serial killer, but I figured I might as well look into it since we still don't have much to go off currently and it seems we are just arguing over the same stuff. So far I've checked all the Indiana cold cases and nothing jumped out at me. Thinking we should look over the entire tristate and midwest. If he is an SK, he could have taken a long break between murders. The GRK took a few breaks if I remember correctly.

Someone also mentioned hunting forums. Has anyone looked at that?

Thanks!

MOO

If it is a trucker, broaden the search. I googled pig nose rapist and it bought me after hours of research to an Indiana person. There is an algorithm it seems.

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[tokyorose]

Regarding how one would react, based on how I react when my husband startles me I'd scream and run in place. Accomplishing nothing.

This is the reason our military and LE personnel practice.. they hold mock scenarios where they are forced to practice reacting in a way that will keep them safe and resolve the situation. It's a catch 22 really because who wants practice escaping a murderer... but like anything else practicing what you would do is what helps because it would be second nature when or if it happens for real.

 

[WestieMom]

Question: do we have any factual information that girls actually crossed the bridge from the northside to the southside and completed the bridge or only speculation?

I've thought about this a lot today and My Theory at the moment is......The girls never crossed the bridge! I watched the YouTube video from Oct..... of the man crossing the bridge and was instantly nauses and dizzy! I think they wanted to cross. I think that was one of their intentions when they were dropped off at 1 o'clock, that and possibly finding a "treasure". I think either both girls or just Abby got out onto the bridge but only possibly 50 ( maybe a bit more) feet at the most from the north side! I wouldn't be surprised if both girls had hopes of completing the bridge, ending up on the south side. If they made it across and didn't want to go back, they could easily make a call and tell whomever was going to pick them up to do so on the south side! Once out there they realized I can't do it, but let's take a pic!


Along comes BG from the south side of the bridge walking across hands in jeans pocket. How impressive, what a feat, "let's take a video of this"! I'd take a video of this at my age (47)! Somebody walking across that bridge, doing something that I tried to do and couldn't, something that seems scary or impossible! "Let document this"!

I wonder how chatty in every day life either one of these girls were? If I were with someone, a girlfriend, my husband, older sons, I could see myself standing on that north side waiting for BG to cross the bridge and probably ask, " was it scary, how dangerous is it to cross" and so on and so forth.



In my head I can only imagine that BG was there several hours before these girls ever got to the trail. He knows that trail and he's been to the trail before. He's walked that bridge and I think he walked that bridge, that day possibly more than once! He knew who was home and who was not, he knew how many people he had seen walk those trails that day! He was on a hunt! What's the saying?.....Preparation equals opportunity (help me here)?


If there is any truth to what Im presenting I can only imagine BG's thoughts as he's crossing the bridge ...... "If those girls are still standing there at north side and I hear no footsteps or voices" .... This is it! He then takes them down, L or R of the bridge.

almost the same scenario I have envisioned!

 

[ha60]

I tried earlier, but it was nothing as fine as this person's. What's odd is it appears to be in backwards. Who pockets their gun like that? Especially if you're about to use it? IMO.

But what if it is a gun but not in the pocket of the jacket, but rather in a holster directly under the jacket? If the BG is left-handed, it would be easy for him to unsnap the jacket and reach for the gun. JMO MOO IMO:scared:

 

[LaborDayRN]

http://www.ancestry.com/cs/legal/lawenforcement

From Ancestry.com:

"Law Enforcement Requests in the United States
Ancestry will release basic subscriber information as defined in 18 USC § 2703(c)(2) about Ancestry users to law enforcement only in response to a valid trial, grand jury or administrative subpoena.

Ancestry will release additional account information or transactional information pertaining to an account (such as search terms, but not including the contents of communications) only in response to a court order issued pursuant to 18 USC § 2703(d).

Contents of communications and any data relating to the health or DNA of an Ancestry user will be released only pursuant to a valid search warrant from a government agency with proper jurisdiction.

If we receive a valid request under U.S. law to preserve records that constitute potentially relevant evidence in legal proceedings, we will preserve, but not disclose, a temporary snapshot of the relevant account records for 90 days pending service of valid legal process as described above.

How We Respond to Legal Requests
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Thanks kittymittons! Good to know.

 

[lmadler]

Yes, its so odd to me I cannot figure that out.

I wonder if the violence is escalated from other crimes.

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[terpstra1]

Not a stupid question I wondered the same thing. Since it took about a week to confirm? I may be wrong about that but IMO they collected it during the autopsies.😥

LE has never confirmed they found any DNA. I do believe they have atleast touch DNA tho

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[KenzieK]

So it appears there is much more footage and audio on the phone that was recovered. However, they only released a portion in order to preserve the investigation ?

I'm starting to think that there is very little additional video and audio. IMO LE may have just given that impression at the press conference so the perp would worry about what else they might have (or to get him to confess later by making him believe they had actual evidence). I do not believe the actual murders were recorded nor any assault prior. IMO there almost certainly is no video of those events (the perp would have noticed), and IF there is audio it's probably muffled and useless. LE has made it clear that they do not know if one or more people were involved. They did not say they cannot release that info, but basically said they do not know. If there was a recording they would know if there was more than one person involved. They would also know if the creek was crossed (which granted they may know anyway. we're just clueless here). My guess is the still of the suspect is just from a 10-second snapchat. Libby was recording Abby, and the guy happened to be walking into the frame. I don't think they were attacked right there on the bridge. Biggest mystery is the "down the hill" audio, but I assume that's about the only audible words that were captured.

I don't think LE is intentionally withholding audio/video to protect the investigation. I believe that unfortunately they don't have much (if anything) to withhold. If they do have more then hopefully they will release it soon. A faceless white man who says three short words isn't going to cut it. Abby and Libby deserve more than that.

 

[kellala]

would it be possible a contractor like bathroom remodeling guy? or any kind of worker needed strength

Long-time lurker on this site; first-time poster. I registered to post, after reading all the threads.

Thoughts on some characteristics of this person, from looking at his stride and hip/knee positions, and what we see of his face:

1) His face appears to be young, because he's still showing fat deposits. From face alone, I would guess late 30s. But his body is that of a man in his mid-40s. I would guess 45, plus/minus a few years, so 43-48. He's probably been described as "baby-faced" by friends/colleagues. His skin coloration suggests he's sandy-haired or there's strawberry-blond hair in the family.

2) Although he appears stocky in his torso, he's fairly athletic and agile in his core and probably his upper body, though less so from his knees down. The sharp angle he's leaning towards his left while lifting his right leg in stride, with his hands in his pockets, tells me his hips are in very good shape (not arthritic or causing pain). He has good flexion in hip flexors and strength in his glutes to push off and land at that angle. If he was off-balance in the least in that step or he had a weak core he would have his arms out. So this is someone who has extremely good balance and has probably worked outdoors where he's had to use his balance and agility.

3) His knees appear to be stiff and lacking flexion. Most of his flexion comes from his hips and hip flexors. So he may be arthritic in his knees.

4) Something about his stride and balance suggests to me he is left-handed. I haven't mirrored the images to see if I would think the opposite if they were reversed.

 

[lmadler]

The fact this guy has not come forward says a lot.

I don't think he will be taken alive. Dangerous situation

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[Steleheart]

Long-time lurker on this site; first-time poster. I registered to post, after reading all the threads.

Thoughts on some characteristics of this person, from looking at his stride and hip/knee positions, and what we see of his face:

1) His face appears to be young, because he's still showing fat deposits. From face alone, I would guess late 30s. But his body is that of a man in his mid-40s. I would guess 45, plus/minus a few years, so 43-48. He's probably been described as "baby-faced" by friends/colleagues. His skin coloration suggests he's sandy-haired or there's strawberry-blond hair in the family.

2) Although he appears stocky in his torso, he's fairly athletic and agile in his core and probably his upper body, though less so from his knees down. The sharp angle he's leaning towards his left while lifting his right leg in stride, with his hands in his pockets, tells me his hips are in very good shape (not arthritic or causing pain). He has good flexion in hip flexors and strength in his glutes to push off and land at that angle. If he was off-balance in the least in that step or he had a weak core he would have his arms out. So this is someone who has extremely good balance and has probably worked outdoors where he's had to use his balance and agility.

3) His knees appear to be stiff and lacking flexion. Most of his flexion comes from his hips and hip flexors. So he may be arthritic in his knees.

4) Something about his stride and balance suggests to me he is left-handed. I haven't mirrored the images to see if I would think the opposite if they were reversed.

:Welcome: anthro_phys !!

Thanks for registering