IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #15

[Elainera]

Hey everyone! I have been lurking for about a week, completely baffled and heartbroken about this particular case.

One thing that has bothered me since the beginning, is the time gap from them being reported as missing, to the discovery of their bodies. Has LE released the time or frame of time the voice recording occurred?

The reason I ask, as a native to Salt Lake City Utah, I'm taken back to the Elizabeth Smart case were so many of us searched for her, only to find out later she was up in the foothills literally behind her home which was searched, she actually could hear people calling for her?

It makes me sick to my stomach to think of what these two precious girls endured.

Has anyone put together a timeline according to what LE has released? Was this particular area searched prior to their discovery?

We don't know that information. LE hasn't given a timetable yet. I think we'll get one soon.

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Welcome to Websleuths!

:wagon:

There is a rough timeline floating around these threads somewhere. I think maybe GGE put it together? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

A timeline can be found in the media thread on the first page:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-maps-amp-timelines&p=13163455#post13163455

I suggest to consult the media thread for basic questions. The link to it is always in the first post of each thread. HTH

 

[NWOhio]

Galaxygal - I can't seem to find your photo post. I've looked and looked at BG's picture. I'm not close to Delphi, so it's unlikely I would know him, but I want this guy caught. Does he have a hat on, or is that his hair? In one shot it looks like he may have something in his hand? Is his sweatshirt black with a white spray paint - looking design?

 

[tokyorose]

I wonder what the law is for LE to go and collect dna samples from even random people. Thinking maybe certain check points or areas ect. Dna samples can show a family match, if even that came back as a positive, it's many steps closer.

LE can ask for people to voluntarily submit but they cannot demand it without a warrant.

 

[Eileen730]

That white loop coming out the top of his jacket looks to me like the handle of a plastic bag.
Maybe
He has it like that cause it's easy to grab and pull out of his coat.
Maybe has zip ties and.duct tape.
But that's what that looks like to me

 

[Confusion]

galaxygal - your photo enhancement is great. Can you divide his face in half and flip the right side of the photo over to the left so we have a full face? I could recognize this guy if I knew him, your enhancement is that good.

He looks late 20's to me.

It might give a general idea, and at least make people feel like they're looking at a real person, but it's not likely to look much like the real BG. I paint and sketch portraits for a lot of people, and I've never seen one with totally symmetrical faces. Normally, one eye is larger/smaller, higher/lower, shaped differently, more/less slanted/angled, etc.; eyebrows are almost always different lengths, shapes, fullness, etc.; lips, noses, cheeks, chins, etc. are also often shaped differently on one side than the other. Because of that, using the mirror image of one side to replace the other side will usually look like a completely different person. MOO

 

[Jabarn]

Crossing the river questions. (Wish I could keep up better)

Is it assumed or confirmed that they did cross the river? As a group?

Is it possible he brought their deceased bodies across?

If so, could he have floated them across in some manner?

Those are the same questions I keep revisiting. Gray Hughes' video analysis is so compelling the initial abduction occurred on the south side of the bridge.

He may have walked them back to the north side and down the hill, but that would be even more brazen. But this is a brazen killer, in broad daylight, with other hikers around.

I will add to it that there may have been a second crime scene, if they were led down the hill on the south side of the bridge, and the girls were then transported across the river to where the bodies were found. The investigators probably know, though.

This is my opinion only. There has been no release that either of the girls were wet or dry when found. Just hope everyone who can keeps this case in the public eye.

 

[steelman]

thats exactly what I've said all along. I think they're hoping they don't have to so the family doesn't have to hear the horror that comes next

If I had to take a guess............I'd say the main reason that LE is trying to hold off on issuing any more of the audio is because you can most likely hear both of the two girls pleading with the guy as they walk along, begging him to let them go, crying, etc.............. Knowing the audio you are listening to is some of the last things they will ever say would be very troubling to a lot of people.......and rightly so. It may not be so much what he has to say as it is what the girls are saying.

But we also know they have at least 5-10 seconds of moving video of him walking across the bridge towards the girls. Why they aren't releasing that to the public is the part that I am really struggling to understand the most. Seeing this guy walk and how he carries himself might be the biggest clue yet............and yet LE stubbornly refuses to budge on it. They have it, and they can release it.......but ??

 

[teeandcee]

That white loop coming out the top of his jacket looks to me like the handle of a plastic bag.
Maybe
He has it like that cause it's easy to grab and pull out of his coat.
Maybe has zip ties and.duct tape.
But that's what that looks like to me

I agree the location makes it easily accessible whatever it is. Try pretending to grab something from that location vs your pocket. It's far easier from the chest position.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I thought that too, but anything is possible. I don't think this guy was thinking straight to begin with. He might have had the barrel facing away from him b/c he did not have the gun locked - to make sure he wouldn't accidentally shoot himself. I don't think he could control those girls without immediate lethal force. JMO.

It could also just look like a gun and not be a gun. BUT it does look like one is in his pocket to me - just in a bizarre placing.

A few threads back it was suggested if he was left handed, it could be a gun in a holster.

 

[IndependentFeed]

What if his car was at the cemetery and he was trying to get them to his car with the ntention of abducting them and either they fought back or he heard people calling for them and panicked and killed them.

I'd say this is a pretty reasonable scenario. But then what's the "down the hill" thing all about? Seems like the hill would have to be referring to the one that led to where they were found and at that point he would be leading them away from the cemetery. From the bridge to the cemetery is mostly uphill or flat from my understanding (unless they exited on the south side of the bridge, went down that hill and crossed the creek).

 

[andalso]

It's not assumed but is certainly possible they went across. But the question would be why? Why would he risk being spotted crossing the creek with them if people on or near the bridge could see them? There is another isolated patch of woods near the south side of the bridge. Why not take them there instead? Thats why I think they may have went willingly into the woods near the cemetery and either the "bridge guy" followed them without their knowing or someone else was waiting.

Thank you.

All I can think of is that it implies he needed/preferred to be on that side of the river to leave. Enough so that he would risk moving/bringing them there. Why? Because of the cemetery? How does that play in? In a sick way, I presume.

Could the girls have wandered into woods? Absolutely! Did the same, at that age!!

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

Have any of you started looking at cold cases and missing person reports in the area to find similarities? I know we have no clear indication that he is a serial killer, but I figured I might as well look into it since we still don't have much to go off currently and it seems we are just arguing over the same stuff. So far I've checked all the Indiana cold cases and nothing jumped out at me. Thinking we should look over the entire tristate and midwest. If he is an SK, he could have taken a long break between murders. The GRK took a few breaks if I remember correctly.

Someone also mentioned hunting forums. Has anyone looked at that?

Thanks!

MOO

 

[Angelcat13]

He could have had a "sexual-type" offense but pled to a lesser "non-sexual" offense that wouldn't require registration or submission of DNA.

 

[her]

I tried earlier, but it was nothing as fine as this person's. What's odd is it appears to be in backwards. Who pockets their gun like that? Especially if you're about to use it? IMO.

Yes, its so odd to me I cannot figure that out.

 

[#1nana]

Logging off. Every night I pray for the families of these girls. For Delphi. For all the LE and their families. G'night.


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[interestedincases]

BBM: I learned this in self defense class in college. The question of whether I would apply it should I ever find myself in that situation..I don't know and I hope to never know. But, the mind is a funny thing when it comes to such intense scenarios. I completely froze the last time I needed to do anything but freeze. I didn't call 911 ( I should have), but I did grab my camera. Weird. It was nothing like what is being discussed here, but is interesting to think that what I thought I would do in such a scenario is not at all what I did in that scenario. I'm not sure how one prevents that from happening?

I agree it is easy to say I would do XYZ in an emergency, but when it really happens it's a different story. For instance, the other morning I was driving to drop my son off for school and I prepared to turn left. I looked right to make sure no cars were coming and I saw a 90-year-old man lying on the sidewalk yelling for help. My brain immediately knew what was happening, but my instinct let off the break and I started to turn left, my normal route. It was only a split second and I realized what I was doing and of course turned right and stopped and helped with the gentleman. But it was an emergency and you would have thought my instincts would have been to immediately right but they didn't.

I think the good human nature in us is to most of the time expect the best in people. I can't count how many times I have seen something weird happening but I tell myself it couldn't be (nothing illegal, just weird). So I can see where the girls at first probably thought it wasn't something like murder . Who would (except us here).

P.S. the 90 year old gentleman was ok. My dad lives in the neighborhood and came to help get him up. His wife was there and he had a scraped elbow but he was OK.


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[SilentRogue]

The fact this guy has not come forward says a lot.

Good point.


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[bethieb]

I have never posted before but have been a member for awhile. I joined for a case that I still follow daily and there is no arrest! I feel like I want to say something about this case because it hits close to home (my daughter could be these girls). I believe they knew BG. I don't know if they expected a meeting with him via SM or if he was a family friend /acquaintance but I feel they voluntarily went with him for some reason. I know many say that's not really plausible because of the girls would have said his name. However, I have listened to my daughter talk to everyone since then and not once has she addressed them by name. She says "hey" or "hi" but never "hi Mr. Smith" or "hi Mike". I feel this is the norm.


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[WestieMom]

I just had a thought. So if he met the girls on the North end of the bridge, there would be another route down to the river that's much easier than the steep embankment at the edge of the bridge. There is another trail that runs parallel to the trail to the bridge. I've attached a picture. The left (high) trail goes to the bridge. The right (lower) trail takes you down to the river. I wonder if they didn't cross the median in the middle and take the lower path-down the hill- to the river and under the bridge? That would have been way more secluded and less chance of running into anyone else walking the trail. You can see the guy in red going up that lower trail as I'm at the bottom.

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thank you i had not viewed this perspective - wow

 

[teeandcee]

Regarding how one would react, based on how I react when my husband startles me I'd scream and run in place. Accomplishing nothing.