IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #15

[BUF]

BBM

It's very good advice to run and not let yourself be moved. I certainly would. BUT....


BBM

...The fact that there were two girls and it's possible he gained control of Abby first would make running next to impossible for Libby. Would any of us leave a friend behind, even though conventional wisdom says to run? I wouldn't. I couldn't. Whatever was about to happen, I'd stick with my friend. I couldn't live with myself if I escaped and she didn't survive. Even if I was thinking of running for help, I'd be afraid of what would happen to my friend in the meantime or if I couldn't find help. Maybe it's not rational, but who is thinking clearly in that moment? I wish running had been an option for both of them. But it probably wasn't.
JMO

Same here Lillibet. I could never leave my friend.

 

[KyMom]

Growing up I'd say I was a pretty good kid. I didn't give my parents much aggravation & never got into any trouble really. I also knew about safety when I was out with my friends. That being said, I'm not going to lie & say I was perfect, esp in my teens, for instance..my friends & I went through a period where we would sneak & smoke cigarettes & on at least 2 occasions we tried something other than cigarettes and yes, there were a few times we also tried drinking. In each of these instances, we either had things offered to us or we asked someone who was old enough to get them for us.I guess we wanted to act grown-up or at times seem cool. I know we weren't the first or only teens to ever do this.

The reason why I mention all of this, is because I was thinking of the possibility of these girls not being lead away by force or fear, maybe they were lured by something else & had a false sense of security with the suspect. Probably not what happened, but still, just a thought.

 

[TTF14]

Geez...when I really think about this, it's unbelievable. Who murders two young girls? Yes, there are the family murder-suicides where kids are killed, but random strangers killing kids is off the charts. Even inmates will tell you that you don't kill children. It's taboo.

what kind of human are we dealing with here??

Mountainguy, that's exactly what's been plaguing me. Yesterday as I was out shuffling my kids around, I was stopped at a light (several states away) and I was sitting there quietly looking around, thinking, OMG! On this EARTH, somewhere in this COUNTRY there are sick and twisted evil people walking around this beautiful countryside (whatever state it's in) looking for innocent children to murder. It is seriously something you can't even comprehend as a sane and decent person, as you see other folks going about their business, proceeding through the light when it turns green, not a care in the world.

Jesus, come soon.

 

[IndependentFeed]

I'd like to see enough video to at least see the guy walk. There has to be that much they can release.

I made a GIF animation of the guy walking, not quite the same but I wanted a visual as well.
Can see it here:

twitter.com/IndependentFeed/status/835603949579350017

 

[andalso]

Crossing the river questions. (Wish I could keep up better)

Is it assumed or confirmed that they did cross the river? As a group?

Is it possible he brought their deceased bodies across?

If so, could he have floated them across in some manner?

 

[monkeypants]

I really think that upping the amount of reward money makes regular folks work hard to try to bring BG to justice. I really don't think it's about greed as much as it's about motivating others to work as hard as these agencies are working. That's just my 2 cents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed that is a lottery win for folks whose main income is from working at a hog slaughterhouse imo.

 

[sideob]

The bodies were located on property owned by Ron Logan. According to the news article below, he was away on the 13th and only returned to the 14th. Makes me wonder if the perpetrator was aware that Mr. Logan was away and was using his property as a base of operations. If that is the case, there may be past sightings of a trespasser on the property or in the out buildings. It is also possible that he may have had access to Mr. Logan's property as a casual worker.

http://wishtv.com/2017/02/16/police-question-multiple-people-in-delphi-girls-murders/

 

[Falling Down]

They also said they are unsure if the voice in the audio is the same as the guy in the video. Let's assume there's ONE file. One video file they're getting both the image from and the audio from. If that's true and if it's true that the guy approached them on the south side of the bridge, that would mean he is telling them to go down the hill on the opposite side of the creek to where they were found OR it would mean there is 5+ minutes of audio they haven't released because there is no hill to go down until you cross back across that 1000ft bridge.

I have a difficult time wrapping my head around it, myself. I had to figure out the orientation of the bridge, the spots where photos were taken, which direction Abby was headed in, which direction the perp wss headed in, and then make an educated guess as to how they ended up near the cemetery on private property.

It's why MOO is they were marched from the SE end of the bridge to their deaths, which is only maybe 600-700 feet from the bridge, if that

I think he had it all mapped out, was at the park on several occasions beforehand, and these two poor girls just happened to be there when he decided to strike.

Disgusting, really. A real monster.

 

[dredre]

I 2nd that!! Please Tricia?

While your in the mood maybe add an addendum at the end to the Bevers case pretty please! [emoji51][emoji12]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[liltexans]

This is interesting. Especially the part about Iowa, since some think Abby and Libby's case might be connected to Lizzie and Lyric's case.


Within nine years of Virginia's establishment of the first state DNA databank, the other forty-nine states passed laws requiring the collection of DNA samples from certain criminals for the purposes of establishing state DNA databanks. All fifty states require DNA samples from convicted sex offenders, with some states collecting from all classes of felons, as well as certain classes of misdemeanants. Additionally, the FBI estimates that most states will eventually begin to collect DNA from all convicted felons when the cost of collecting and analyzing DNA decreases.

Four states require DNA samples from all convicted felons, violent or non-violent, which means, for example, that in New Mexico an individual convicted of felony speeding will have his or her DNA profile included in the state databank. Additionally, at least eight states require the collection of blood from certain classes of convicted misdemeanants, and until 1997 South Dakota's DNA databasing law allowed the collection of samples from persons merely arrested for a crime. Under a Louisiana law effective September 1, 1999, law enforcement officials will collect DNA samples from adults and juveniles arrested for sex offenses or certain violent felonies.

Under Texas law, if an individual was previously convicted of a sex offense, or of burglary with the intent to commit a sex offense, then that individual is required to submit a DNA sample to the state databank upon subsequent conviction for "any offense," which could include non-violent felonies or misdemeanors.

Iowa is the only state that has not statutorily promulgated rules for which convicted felons and misdemeanants shall be included in the state DNA databank, but instead the Iowa law provides that the state's attorney general shall adopt such rules. When making the determination, the Iowa Attorney General shall consider a number of factors, including the "deterrent effect of DNA profiling, the likelihood of repeated violations, and the seriousness of the offense." Additionally, Iowa law allows a sentencing court to determine whether a defendant who will be placed on probation or work release must submit DNA to the state databank. Like the attorney general, the sentencing court must make the determination based on the defendant's personal history and criminal record, "the deterrent effect of DNA profiling, the likelihood of repeated violations by the defendant, and the seriousness of the offense." This provision of the Iowa law also provides that courts shall order DNA profiling "when funds have been allocated from the general fund of the state, or funds are provided by other public or private sources."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/case/revolution/databases.html

 

[steelman]

Please... LE --- if possible; release more voice recordings or info. !
Even if the perp is hiding-- or someone is hiding him-- it may rattle them enough that they freak out or somehow slip up.
I understand given the heinous nature of this crime, that more info. may not be able to be released due to its' disturbing nature.
But something.
If possible.

When that photo(s) of the BG was released... I thought "...It can't be long now--we'll get him !"

What drew me to this case was the possibility of a quick resolution because of the pictures and even a voice recording that have been made available.
But no.
:moo:

He's hiding in plain sight. I don't know that he's from that immediate community, but I'll bet he lives within a 20 mile radius or so. I imagine he's been asked by those that know him where he was that afternoon..........jokingly of course.........because the picture really looks a lot like him.................but then again, it looks like 100 other people in the same county. If he came up with a "family alibi" or a "wife alibi" and they all bought into it............well............nobody is going to pick up the phone and turn in old Billy Bob, now are they ? Nobody's ever known him to be violent or like young girls..............case closed as far as they're concerned.

 

[tokyorose]

BBM

It's very good advice to run and not let yourself be moved. I certainly would. BUT....


BBM

...The fact that there were two girls and it's possible he gained control of Abby first would make running next to impossible for Libby. Would any of us leave a friend behind, even though conventional wisdom says to run? I wouldn't. I couldn't. Whatever was about to happen, I'd stick with my friend. I couldn't live with myself if I escaped and she didn't survive. Even if I was thinking of running for help, I'd be afraid of what would happen to my friend in the meantime or if I couldn't find help. Maybe it's not rational, but who is thinking clearly in that moment? I wish running had been an option for both of them. But it probably wasn't.
JMO

Hindsight is always 20/20 for those of us who by the grace of God haven't had to make that decision. Libby did the best she could with the situation she found herself in. A different way to look at it is, if you were the one with the opportunity to flee, it would be the only opportunity you may have to save your friend. If you stay, you will both certainly die..if you run...screaming loudly and dialing 911 as you go she may still have a chance, as small as it might seem. It is the only choice that offers either victim a chance of survival..Libby truly is a hero for her bravery and what she has done to try to make sure we capture her killer.

 

[monkeypants]

Are rewards ever claimed?

I don't think that is public knowledge for safety of the person that turned a suspect in.

 

[klind55]

Assuming all the RSOs have DNA on file, then an unknown sample would exclude them. But I don't know for sure that all RSOs in Indiana and every other state for that matter have DNA on file. Some may not. I think it varies by state.

All states require dna samples from rso and last I knew it was maintained by the fbi

 

[Mrstruegrit32]

Not a stupid question I wondered the same thing. Since it took about a week to confirm? I may be wrong about that but IMO they collected it during the autopsies.😥

 

[samsmom]

It is on thread 14 after page 60.

Regarding face enhancement - Post 1005 (IMO can't figure out what it helps)

Post reads - What if I crop everything except the part showing facial feature (eye, nose, possible goatie)
face_crop.jpg

 

[DaisyChains]

So it appears there is much more footage and audio on the phone that was recovered. However, they only released a portion in order to preserve the investigation ?

It seems to me he must've scared them in some way before he attacked. Maybe his body language. In the still, his foot is raised in a manner that suggests to me that he was walking super fast. Anyone agree? I have a feeling he began approaching the girls quickly and it spooked them so one began filming. But he caught up and likely had a weapon he used to control them.

This is terrible. I wish they had run. It's important to teach our kids that they have a better chance of survival running away than complying. Even when the person has a gun. Don't let yourself ever be moved, transported or tied.

I think the man was not known to them otherwise he would not have been trailing them or have been alarming to them if they saw him approaching.

I agree that we should tell children to not comply, but at the same time I think this perp used one victim against the other. Ie: held a gun toward one girl to make the other girl comply. "If you don't do what I say I will shoot your friend!" We just don't know what to do until the situation presents itself. It is so easy to play monday morning quarterback.

Also many times perps will lie and tell a kid they will kill their entire family if they don't comply. False promises that if they do comply they will be set free. If not they and every one else they love will be killed.

Each case is different. It is so easy for us to play monday morning quarterback.

 

[her]

Hello, first post but I have been reading every thread as you guys posted. Except for half of the last thread. I actually had a lot of work today. A lot of good things have been stated/discussed. I do want to share my pictures that I worked up in PS of the BG.

I had created my own gif of him walking just for my own sake, I know its been created and posted by another a few threads ago too.

However, I did not see where someone showed the gun in his pocket. With his first photo where he is looking at the girls it's not as visible. Then in my opinion he looks down to not show his face and turns towards them and the outline of the gun just jumps out and smacks me in the face. This is all my own conjecture of course.

I made the images in b&w also to see if anything was easier to visualize. I did not alter the image except to add some more contrast.

I also do think he concealed himself, that he is not as thick as one may possibly believe. His legs appears thinner in the knees and items or something shoved in his coat. Other then that I cannot state anything about him, take it as you will its just my opinion.

SaveSave​

 

[Akweks]

galaxygal - your photo enhancement is great. Can you divide his face in half and flip the right side of the photo over to the left so we have a full face? I could recognize this guy if I knew him, your enhancement is that good.

He looks late 20's to me.

Great idea TeaTime!

 

[IndependentFeed]

Crossing the river questions. (Wish I could keep up better)

Is it assumed or confirmed that they did cross the river? As a group?

Is it possible he brought their deceased bodies across?

If so, could he have floated them across in some manner?

It's not assumed but is certainly possible they went across. But the question would be why? Why would he risk being spotted crossing the creek with them if people on or near the bridge could see them? There is another isolated patch of woods near the south side of the bridge. Why not take them there instead? Thats why I think they may have went willingly into the woods near the cemetery and either the "bridge guy" followed them without their knowing or someone else was waiting.