IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

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You very well could be right, but I personally will disagree with you on this. I totally think it all took place right there on the South end as he knew nobody was coming directly behind him and he wanted to get them down off the trail quickly so that nobody coming the other way would run into them. If you are him, why wait and follow without knowing how many people are going to come across the bridge from the north side, serving as potential witnesses to your crime? You also take the chance of waiting, following, getting to the other side, and then coming across more people on that side of the trail when you make your move.
I honestly think he saw his opportunity on the south side and took it. You are gambling when you are gonna commit a crime like this, and you are gonna go immediately when you see the coast is clear. You aren't going to risk anymore people stumbling across him and the girls by waiting any longer.
God Bless these two sweet children and may they look over their grieving family and friends, providing them comfort in the tough days ahead. Rest in Peace ANGELS Abby and Libby.

I see your point and you might be right. But he might simply have aborted if other people had turned up before he got to the girls and had them under his control and out of sight of the trails.
 
I've spent the last several days catching up on these threads. I can't remember the last time I posted to WS...Lyric and Elizabeth's case, maybe?

I know it probably doesn't accomplish anything, but for what it's worth, I just wanted to post my thoughts and impressions based on the evidence so far in Liberty and Abigail's case. All MOO, of course.

The photo of BG:

1) I absolutely do not think this is a homeless individual, as some have suggested. How would he ever get away without being detected? He'd be likely wearing the same clothes as in the pics, and would have been seen in them afterward...filthy, wet, possibly with blood on them. Or, he could have changed clothes...but then the clothes probably would have been found somewhere by now. Finally, he just doesn't seem disheveled enough to me to be homeless...clean-ish clothes, his facial hair does not seem unkempt or overgrown, nor does the hair on his head, etc.

2) His jeans look a great deal like the ones my husband buys for work...Wranglers, I think? We buy them from Wal-Mart. Probably a common jean for men in their 30's, 40's, and 50's who don't buy expensive clothes for work, or who don't have a lot of money, especially in smaller towns where Wal-Mart is one of the only places to shop. I see from a quick search that Wal-Mart has a store 22 minutes from Delphi, in Monticello.

3) At first I thought he had a goatee-thing going on. But on closer inspection, I'm wondering actually if that's not a mustache only? Kind of long on the sides?

4)I am very convinced that BG is at least 40 years old, and I'm leaning closer to 50. I'm not sure I can articulate exactly what it is about his body, posture, voice, etc. which leave me thinking he's in that age range. I think because my perception of the image, at least in part, subtly reminds me of a couple of men I know. And they are both in their 40's and 50's.

General stuff:

1) As others have expressed here, I am also convinced that BG knew the girls would be there. Whether he had pretended to be someone else and communicated with one of them online, or if he was stalking the SM of either one, etc. I 100% believe this was a crime he planned out all the way, down to the last detail. Unless he's the most skilled perp of this kind who ever existed, I just don't see how he could subdue two teenage girls so efficiently, finish the crimes, and get away...if he hadn't planned it out carefully. In the beginning, I wondered if it wasn't someone well known to one or both of them..but considering LE probably has heard interaction between BG and the girls from the recording on the cell phone...if it had been someone they knew, his name likely would have been used at some point.

2) I also wondered immediately if this case was connected to L & L's case. Only 6 hours away? So similar? So efficient? Sure doesn't seem like someone who has never done it before.

3) I'm on the fence about whether there was more than one perpetrator. But logic tells me it would be even MORE difficult for two or more criminals to be that efficient and avoid detection. Certainly not impossible, though.

I hope very much that there are VERY solid investigators working on this. These monsters get away far too often. I pray they catch whoever did this before they have the opportunity to do it again. My heart is absolutely broken for the girls' families and everyone who knew and loved them. What a horrible, horrible loss to have to endure. And I can't even think about what these poor babies must have gone through. My heart and mind just can't even go there. :'(

I remember you from L&Ls case, good to see you here. I said the same thing about the jeans (walmart, $18 or so) and compared BG to my husband's age (47). Also believe it was premeditated as far as everything BUT the girls goes... personally I think that part was a crime of opportunity. I think his fantasy/pre-planned scenario just happened to all come together for him that day and he acted on it, MOO.

think there's a great possibility it's related to L&L's case, too.
 
This is just a guess but I think that would be average depth because from fishing in many rivers and creeks the water level varies quite a bit depending on if it is narrow point or wider width.

So IMO I dont put a lot of weight into the posted depth of the river. I am sure it is an accurate average depth but I dont think it can tell us actual depth in certain spots on the creek.

JMO of course.

These were actual daily measurements.

ETA:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...17-16&p=13190297&highlight=depth#post13190297
 
HIGHLY doubt Delphi has Uber. I live in a fairly large city in MI that even has a university in it and Uber doesn't service this area. Lyft JUST announced last week they were starting to cover the area. I don't see a small town like Delphi having Uber and while I'm not certain my best guess is Lafayette nearby (unsure if it's even near enough though for Uber coverage to reach Delphi anyway if Lafayette has Uber) is no bigger than the area I'm in, if not smaller so... I'm going to guess no on Uber and such. But you never know. I was staying with a friend who lived in the middle of nowhere NJ. Couldn't get Uber but managed to get a 4am Lyft to take me to the airport so eh... but I assume the Northeast in general has far better coverage than here in the Midwest.


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We have uber drivers in my small town!!! no taxis... My college child goes to school in philly he is always taking a uber. I can go across my little town for 10.00!!! moo
 
NiN posted official data of the creek depth the day they went missing and I believe it was around 3 feet and a few inches, which IMO would be tricky to run in.. that's waist high or so on someone 5'3" (I believe they were around that - my - height, RIP).
In the video taken the day they were discovered I saw some areas were about ankle deep.

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It may be helpful to read Libby's Instagram photo comments if you're sleuthing the possibility of someone luring them to the bridge (I think it's unlikely). I don't want to disobey the rules so I won't share any more information.


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There is an unrelated video of someone walking the bridge (below). In it, he walks the bridge end to end in about 7 minutes, stopping to drop some rocks through missing beams and pausing to look around. I would think if someone were in a hurry, you could probably drop 30s-1min off that easily.

[video=youtube;edK8DJVW890]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edK8DJVW890[/video]
 
For those that are familiar with the area, how far of a walk is the time stamped photo and the drop off location?
 
These were actual daily measurements.

Understood but where exactly did they measure it?

Did they take the measurements right under the bridge ?
And 50 feet down toward the cemetary?
And 50 feet further down what was it?
And so on?

Point is a creek or river will have varying depths depending on exactly where you are. Because a creek and river gets narrower and wider and has drop offs and flat spots all over the place.

No creek is consistent all the way down it that I have ever been on.
 
Hey guys and gals, I am out for the night.

# 1nana I responded to your last post on pg. 61 (I think). Not that it matters - it was short and not all that noteworthy actually!

I am somewhere very vague halfway around the world from most of you so for me it is well after midnight.

Oh, and over here, we PULL weeds, and STRIM the edges of our garden! Just sayin'

Solve it by morning, will you? Thanks!
 
My opinion! They were brutally murdered. I think the killer left a calling. LE knows hes done this before. Hence the billboards so fast! moo

Yes, and why the FBI was involved so quickly. MOO.
 
This is just a guess but I think that would be average depth because from fishing in many rivers and creeks the water level varies quite a bit depending on if it is narrow point or wider width.

So IMO I dont put a lot of weight into the posted depth of the river. I am sure it is an accurate average depth but I dont think it can tell us actual depth in certain spots on the creek.

JMO of course.

I agree. This video shows the investigators in different areas of the creek. Depending on where they are, the depth of the water changes.

At around 13:10 the investigators are in the water right in front of the crime scene, which would be the most likely place where a crossing would have taken place. The water is quite shallow.

https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/videos/10154523478509092/?hc_ref=SEARCH

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For those that are familiar with the area, how far of a walk is the time stamped photo and the drop off location?

About 2000 ft from the drop off / parking area on W 300 N (not 100% sure thats where they were dropped off) or about a mile from the bridge entrance leading in from town. So either approximately 2000 ft or 5000ft depending on where they were dropped off.
 
It does seem like he had been there before. Bringing his "kill kit" with him and finding two girls in that space on that day... then knowing where to kill them, place them . I believe this was premeditated and he catfished one of them and ask to meet her. He knew the location, planned the moments. I wonder if it was to be a solo meeting and last minute one said to the other I want you to come along. He had it well planned. I think it was a social media crime of sorts


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This post is spot on. He was prepared. I bet anyone who knows him has never even seen those clothes before. The jeans look far too big and try doing what I did earlier. I put on a t shirt, hoodie, a bulky coat a few things in my pocket, I looked like I weighed much more that I do.
 
Can somebody estimate how long it would take BG and the girls to walk each of the theorized routes (North vs South, Cross Creek vs Not Cross Creek)? Based on the 2:30pm time stamp on the photo of BG, and the witness account of who she did or didn't see in the vicinity, it might be possible to estimate the girls location around 3:00pm, when their ride was supposed to show up.

Also wondering if the witness who claimed to see a man and couple, described the man in a similar way to BG, or if it was a completely different male--and if so, has this guy been interviewed.

bbm - there was a time stamp on that pic? I must have missed that. Is this official fact?
 
bbm - there was a time stamp on that pic? I must have missed that. Is this official fact?

It's not official, but that's the time the FBI put on the billboard.

Edit- don't see it on the billboard now. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.


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There appears to be a shallow sandbar that runs from the South bank of the creek to the North side in the vicinity of where the bodies were recovered. Could a planned point of crossing or completely random. In the pic Angelo posted, you can see investigators standing mid-creek on that exact sandbar.
 
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