IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

[DatelineFan]

I thought it was known that first Monday that a sister one of the girls dropped them off.

I'm not sure... I'm just saying that LE possibly has many details about the day, and I don't think we should expect to hear most of them any time soon. It's so frustrating, but it's vital to a trial.

I've read the threads here, on the case I was involved in. Soooo many theories, and not one was even close. It took years to solve and WS was working with probably 10% of the information LE already had. I probably had 70% before the trial.

 

[terpstra1]

I'm letting go for the time being of any thoughts of this murderer having anything to do with sm. They've had 2 weeks to go through any and all computers and phones these girls have had access to. Usually you see an arrest very early on in these type of cases.

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[liltexans]

It may not be cold, in fact I doubt it is
But... I don't feel LE is any closer to an arrest than they were in the beginning. JMO

I believe they have ruled people out, which is progress. It's slow, tedious progress, but it's part of the process. One of the articles I linked early in this case quoted a retired detective saying something like "cases get solved because a person can't be ruled out". So I think LE has some people they still haven't cleared and if they cannot eventually clear one of them, that will be their guy.

 

[GGE]

I went to bed thinking WHAT IF...
Instead of being caught, this jerk went someplace unknown to kill himself. If you never wanted to be found, where would you end your life? In an old abandoned shack? Jump off a bridge with a weight attached? Just a thought...

Abandoned shack or deeply wooded area with wildlife that I thought would eat me and continue to make LE's job harder even after my demise, probably. JMO

 

[whiskers]

I'm thinking of other ways to gain access to the creek.

As kids we played in creeks all the time.

If the guy is familiar with the farmland on both sides of the creek, he would know how to get to places without getting wet. So that's when I go back to my theory (JMHO!) that they were lured away from the bridge, but then maybe put into a car or van. Then driven via another route to that part of the creek. This way there was no walking through water, etc.

 

[terpstra1]

Other people here who have visited the trails and the area this happened in said its sort of difficult to find unless you're familiar with the area. IMO, he had to have been fairly local at some point, not even necessarily living in Delphi, but somewhere near. Killing someone in broad daylight without getting caught is pretty crazy, so he seemed to have known the spot that would work for that. JMO.

I agree.

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[DatelineFan]

I know what it is like to lose a child, but I cannot imagine being a homicide survivor. I tip my hat to you!

Homicide/abduction. Totally not about me, and sadly another woman didn't survive. But thank you. I just want to give some perspective. It's amazing how much LE may have without us knowing. It's equally amazing how tight lipped witnesses can be when they understand how important it is.

 

[heaterann]

Other people here who have visited the trails and the area this happened in said its sort of difficult to find unless you're familiar with the area. IMO, he had to have been fairly local at some point, not even necessarily living in Delphi, but somewhere near. Killing someone in broad daylight without getting caught is pretty crazy, so he seemed to have known the spot that would work for that. JMO.

Could be or maybe he spent a day or two back there scoping out the place. SK and people who commit crimes in general (not all) are pretty smart, they have been smart enough to get a way with it more times than not. Look at our perp, over two weeks later and he's still out there even with an audio and video. IMO never under estimate your opponent.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I put this study up the other night but I think some may have missed it since the threads move so fast. I read another link another poster put up about abduction and murders of children that I also found interesting. Thank you for the link.

I thought I had read a link last year that the figure has now increased to 175 children a year who are abducted and murdered by a stranger.

The keyword to these kind of case studies are children who have been abducted and later on found murdered. I believe way more missing children/minors who go missing and never heard from again were victims of an abductor/murderer who was a stranger. These are the hardest cases by far to solve.

Younger children being murdered is still rare no matter who the suspects/offenders may be compared to other homicides in other age categories. Most children are murdered by their parent/s more often than any other offender. But parents or intimate others rarely abduct and then kill a child and it is even less likely to happen when the child is above the age of 12. Most parents who murder their own children will usually pretend the child met with an accident and will call 911and only after an examination and autopsy is the truth learned that the child had been purposefully killed. The stats changes drastically when an abduction has taken place.

When abductions/murders of children/minors do happen the majority of the offenders are strangers to the victims.

Here are the findings on the most in depth study that has ever been done on children who were abducted and murdered for those who may have missed it the first time.


2006 Child Abduction Murder Study

In late 1993, the Criminal Division of the Washington State Attorney General's Office undertook a 3-1/2 year research project, partially funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, to study the investigation of child abduction murder cases.

In this first research project, published in 1997, researchers reviewed more than 600 child abduction murder cases across the United States, then interviewed the investigating detectives. This data provided law enforcement valuable insight into what investigative techniques tend to be most productive.

Now the Attorney General’s Office has released a follow-up study, including 175 additional solved cases. The additional cases generally reflect and support the findings in the original report with several significant and definite differences:

With more killers identified, researchers found threat that the killer will be a friend or acquaintance is nearly equal to that of a stranger. * The stranger abductor/murderer remains at the top at 44% while those who knew the victim/s even casually was 42%.

The probability that the killer’s name will come up during the first week of the investigation has decreased.

The use of *advertiser censored* by killers as a trigger to murder has increased.

Key findings:

In 74 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child murder victim was female and the average age was 11 years old.

In 44 percent of the cases studied, the victims and killers were strangers, but in 42 percent of the cases, the victims and killers were friends or acquaintances.

Only about 14 percent of the cases studied involved parents or intimates killing the child.

Almost two-thirds of the killers in these cases have prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of those prior crimes committed against children.

The primary motive for the child abduction killer in the cases studied was sexual assault.

In nearly 60 percent of the cases studied, more than two hours passed between the time someone realized the child was missing and the time police were notified.

In 76 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction–and in 88.5 percent of the cases the child was dead within 24 hours.

Be aware that children are not immune from abduction because they are close to home. More than half of the study’s abductions took place within three city blocks of the victim’s home.


http://www.atg.wa.gov/child-abduction-murder-research

 

[Natisleuth]

Abandoned shack or deeply wooded area with wildlife that I thought would eat me and continue to make LE's job harder even after my demise, probably. JMO

If this were the case and he he had a family then you would think they would report him missing at some point, you know?

 

[JJ007]

I'm letting go for the time being of any thoughts of this murderer having anything to do with sm. They've had 2 weeks to go through any and all computers and phones these girls have had access to. Usually you see an arrest very early on in these type of cases.

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Ditto - I completely agree with this, unless of course it's some computer expert who was using a proxy on a drop phone via a pre-paid debit card or something. But, that's a lot of work and if that's the case we have future problems (or past) to deal with.

 

[Falling Down]

While I agree that its someone that knows the area I don't think a meeting between the girls or the perp were set up via social media . I think if it had been an arrest would already of been made. Its so much harder to be anonymous online then it is in real life . With the FBI working the case that would of been one of the first things they checked for

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If there's a SM connection, it could be something as innocuous as Liberty 'checking in' at the park, on one or maybe multiple SM accounts. I've seen on FB where a business might have a setting on their account turned on which shows who has 'checked in'.

Stretching this out a little bit, the perp could have been on SM, and merely been refreshing a page for the park. So for example, he's watching "Monon High Bridge Trail" on a SM account, keeps refreshing the page, and sees who is "checking in". Just a thought and it's one of my theories about how this horrible crime happened.

 

[GGE]

If this were the case and he he had a family then you would think they would report him missing at some point, you know?

Agreed. Just answering hte question put forth by the person I was quoting.. if I WERE to kill myself after killing the girls, where do I think I'd do it?

 

[LadyL]

Even if this was the case, in my opinion Norvell would have taken her phone for pics

She had a boyfriend? Link?

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[Falling Down]

The railway, it's Norfolk Southern, correct? I have a KML file of the entire railway but it's too big for me to add to the map and in other news I think I broke google earth

CSX also has extensive operations in Indiana, on this map you can zoom in and see a line runs through Lafayette.

 

[liltexans]

She had a boyfriend? Link?

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That poster is talking about another case of a missing girl, NOT Liberty and Abby.

 

[labam99]

If this were the case and he he had a family then you would think they would report him missing at some point, you know?

True, but you have to keep in mind the possibility this guy might be such a loner that he really has no family that keep in contact with him. I believe BG is a real loner, a picture of him and his voice have been released to the public, and yet no arrest, I believe very very few people know this man, including family. A true loner SK.

 

[melsmemories]

IMO I don't believe he would kill himself either. I believe that in a way he's enjoying the attention. He likes the fact he feels "special"

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[kittymittons]

Could be or maybe he spent a day or two back there scoping out the place. SK and people who commit crimes in general (not all) are pretty smart, they have been smart enough to get a way with it more times than not. Look at our perp, over two weeks later and he's still out there even with an audio and video. IMO never under estimate your opponent.

IMO, I respectfully disagree about SK's being pretty smart. Maybe he did scope out the place beforehand, I totally think thats a possibility. But I think it's a huge misconception that SK's are these genius criminals. Most SK's have pretty average or lower than average IQs. IMO, this guy has gotten lucky so far. Sure he's probably made some decisions that are helping him out, but it's just a matter of time before his luck runs out.

Here's a few links in regards to serial killers and their IQ's.

http://www.businessinsider.com/a-surprising-look-at-the-average-serial-killer-2015-5 (This article is using the data shown below)

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information%20Center/Serial%20Killer%20IQ.htm

 

[liltexans]

True, but you have to keep in mind the possibility this guy might be such a loner that he really has no family that keep in contact with him. I believe BG is a real loner, a picture of him and his voice have been released to the public, and yet no arrest, I believe very very few people know this man, including family. A true loner SK.

While he could be a loner, I have always felt that he isn't. I think this guy has a family and a job (or at least he did have a job--it's possible he recently got fired).

I think someone does recognize him, but they are either in denial or they are afraid of what will happen to them if they turn him in. Or maybe they have turned him in and the police haven't been able to follow up yet. They've received over 10,000 leads so far.