IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[SomebodyKnows]

I think whatever happened on that bridge happened quickly and within minutes they were out of view from the bridge. I would imagine between the creek flowing, leaves rustling in the breeze, and people being in their own little worlds, most people wouldn't hear or notice someone walking through the woods, even if they were fairly close by. I don't think we have a confirmed time on anyone being there except for the lone woman who was confirmed to be at the bridge at 3:49 pm. That would have been about 90 minutes after the Snapchat picture of Abby. She saw 3 other people there at the time she was there, but I don't know if they came prior to lone woman or after lone woman. That's a heck of a lot of time to get away from the bridge. My guess is you could be out of viewing distance in about 2-3 minutes at a brisk walking pace and to the area they were found in 5-10 depending on which route they took.



I don't think it was meant to be a quick crime. I'm not sure if it was Liberty's family coming to pick them up and yelling when they weren't there or searchers in the area that forced him to leave the scene. I think he was rushed and that's why they have the recording. I think he knew the cell phone was there and I think he didn't have time to find it and get out of dodge. But I also don't think he set out that day with the intention of two victims. I'm not even sure murder was his intention.




It appears in that picture that there is a mound of dirt there and maybe the leaves have just blown/settled off of it. It looks like the leaves have settled all around the high parts.



Looks like a well used trail to me. Specifically, that second bend towards the bottom where it curves back left looks a bit dug out, like people have slid a bit and pushed the dirt up. From my experience hiking around in the woods, it takes a lot of use to really carve out a trail like that. If it was just 3 people one time, I'd expect to see leaves smashed/disturbed and maybe some footprints or places where one has slid in the soft ground, but if you pushed the leaves back over, you wouldn't be able to tell it had been used. All just MOO.

I agree. Looks like dark dirt (mixed in with some coal that filters off the old coal cards that used to be transported there). No way of getting a shoe print in that mixture and at that angle with people sliding down.

Maybe LE got a shoe print of the perpetrator on the bank on one side or the other or on the sand bar in the middle.

 

[GGE]

"Someone is spreading rumors we have DNA on two subjects reference the Delphi investigation. That is not true. No one has been arrested." -sgt kim Riley

Not sure this is the one but this was from this morning or last night

[video=twitter;841467129920647168]https://twitter.com/isplafayette/status/841467129920647168[/video]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nah sorry I think Jax posted the one I was referring to, right before or right after my comment. It was an article, I guess from yesterday (not a tweet). ETA: that also spells it out though so thank you for finding that!

 

[GangaMa]

Could it be a revenge killing?

Someone was watching either girls' house. Killer wanted to make a point/statement to someone in one of the families (who exactly? I don't know.) so he planned a violent attack.

It happened that he was able to follow a car that day and it sadly ended up being Abigail and Liberty.

Just thinking out loud. MOO

This was my initial thinking, but we can't discuss any of the possible reasons here without dragging in family members. If it were true, though, it might indicate why the words "twist" and "complicated" were used. Douglas Garland in Canada (see ref at top of this page) had a grudge against one of the victims over a business deal, and one of the other victims just happened to show up at the crime scene. So it happens. We will have to let LE pursue that motive if they choose to do so.

 

[mollymae]

I think whatever happened on that bridge happened quickly and within minutes they were out of view from the bridge. I would imagine between the creek flowing, leaves rustling in the breeze, and people being in their own little worlds, most people wouldn't hear or notice someone walking through the woods, even if they were fairly close by. I don't think we have a confirmed time on anyone being there except for the lone woman who was confirmed to be at the bridge at 3:49 pm. That would have been about 90 minutes after the Snapchat picture of Abby. She saw 3 other people there at the time she was there, but I don't know if they came prior to lone woman or after lone woman. That's a heck of a lot of time to get away from the bridge. My guess is you could be out of viewing distance in about 2-3 minutes at a brisk walking pace and to the area they were found in 5-10 depending on which route they took.



I don't think it was meant to be a quick crime. I'm not sure if it was Liberty's family coming to pick them up and yelling when they weren't there or searchers in the area that forced him to leave the scene. I think he was rushed and that's why they have the recording. I think he knew the cell phone was there and I think he didn't have time to find it and get out of dodge. But I also don't think he set out that day with the intention of two victims. I'm not even sure murder was his intention.




It appears in that picture that there is a mound of dirt there and maybe the leaves have just blown/settled off of it. It looks like the leaves have settled all around the high parts.



Looks like a well used trail to me. Specifically, that second bend towards the bottom where it curves back left looks a bit dug out, like people have slid a bit and pushed the dirt up. From my experience hiking around in the woods, it takes a lot of use to really carve out a trail like that. If it was just 3 people one time, I'd expect to see leaves smashed/disturbed and maybe some footprints or places where one has slid in the soft ground, but if you pushed the leaves back over, you wouldn't be able to tell it had been used. All just MOO.

This is an excellent post. Very well thought out and level-headed. I agree with everything you've said :clap:

 

[cubbeegirl]

I was just posting this in the last thread, bringing it here:



With this case, it's just impossible to keep up with everything in the threads. When I come back to it after missing some, I start at the most recent post and read the posts in reverse order, so that I'll know if there's anything new right away.

I have always done that ...it helps to catch me up to speed , then I go catch up when I have more time .

 

[whiskers]

This was my initial thinking, but we can't discuss any of the possible reasons here without dragging in family members. If it were true, though, it might indicate why the words "twist" and "complicated" were used. Douglas Garland in Canada (see ref at top of this page) had a grudge against one of the victims over a business deal, and one of the other victims just happened to show up at the crime scene. So it happens. We will have to let LE pursue that motive if they choose to do so.

I know. I didn't plan on bringing any relatives into it. Simply in the grande scheme of things, it seems like a revenge murder to me. jmo.

 

[DeDee]

I'm also reposting this because it is so interesting, I did not realize the last thread was closing or I would have waited to post this:

A little earlier I posted a transcription of a telephone interview with the Sheriff. Between the comment below, and the other comment about the nightmare thing.. it sure makes me wonder what we don't know about what happened to the girls.

<snipped>

SL: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Uhhmm that was the same obvious concept or thought process we had as well because um, you know, as I've (stumbles on words and says Excuse me) shared with other outlets, that we've had our share of, even double homicides, but they were elderly folks back in the 90s and it turned out to be, um, unfortunately, grandchildren involved in their deaths, and uh, so yeah, we were able to catch those pretty quick, but uh, umm, this one's just, it's, it's got a whole new, it's got a whole twist to it that, even I, as a 30 year veteran, have never seen.

Excerpt from telephone interview (posted on the media thread):

this one's just, it's, it's got a whole new, it's got a whole twist to it that, even I, as a 30 year veteran, have never seen

Thank you, deugirtni. Clearly, the Sheriff is speaking of Liberty and Abigail and not about the dbl homicide from years ago so I hope everyone understands the Sheriff's statement. The Sheriff is telling us that what happened to the children is something that LE has not seen before. It is a twisted individual who committed this type of twisted crime.

 

[mkids11]

(Just reposting because I think it got lost before the thread change to #28)

I'm confused about the video recording (am not familiar with Snap Chat at all) but on most smart phones that I have used, when you press record, it automatically stops on its on after about 1 minute. You have to manually start it again. By using Snap Chat, does that mean that it will record and that you have to manually stop it from recording?

Also, I cannot understand why BG would have not taken phone with him. Does this mean that he possibly does not understand technology? Or did he want the phone found? Just having a hard time making sense of why BG left the phone behind....or perhaps he didn't have time and had to leave in a hurry(?)

This is such a senseless and horrible crime!!!

 

[Eclipse]

Could it be a revenge killing?

Someone was watching either girls' house. Killer wanted to make a point/statement to someone in one of the families (who exactly? I don't know.) so he planned a violent attack.

It happened that he was able to follow a car that day and it sadly ended up being Abigail and Liberty.

Just thinking out loud. MOO

I have wondered why someone would risk attacking/murdering two people on such a fairly well travelled trail in the middle of the day. The area surrounding it doesn't seem all that remote from what I read about either.
It just seems crazy risky unless he intended something quick- like a robbery, or took them somewhere else in a vehicle, intimidating them with a gun or saying he had a gun.

If he took them elsewhere and brought them back, it must have been either a SK type ritual/signature type thing or a revenge killing, wanting them to be found as a message to whoever the revenge was directed toward.

 

[OtisC]

I know. I didn't plan on bringing any relatives into it. Simply in the grande scheme of things, it seems like a revenge murder to me. jmo.

That is an interesting theory.

What are the factors you are using to determine that this seems like a revenge murder?

I am not debating your theory, just am missing the salient factors from which to build it.

 

[GangaMa]

"Not today, M***advertiser censored*er!"

Give this strong, prepared woman 5 big stars!!!!!! She kept herself off LE's victim maps!

http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/03/14/joggers-fitness-tracker-documented-her-brutal-attack-on-run.html

 

[GGE]

OT but the snow where I am is nearly 30 inches deep. There's no way to get out. I hope everyone is staying safe and warm and doesn't lose electricity, who is in the way of this massive nor'easter.

 

[OtisC]

Thank you, deugirtni. Clearly, the Sheriff is speaking of Liberty and Abigail and not about the dbl homicide from years ago so I hope everyone understands the Sheriff's statement. The Sheriff is telling us that what happened to the children is something that LE has not seen before. It is a twisted individual who committed this type of twisted crime.

I am not convinced, nor do I see reasons to place this theory higher than others, that the "twist" comment has to do with something specific related to what happened to the victims. You may be correct but I just don't see a bias towards that.

I believe the comment relates to the audio and video capture, however, that may be an incorrect theory as well.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[Ashley95]

It's clear to me that the Sheriff is NOT referencing the photo & audio as the "twist" in this case as some here have theorized.

He's talking about something else.

It's clear to me he isn't saying that, it's a matter of option. With nobody charged I think he just means a girl took a photo of a guy on a bridge that may have killed her that's a twist on usual killings.

 

[badhorsie]

Marking my spot here the old fashioned way.

Some random thoughts I am having, someone has seen the BG photo and KNOWS who it is. I'm sure of it.

That bridge TERRIFIES me and I would want no child of mine anywhere near that rickety old thing, I cannot believe that it is still standing and part of a trail.

When I think of the fear felt by Libby and Abby, it just breaks my heart. I do hope that their loved ones are able to find some comfort from somewhere

 

[SomebodyKnows]

Thank you, deugirtni. Clearly, the Sheriff is speaking of Liberty and Abigail and not about the dbl homicide from years ago so I hope everyone understands the Sheriff's statement. The Sheriff is telling us that what happened to the children is something that LE has not seen before. It is a twisted individual who committed this type of twisted crime.

That just makes my mind race...

I hate to even go there... But does that mean the positioning of the bodies?, and/or the cause of death??

Not to get too morbid here, but did he hang the girls? or position them in such a way that has never been seen or heard of before? I just can't imagine that if they found the bodies and there was (I hate to say) the "usual" sexual attack or "usual" brutality, that they have not seen that before. If that LE statement is accurate, this is just hard to imagine.

 

[Steleheart]

Does anyone know where Libby's parents are at? Where they reside? Why the grandparents were raising her? Are we allowed to ask these questions?

If I understand things correctly, family members are not up for discussion here. Their privacy and victim status is important and protected unless they are NAMED POI by LE.

Mike Patty, Libby's Grandfather held a press conference on behalf of the families and given several interviews.AFAIK we can discuss his comments insofar as what he himself made public. But his family or personal information is not for discussion. Public information, obits, public records, etc are not a stepping stone to discussing them according to Mods.

So this is as far as I know. I would suggest that any questions about that should be directed to Admin/Mods by the red triangle alert or by PM to a Mod.

Moo

 

[Elley Mae]

From the maps i have seen the location where their bodies were found is not visable from the bridge. As far as i know the image of abby was 2:07? The image of the suspect was 2:30? I don't recall seeing/hearing what time the audio of the "down the hill" was recorded. I am thinking jmo that was said on the way to where they were found. Jmo

I have wondered why someone would risk attacking/murdering two people on such a fairly well travelled trail in the middle of the day. The area surrounding it doesn't seem all that remote from what I read about either.
It just seems crazy risky unless he intended something quick- like a robbery, or took them somewhere else in a vehicle, intimidating them with a gun or saying he had a gun.

If he took them elsewhere and brought them back, it must have been either a SK type ritual/signature type thing or a revenge killing, wanting them to be found as a message to whoever the revenge was directed toward.

 

[liltexans]

[video=twitter;841729932548034562]https://twitter.com/EmilyWTHR/status/841729932548034562[/video]

Emily Longnecker@EmilyWTHR 7m
7 minutes ago

It does bring a total different awareness of how we go about our every day life--Woman on what's changed in Delphi since murders of teens

 

[liltexans]

[video=twitter;841730449269493760]https://twitter.com/EmilyWTHR/status/841730449269493760[/video]

Emily Longnecker&#8207;@EmilyWTHR 6m
6 minutes ago

It'll never be forgotten--Delphi resident on the 1 month mark since the loss of Abby Williams & Libby German with still no arrests 4 murders