IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #28

[zencompass]

Especially someone who knows no one at all in the case

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[ocgrad]

Could it be a revenge killing?

Someone was watching either girls' house. Killer wanted to make a point/statement to someone in one of the families (who exactly? I don't know.) so he planned a violent attack.

It happened that he was able to follow a car that day and it sadly ended up being Abigail and Liberty.

Just thinking out loud. MOO

I think this is quite possible. But if so, wouldn't the family know instantly who would be out for revenge? Wouldn't they be able to quickly point LE to the perps?

 

[sunshine5385]

I have a question. I have been following this case very closely and am wondering if someone can clear something up for me. Let's say the police have a suspect of extreme interest and have possibly have DNA match but it isn't enough for an arrest. If that's possible. I am unsure of how much evidence they need for an arrest. What would the job description be like of the undercover police officers that are tasked with trying to get close to their POI? Like what could they possibly be trying to get out of him by posing as let's say the suspects co workers? Just detail how POI acts or would they try to get the suspect to confide in them and get a flat out confession? That would seem unlikely. I'm just trying to think of ideas in my head of how an undercover officer could help put this in jail!!!!


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[Suglo]

OT I am jealous of those getting snow, though I hope people stay safe. I am a "summer-hater" out west, dreading eight months of heat ahead . One of those weirdos whose chronic health/pain worsens in hot weather instead of the opposite. Ugh...

Same! 82 today and praying cooler weather comes back.

 

[Elley Mae]

I feel like there is a lot of speculation here on things that we simply don't know. I've listened to that enhanced clip above, and I personally did not hear the "go" part of the phrase. Not saying it's not there. Just saying I did not hear it. To me, the inflection of his voice did not seem demanding at all. Almost sounded like he was answering a question. We also do not know when he made the statement either. We don't even know who made the statement. If he wasn't talking to the victims, then it for sure means that he was talking to an accomplice.

I agree not demanding sounding at all to me. I have thought that he was taking them to show them something. Then once off the beaten trail he attacked. Jmo

 

[Bently]

So we are just going to ignore that LE said they got the image/audio from her phone and just imagine that it was her ipad, laptop, console computer.

I have seen the articles links multiple times stating that LE got it from her phone. JmO

It originally came from her phone so it is not a false statement...and then they continued searching for phone in Creek maybe...

Leaving BG think they have it...


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Team South, and :moo: that they physically have her phone[/I], due to the wording at the ISP website :seeya:

http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

"Additionally, investigators have released a voice recording, extracted from a video found on Liberty "Libby" German's cell phone,......"

:moo:

 

[ocgrad]

I think whatever happened on that bridge happened quickly and within minutes they were out of view from the bridge. I would imagine between the creek flowing, leaves rustling in the breeze, and people being in their own little worlds, most people wouldn't hear or notice someone walking through the woods, even if they were fairly close by. I don't think we have a confirmed time on anyone being there except for the lone woman who was confirmed to be at the bridge at 3:49 pm. That would have been about 90 minutes after the Snapchat picture of Abby. She saw 3 other people there at the time she was there, but I don't know if they came prior to lone woman or after lone woman. That's a heck of a lot of time to get away from the bridge. My guess is you could be out of viewing distance in about 2-3 minutes at a brisk walking pace and to the area they were found in 5-10 depending on which route they took.



I don't think it was meant to be a quick crime. I'm not sure if it was Liberty's family coming to pick them up and yelling when they weren't there or searchers in the area that forced him to leave the scene. I think he was rushed and that's why they have the recording. I think he knew the cell phone was there and I think he didn't have time to find it and get out of dodge. But I also don't think he set out that day with the intention of two victims. I'm not even sure murder was his intention.




It appears in that picture that there is a mound of dirt there and maybe the leaves have just blown/settled off of it. It looks like the leaves have settled all around the high parts.



Looks like a well used trail to me. Specifically, that second bend towards the bottom where it curves back left looks a bit dug out, like people have slid a bit and pushed the dirt up. From my experience hiking around in the woods, it takes a lot of use to really carve out a trail like that. If it was just 3 people one time, I'd expect to see leaves smashed/disturbed and maybe some footprints or places where one has slid in the soft ground, but if you pushed the leaves back over, you wouldn't be able to tell it had been used. All just MOO.

It's my understanding that this hillside is steep and going down right there could involve some sliding and require digging in. I don't think this is a commonly used path to go from the south end of the bridge to the road. Also since this is behind the CS tape I wonder if LE didn't see something and scoop dirt and leaves up to analyze. Maybe someone who has used the bridge can tell us if this is a common path.

 

[OtisC]

Assuming BG had a vehicle nearby, do you think he planned to get them to the vehicle, under restraint, so he could take them to another, more private location? If so, perhaps one of the girls resisted en route to the vehicle and those plans suddenly had to be abandoned. BG may have quickly killed one girl and then caught and killed the second. Then he got out of there ASAP.

I have a few thoughts on this.

If he had planned to take a victim to another location, that plan quickly became more complicated.

Killing two victims in an open public area is very risky. The risk of forcing two victims a long (relative to location) distance seems exponentially greater.

Another factor that indicating he did not chase one down is that the bodies were found in a single crime scene. If there was a chase, it must have been short. In addition, the comments made by LE (or the grandfather) implied that the girls did not separate.

I do think it is probable that he intended to take a victim to another location to lessen the risk and to extend the time. My risk assessment assumes (without supporting facts) that he parked at the cemetery.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[Elley Mae]

Iv'e been thinking revenge for about two weeks now. I could be wrong. Every one of us could be wrong.

If & when he is caught i don't think any reason he gives will make sense to me. Jmo

 

[whiskers]

I realize that. Perhaps my comment didn't come across correctly online. It happens. No biggie.

If a person seems to be glued to this investigation who has never shown interest in anything like this before, that is a red flag.

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[pinkpan]

IMO I think there was something on that audio prior to the "down the hill" statement, such as a scream, crying, something that LE didn't want us to hear. The audio seems very carefully snipped.

I'm wondering if he might have been cursing, f'ing down the hill...if he said it quickly, the "g" may have not been able to edit out without compromising the word "down". It would also explain the interview from a couple days ago where LE said something to the effect that he sounds exasperated like he had to tell them again to go down he hill.

 

[michael.gartley]

Been lurking for a while, absorbing info.

Does anyone know if the original Snapchat images are archived somewhere?

There are many different versions (file format, size etc) from news articles, each having different compression artifacts that can be mis-interpereted.

I was hoping to analyze the closest thing to the original Snapchat images as possible. I have seen two versions of Liberty on the bridge photo that seem to be screenshotted by two different Snapchat users.
Thanks.

 

[ab01]

My phone sat in a toilet for two hours. I had no realized it fell in. I put a hair dryer aimed at it for several hours and it worked just fine.

Did you say OH s!@T......:drumroll:........be honest lol

 

[ocgrad]

LE has been very quick to dispell rumors, tell the public not to harass those who had search warrants served against them, and for the public to keep the speculation down. That's why it's such deafening silence that nothing is being said about RL at all. They KNOW that' his arrest was going to cause HUGE speculation, and yet.....nothing. Hmmmm

Right, it's fishy to me, especially since they were parked right across the road from him that afternoon on another search for evidence around that silo then arrested him late the same night.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Another thought is maybe he did intend to take them some where else but one of the girls told him someone was coming to pick them up at 3. Not knowing if they are telling the truth and risking being caught by someone coming to pick them up, he had to act fast and get out of there.

 

[Steleheart]

Been lurking for a while, absorbing info.

Does anyone know if the original Snapchat images are archived somewhere?

There are many different versions (file format, size etc) from news articles, each having different compression artifacts that can be mis-interpereted.

I was hoping to analyze the closest thing to the original Snapchat images as possible. I have seen two versions of Liberty on the bridge photo that seem to be screenshotted by two different Snapchat users.
Thanks.

:welcome: to websleuths michael.gartley!

 

[Dockins]

I'm wondering if he might have been cursing, f'ing down the hill...if he said it quickly, the "g" may have not been able to edit out without compromising the word "down". It would also explain the interview from a couple days ago where LE said something to the effect that he sounds exasperated like he had to tell them again to go down he hill.

That's what I've thought too, otherwise, why not release it?

 

[Steleheart]

I'm wondering if he might have been cursing, f'ing down the hill...if he said it quickly, the "g" may have not been able to edit out without compromising the word "down". It would also explain the interview from a couple days ago where LE said something to the effect that he sounds exasperated like he had to tell them again to go down he hill.

That's my thought as well. It sounded to me like a fraction of the ng sound. In fact that is what LE said to a reporter - that he sounds exasperated like he had to tell them again to go down he hill. Almost an exact quote and it struck me because in order to say that he has to know exactly what the perp said but he coyly made it sound like he was speculating :wink:

If I find that link before the edit deadline I will put it in.


ETA-Got it;

"Hopefully somebody recognizes that voice," said Slocum. "It sounds like he's a little exasperated, like he told them before to do it."

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/02...a-to-join-manhunt-for-indiana-girls-murderer/

IMO Slocum knows exactly whats on that recording but they are not releasing that and sso he makes this sort of speculative remark.

 

[Billy Mabou]

Thank you, i thought that the word "twist" was in reference to the case and not a specific thing.

Yeah I thought that was pretty clear, too. But I think at this point, IMO, there's so little available info that some are fixating on relatively insignificant (IMO) words. Or faces in trees. etc.

JMO.

This is what is said in the interview:

we've had our share of, even double homicides, but they were elderly folks back in the 90s and it turned out to be, um, unfortunately, grandchildren involved in their deaths, and uh, so yeah, we were able to catch those pretty quick, but uh, umm, this one's just, it's, it's got a whole new, it's got a whole twist to it that, even I, as a 30 year veteran, have never seen.

 

[ocgrad]

Forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has said, this thread moves so quickly.

All MOO and speculation of course.

IF we are to believe the FB post from a journalist saying that he/she saw clothes in the creek, it means that this must be the case. If their clothes were in the creek it's likely that the phone was in a pocket (in order for it to have recorded 'the stuff of nightmares') and was probably removed along with clothing. So it probably went into the creek as well. Being submerged usually destroys a phone, so I'm guess that IF is is the case, the video was recovered from the cloud it was synced with another device.

IMO.

You're assuming that both girls clothes were in the creek or that Libby's were. He said he saw girls clothing. That doesn't mean both girls or all their clothing. We can't assume that Libby's phone was wet.