IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #31

[Lauranyc83]

Is this a typo? I am confused.

He means that there are too many things that align for him willing (meaning that he won't say) to say it's not the same person.

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[Facinatingtimes]

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

View attachment 113049

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

I appreciate the detail of the measurements of arms, knees, etc, but RL looks broader in the shoulders and bigger in the torso than BG to me. And it looks to me that BG is actually thinner than appearance in the photo since his jacket is stuffed with something(s). We've seen RL without a jacket (red shirt interview) and he appears to have a belly/thickness.


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[GGE]

Is this a typo? I am confused.

No. I told my friend that I don't think it's the same person and he told me he thinks I'm wrong. He says too many things align for him to be willing to say it's not the same person. He feels that in his professional yet non-LE opinion that it IS the same person he's seeing in both images.

 

[AFTM]

Sorry


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[EllieS]

I can't really tell much for sure about BG's belly and I don't believe he's wearing a hat.

JMO

I agree. The hat BG is wearing, IMO, is a baseball style cap that is well worn, with the bill bent in the middle. I feel like the button on the top of BG's cap is sunken in from wear. It resembles RL's hat, but also a good number of other men's hats in the area. I'm 3 hours south of Delphi in a larger, metropolitan area, and tons of men have camo ball caps. I also feel like RL's belly is too rounded, while BG's belly seems to protrude lower in the jacket. Maybe I'm wrong. At this point, IDK anything anymore. MOO.

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[FreeRoad]

Ya'll I don't like to talk about stuff especially things disturbing to me personally. But if my experience saves 1 person or catches a guilt person then it is worth sharing. If anything it can help family's avoid pitfalls. Forgive me and give me a chance to explain how easy it is for kids to fall prey.... During my childhood camping was family thing. We all went and explored our different ways. As a horse lover I stuck to the campground barns and befriended a hard of hearing old man/caretaker of the horses. He promised me a sit on the horse if i sat on his lap. He seemed like a lonely harmless grandpa, and my love of hoses overwhelmed me. Reluctantly I agreed. My promise and a hayloft later his hand went exploring in places that even to a child is a no no and trying to talk my into the woods too see other animals.l Thank god my instinct kicked in and said"oh mom i calling me" - "Do you hear her" knowing he is hard of hearing. He quickly let me go.

I edit to add ...do not criticize my parents. They were at the campsite, back in those days kids ran around the campground, It was normal for those times.

And still is in some places. Not that we all shouldn't be wise and aware about StrangerDanger, but some of us choose to live in rural/wilderness areas because the access to nature is so important to us. That is exactly what has brought me to following this case~ I have always, and still do (in my sixth decade) value the freedom to find peace in nature. I live in a place where children still ride their bikes off to go fishing for the whole day, where one can lay down in an empty sunny meadow and actually doze off. Aside from the vast personal tragedy that these families and this community is experiencing, I grieve for our whole society, that we live in fear of nature, and fear of being alone in our environent (whether rural or urban.)

These two beautiful spirits were doing what they had a right to do, and were admiral examples of spirited, independent girls. I cannot find words to describe how unjust this is.

jmo

 

[Penny4them]

I think I know the house you are talking about. I posted a link to it several weeks back. I believe it is vacant. There are some pictures with furniture but it looks staged, other pictures show empty rooms. The link below also shows exact location on a map.

https://www.trulia.com/property/3174172641-5422-W-300-N-Delphi-IN-46923

That's the impression I got too, I just expected at some point we would have heard that the property had been searched for a number of reasons but proximity to crime scene & the possibility it is not lived in at present seem logical ones, odd!

 

[GGE]

I appreciate the detail of the measurements of arms, knees, etc, but RL looks broader in the shoulders and bigger in the torso than BG to me. And it looks to me that BG is actually thinner than appearance in the photo since his jacket is stuffed with something(s). We've seen RL without a jacket (red shirt interview) and he appears to have a belly/thickness.


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I know, right?? It's so weird for me because I sent him the images thinking he would agree with me that they're not the same and he came back at me saying "I"m sorry but this time I believe you're wrong, here's why" which is part of why I value our relationship. I'm willing to share his findings even if I have a hard time reconciling it all with my own previous thoughts becasue ultimately this is just about the girls. And I know we all agree on that.

 

[teeandcee]

If it's true RL had an employment history at IPC (the meat packing plant) that opens up a big can of worms regarding him knowing a registered sex offender. I find that tidbit of information very intriguing. He could be friends with one or hired one.

 

[Spellbound]

If I could just interject something here? None of the other LE vehicles are actually parked on the property but on the street. I just think that they would not be parking LE vehicles on the property they are trying to search.

This one is well on the property with no markings so I would lean towards thinking the truck belongs to RL.

I could absolutely be wrong but that is my thinking.

WebSight, I believe that same utility type truck has been in different areas of the property. A google search found a couple pics where I can see it:

In this first pic that truck is near the grain bin across the road. http://www.wlky.com/article/delphi-...earch-warrant-at-property-owners-home/9147011

Second pic: Look at the area where we see the truck now --- it is not there behind the reporter when the video was done. It had to be moved there for a reason, though I don't know what that would be. Full video is at http://fox59.com/2017/03/17/authorities-serve-search-warrant-in-connection-with-delphi-murder-case/

 

[bodester413]

It really does match up more than you think it would. A few days back I opened both photos in Photoshop even though to me they looked like different sized guys. I thought ok this will probably end up being a waste of time trying to resize them and match them up. I was surprised. I think BG wearing clothing that wasn't tight is what originally made it difficult for me to see the similarity. Hard to see how heavy BG is etc.

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

 

[EllieS]

I agree. The hat BG is wearing, IMO, is a baseball style cap that is well worn, with the bill bent in the middle. I feel like the button on the top of BG's cap is sunken in from wear. It resembles RL's hat, but also a good number of other men's hats in the area. I'm 3 hours south of Delphi in a larger, metropolitan area, and tons of men have camo ball caps. I also feel like RL's belly is too rounded, while BG's belly seems to protrude lower in the jacket. Maybe I'm wrong. At this point, IDK anything anymore. MOO.

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Replying to myself because I read the original comment wrong. I think BG is wearing a hat. My apologies.

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[WebSight]

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

Please bear with me here? I do see the point about the arms and I could see how if RL has a tendancy to walk a certain way with his arms in a particular position (left one straighter, right one more bent at the elbow) then how does flipping the other picture help? It means on BG the configuration is on the other side. How is that a match? I see it and don't see it at the same time.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I appreciate the detail of the measurements of arms, knees, etc, but RL looks broader in the shoulders and bigger in the torso than BG to me. And it looks to me that BG is actually thinner than appearance in the photo since his jacket is stuffed with something(s). We've seen RL without a jacket (red shirt interview) and he appears to have a belly/thickness.


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.
I Agree. Adding to that, would't LE give a defense attorney the ability to cast doubt that there was another perp? Essentially that is what they have done with all of their comments regarding RL.

They moved RL for HIS safety. I think he knows who did it and he is keeping silent. So who is RL protecting? Family member, friend? What does BG have over RL to keep him quiet? Did he participate?

I maybe proved wrong, but IMHO I don't believe it is him.

 

[FreeRoad]

(O/T, I've been thinking about this a lot lately and it's really depressing. I thought about going to buy a positive book on getting old.)

Q/T Even given all of the above in my own life, I'm really enjoying getting older. just sayin'...:cheerful:

 

[Marah]

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

View attachment 113049

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

It isn't a match to me. RL is taller and broader than BG.

 

[Lamima]

No. I told my friend that I don't think it's the same person and he told me he thinks I'm wrong. He says too many things align for him to be willing to say it's not the same person. He feels that in his professional yet non-LE opinion that it IS the same person he's seeing in both images.

Ah... got it. I don't know why I was reading that differently. Brain not working today.

 

[teeandcee]

I know, right?? It's so weird for me because I sent him the images thinking he would agree with me that they're not the same and he came back at me saying "I"m sorry but this time I believe you're wrong, here's why" which is part of why I value our relationship. I'm willing to share his findings even if I have a hard time reconciling it all with my own previous thoughts becasue ultimately this is just about the girls. And I know we all agree on that.

Please tell your friend thank you. I was trying to do this, but using my fingers held up to the computer screen wasn't working well.

 

[Spellbound]

(edit - this is long, please bear with me and have an open mind) -

alright well i finished catching up and for sure nobody has posted what I find so compelling about the images of BG and RL.

I have told myself all along that I don't think they're the same person. I think RL looks fatter/stockier up in his upper rib cage.

But here's the thing... is anyone here familiar with moderator Carl's work in the UID (unidentified) forum? The way he overlays faces and finds points that line up and match, and subsequently has come up with actual matches based on images that some people might not necessarily think are the same person?

See, that's what happened here for me. I sent the pics of BG and RL to a friend of mine who is a professional 3D videographer and photoshop expert, and all around perfectionist. He knows nothing about the case and has no preconceived notions, nor did he know or care who the people were. He just knew I wondered whether he felt it was possible they were the same person (because I was sure they were NOT).

His conclusions shocked me. All he had to do was flip BG's photos, put them side by side scaled the same, and then he explained to me that too many points align for him to be willing to say it's NOT the same person, and in fact the arms. THE ARMS.

look at the arms.

That is an unusual and unique feature of his overall gait, the way he holds his arms and his elbows. One is always up higher than the other, one side pointed out at an angle and the other lower and more curved.

The waist falls at the same place. the knees are located the same distance from feet and waist. There's even the same shadow/hanging thing (pocket, fanny pack, whatever) appearing there. He asserts that to him the face matches. He said to me "its' even the same camoflauge hat" to which I replied "FOR THE LOVE OF G-d, ITS A HOODIE" and he said "are you sure?" and I said "well, no" and he said "look again".

This is his set of images he sent back to me. I asked him to watermark them, to make an account here, to post them himself, and he gave me full permission to take ownership of his photo manipulation and submit it as my own, and transferred copyright of his intellectual work as such to me.

So here's our/my photo. See what you all think. Keep in mind that I went into this convinced it wasn't RL. Now I can't unsee the matching stuff, in particular those arms/elbows. (and as an aside, check out Carl's great work in the UID forum sometime if you haven't yet!)

[photo manipulation is -based on- the side by side comparison posted earlier in this thread, and I will edit in the original poster's name as soon as I find it, unless someone recalls who it was offhand, thanks!]

Thank you! Not that I know anything definitively, but I so agree with his assessment of similarities in body and movements. I still cannot figure out the head (hat or no hat, brown hair or a covering) but that is the only thing that does not line up for me.

 

[Jax49]

I appreciate all the work done to compare the pics but I still do not believe RL is bridge guy. I just don't see it...in the pics of BG I see a man much younger than RL. By 15-20 years or more. Just my opinion, of course.