IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #31

[Criminal Justice mom]

Just in regard to people stating that a 77 year old man who may have health issues would not be a sexual offender, I strongly disagree.

Alot of my work has been with child victims of sexual abuse and the perpetrators have often been their grandfathers....men in their 70's and sometimes 80's.

Erectile dysfunction means nothing....sex offenders can receive sexual gratification in a variety of ways. They don't necessarily need to be able to 'perform' in a conventional way. The buzz is primarily psychological.

And now there is always Viagra.....

I'm not saying he did it, I'm just saying you can't rule him out because of his age. jmo

Very true! As a nurse at the state men's prison I can say for sure, beyond a doubt being in his 70s doesn't rule him out!

 

[mrsu]

I'm seeing several comments (on news articles) referring to RL stating he had surgery on the 13th at the very beginning and is now saying he was buying fish??? Has this been covered? I don't remember anything about surgery??!!

 

[TeaTime]

I hope I am not interrupting the flow of the thread but just wanted to comment.

Protective custody was my first thought last week when LE arrested Logan. Now I don't think so.

The FBI has access to sophisticated voice recognition software. I have to
wonder if Logan's voice is thought to be the one on the recording. It sounds to me as if it is. I've been here since day one and only posted twice, but one of the posts was that I thought the voice was one of an older man.

Some say that a man of Logan's age would not be able to accomplish the murder of two healthy young girls. I disagree. My grandfather was a builder and worked past the age of 70 because he wanted to (he owned the company). He could still climb a ladder and inspect a roof his workers had put on a new build.

We all know adrenaline can give you energy to do things you wouldn't normally be able to do. I think a 70 year old in reasonably good health could do whatever he needed to do. Just IMO.

I hope it was not RL, but he does appear to be in reasonably good health for an habitual drinker.

I have to admit I have not felt sympathetic towards RL for all of the DUI's he has had. Please no one offer sympathy to me but my only son was killed on Thanksgiving day by a drunk driver who was drunk by noon and had a couple of DUI's in his past. My son was a junior in college and we were waiting Thanksgiving dinner on him. That was in 1999. How much anyone drinks in the privacy of their own home is none of my business but when it kills your only son, it becomes your business when they are on our streets and highways.

Sorry for the long post. I just finally had to post. I normally lurk because someone has inevitably said exactly what I would have said by the time I finally catch up.

Thanks, and please no condolences on the loss of my son because that is not why I posted it.

MOO

RL is 77-78 years old now. HUGE difference.

 

[stuart m]

i think l.e. knows his release date is coming up and they want to either elimanete him or charge him. i believe the search warrent was for boot's ( to see if they could match the print's at the crime scene along the bank's ) and clothing to see if any fiber's matched up. and his truck to look for print's or trace evidence. and especially the belt bag.

 

[mpnola]

Thanks. I wish they would confirm this in a press conference or through other sources. In the original statement, the officers very deliberately avoided confirming the two were the same.

I also posted a link (in the media thread) to an interview on youtube where law enforcement says (himself, not quoted) that they believe the voice and the person are the same, although they are still exploring everything. It sounds like they are now willing to share that they are pretty sure it is one person. They never say "definitely". So, its as close to a definite than you will ever get. In my opinion

 

[Elle*Bee]

Just in regard to people stating that a 77 year old man who may have health issues would not be a sexual offender, I strongly disagree.

Alot of my work has been with child victims of sexual abuse and the perpetrators have often been their grandfathers....men in their 70's and sometimes 80's.

Erectile dysfunction means nothing....sex offenders can receive sexual gratification in a variety of ways. They don't necessarily need to be able to 'perform' in a conventional way. The buzz is primarily psychological.

And now there is always Viagra.....

I'm not saying he did it, I'm just saying you can't rule him out because of his age. jmo

Thanks. That's the point I was trying to make a page or two ago, but I like the way you explained it.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

BG is throaty.

IMO He sounds like a smoker.

 

[iten]

Maybe the crime has separate elements, abduction culminating in murder.

And possibly more than one [separate] crime scene.


My current working theory is that LE might be missing a crime scene. (That this crime has more than one location.)



I’ve always assumed that the girls came off the end of bridge and were then forced to wade across the creek to the area where their bodies were found.


However, I’m beginning to wonder whether, on reaching the end of the bridge, the girls went or were taken somewhere else. And were then later returned to the general area of the abduction (although this time to the north side of the creek where the bodies were found).


Am also wondering whether this might be the ‘twist’ that the Sheriff mentioned.


MOO: it would be very unusual for a killer to abduct victim/s from Location A, take them to Location B, and then return them (dead or alive) to the general area (Location A) of the abduction. The only reason to do this would be smoke screen / diversion.


I’m beginning to entertain the idea that this crime is very local and perhaps even personal.

 

[MsAnais]

Thanks. That's the point I was trying to make a page or two ago, but I like the way you explained it.

Sorry - I missed your post!! Trying to catch up is tricky!!

I'll go back and read yours:seeya:

 

[CoreyRocks]

I just relistened to some interviews with RL walking on his property. It sounds to me like he speaks with a noticeable lisp. I do not here that in the three words.

Moo.

 

[Peace777]

I can see my husbands where abouts with the family tracker app. It may be to much info, but at one point, he was in another persons car and it would show them moving, and it even gives me a reciept of where the phone is. You can also do this with gmail, if you log into your own account you can find thr location of your phone with greater accuracy. Ive had to use this on multiple occasions to find my husband who seems to think its amusing to get lost with his friends, as well as my teenage sister ::rolls eyes::

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Maybe this would be a good thing to do in the aftermath of these horrific crimes of Libby and Abby and other murdered children. Too many are vulnerable to crazies! . But is it an invasion of privacy? 5 apps to track your children's phones (article calls it spying) FWIW>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ure-on-their-tail_us_55afaff1e4b07af29d56f544

 

[itsallaboutthequeen]

What's up? Any word about what they found on the farm/property? Hoping for some justice here! :tantrum:

 

[Eclipse]

I know I wouldn't enjoy being thrust into the middle of such a horrific situation, would hate having TV cameras in my face, and would really, really hate the fact that two murdered young girls had been found on my property. I'm thinking that as the introvert that I am if put in that situation, I may not come across all that well. :/

Well, he didn't have to talk with any of them. I'd read that he didn't talk to any reporters after the voice recording and picture came out, but then saw the Inside Edition clip on here that shows otherwise. He even said "down the hill" for the reporter and really didn't seem apprehensive about doing it., imo.

 

[whiskers]

Since it was a 5 or 4? day weekend... does anyone know if Abby slept over with Libby the night before they went to take pictures and hiking/walking. It seems Libby's family or friends dropped and picked up.

 

[jillycat]

I can see my husbands where abouts with the family tracker app. It may be to much info, but at one point, he was in another persons car and it would show them moving, and it even gives me a reciept of where the phone is. You can also do this with gmail, if you log into your own account you can find thr location of your phone with greater accuracy. Ive had to use this on multiple occasions to find my husband who seems to think its amusing to get lost with his friends, as well as my teenage sister ::rolls eyes::

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I think the phone story will be interesting when it's told. Because it couldn't be both left at the scene on her body, as has been stated, and traveling around with the perp, yet found by LE.

I asked about warrants because another case was mired down in debates over pinging vs other location data. The father had reviewed the victim's activity online, and the police, after obtaining a warrant had obtained ping data. At trial, an expert hired by police to further track the victim's movements, showed the entire journey that the victim's phone took to not only the restaurant she drove to, and not only the parking lot she was in, but the space by the dumpster where she parked, the direction she turned in to leave the parking lot, etc., all the way back to her condo parking space, distinguishing that from her, or at least her phone, going inside the condo. Families can't get that kind of info from an app or provider feature, so I really wonder where that phone was when the grandfather tracked it, and at what point on the timeline relative to the murder. Not because I don't believe the family, but because we seem to have a phone with the victim and at another location.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

This is the first thing that stuck out to me. What days were the other warrants served on? It almost seems as if LE might opt to do that on purpose so it puts the pressure on RL, knowing rumors and speculation will fly all weekend, maybe encourage him to talk about what he knows (if he knows anything), or maybe it's just coincidental. I wonder if he's done talking because his attorney told him not to, or if he's a bit perturbed that he's sitting in the pokey for a while?



I'd love to know if he went fish shopping with someone else who might need an alibi. Or maybe he fibbed about fish shopping with a friend when said friend wasn't actually there. I'm not really buying the fishing story, but maybe he has young children in the family that like them.



I can pick out regions with confidence, but I don't think I could pinpoint a state with the same confidence. It would certainly take more than 3 words to even hazard a guess though. I do think BG is from the Midwest, because he says words the same as I do. Does anyone else think RL sounds a bit nasally?




I think that's the Indiana accent. I think I say it the same way, or at least it doesn't strike me as different than anyone locally would say it.



Yet only 3 (right?) have made it to the media. Would they include searches of Libby and Abby's homes and/or relative's homes in that figure?



The suspect still being free is my #1 irk of this case. Them not being found that night is #2. I don't think anyone could convince me they searched for hours and never made it 1/2 mile from their last confirmed location down a creek. It just seems like such an easy landmark to follow. Everything around the bridge is pretty much private property and they had permission to search RL's property at 6:30 which to me implies they planned on looking there that night. So were the girls overlooked, did they not end up searching, or were they not there at the time they were searching?



I don't know if anyone has answered this (and I don't think it breaks any rules), but there was a divorce somewhere between 2009 and 2012 and some financial problems around the same time. It seems the divorce filing occurred in 2009, but the disposition wasn't until 2012. All of his drinking charges that I can find were after the filing.

Off topic a bit, but can anyone tell me what this might pertain to? Briggs in the attorney in said divorce. I'm curious about the photographic evidence mentioned and if that would be considered normal. My mind took it to a dark place and I'm hoping I'm wrong. From Doxpop-

Caroline B. Briggs files Motion for Release of Exhibits. Court enters Order releasing photographic exhibits to Caroline Briggs for use in a trial in Tippecanoe Superior Court 1, per form. KATHY R. SMITH, JUDGE PRO TEMPORE Filed By: Briggs, Caroline File Stamp: 09/24/2012

I don't know if it is his or not. I thought maybe some of his court stuff might mention it, like if it was impounded, but I couldn't find a mention of any vehicle. It's a 1997-2003 4x4 extended Cab Ford F250 or F350.

Regarding the court order releasing photographic evidence for use in another court case. If RL had domestic and financial issues, could the photos be of property that would be a) under dispute in a divorce and b)required by a court for a bankruptcy or civil matter? One of the parties may not be able to access the property to take more photos or the property may have changed and the photos are required to document the change.

Totally spitballing. I don't think RL is BG. I do think RL is shaking in his boots because he knows BG.

 

[Imvp2]

If LE had permission at 6:30pm, from RL to search his property on February 13, and the reporter claims on the 14th when they are found, that clothes are in the water, would that be something visible with a flashlight on the evening of February 13?

 

[observation]

I really do not know what to make of the recent news footage involving the PO. National billboards went up and it would be incredibly ironic if this crime was literally committed by someone in their own backyard. Not saying that is in fact what occurred in this case but it's rather suspicious all around. That's my take for the moment.


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[FIgnacio]

I read something about backyard, what happen? please.

 

[Spiritecho]

Do we know if LE has completed their search for the night? Do we know if they will go back out there tomorrow? Guess zero word on any type of press conference or other release from LE?