IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[DeDee]

Yes, it has been debunked. You may zoom in as close as you like and see vehicles and people. That’s your prerogative. But the fact is, it is not physically possible for vehicles to be there given the scale. That is, it is not physically possible given the height of the bridge and the distance to those trees from where Liberty took the picture. Never mind the fact that the road you speak of is BEHIND her as she took the photo.

DeDee, you have to ask yourself this: how far away are those trees? How tall is the bridge? Therefore, how large or how small would a vehicle have to be for you to see it at your zoom-level?

Several people, myself included, have patiently and respectfully tried to explain this. Here are two examples:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-8&p=13171858#post13171858

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-35&p=13247250#post13247250

This is not your opinion vs. my opinion. This is basic math. And the math doesn’t allow for there to be vehicles there.

It’s fine for us to bandy about here on WS talking about this. But there is a danger to it if someone calls the tipline and reports there are vehicles under the bridge in the photo. That wastes LE’s time.

Your kindness is appreciated. I also posted an example of what the cell phone camera lens sees.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-35&p=13246968#post13246968

Was the photo posted of cars in NYC taken with a cellphone? I would not call in a tip on a supposition about vehicles since LEO have the original image. That is not what the tip line is established to do. I shall not belabor the point. I could be so wrong. You could be so right. Or vice versa.

I am much more concerned about where BG is currently located and what his next move will be. :jail:

 

[ladymoffat]

Perhaps the problem with RL's alibi is that he has one. This is someone who has no drivers license and is in his 70's. He does not work, if he is gone from home its most likely the occasional trip to the market or into town, something that wouldn't take more than a few hours. Remember this was a Monday afternoon so family members would most likely be working, again leading to the idea that he should be home. So now here we are on Monday February 13th and RL risks going to jail to drive out of town for fish at just the same time that two girls are killed on his property. I bet RL has a receipt, theres probably some street cam that has him driving, is alibi is air tight. Perhaps thats the problem LE is having with him. They want to know WHO told him to not be home that day. JMHO

So many good points here!

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[gitana1]

I understand that we want the brightest and the smartest serving in LE, FBI, ICE, HS; however, those occupations are not always the first on a college student's list of preferred professions due to the dangerous nature of the job, the salary and benefits. Personally, I support college ed requirement for all LE employees.**

Whoa. The best and the brightest are definitely in the FBI. And the salaries plus benefits for all LE are incredible. I know lots of cops. The pensions are unheard of. Hey can easily make be $120,000 or more annually out here and some retire on full pensions and then go work in another city.

The competition is fierce. Most people accepted these days to LE positions have college. Almost all FBI do and have. They recruit at colleges.

I think so too. Pointed a gun at them, probably tied them up with zip ties or rope and told them to go down the hill. Might have even forced them to walk across the creek.

You know young girls like this are not likely to run when threatened. I'm not surprised a tiny bit that they would take photos instead of run if they saw a creepy guy stalking them and felt scared. Girls are trained to be compliant and polite and to respect men/adults. It's very easy for a man to grab girls and even boys this age by giving orders. Kids are used to being taught that they have to do what they're told and girls are taught not to make a scene or use their voices. That's the reality.

I have zero doubt that a creepy man could stalk them and get control quickly without much problems. By the time they knew it was bad enough that they had the courage to run, threatening them with a weapon would be enough.

Frankly, all a guy like this would have to do is say, "Hey. Get over here! You two are trespassing on my property!" "We didn't know!" "Too bad. You come with me. I'm calling the cops. Get going. Down that hill to my house. Down the hill! I'm going to have you arrested!" And many kids that age would be terrified and totally compliant. Especially girls.

 

[Bently]

Something I'm currently hung up on: I rewatched the WLFI news clip from the night of 2/13 when Libby's grandpa said her phone was pinging all over town. That quote has been discussed much, as have the fact that he (and Abby's mom) seem relatively calm. After watching the clip with fresh eyes, I think they did think the girls had just probably run off somewhere (though there is a hint of nervousness that it's something else), and I think it was the "pinging" cell phone that gave them that false assurance. Many (myself included) have speculated that it was those pings that led them to execute a SW at the Bicycle Bridge Road location within the week.

But here's thing thing: If it was those pings that led them to BBR, and when LE seemed to think there was no immediate danger that first evening, why were the searching around the trail and in the woods, and not around town where the phone was pinging? This tells me that either they weren't using an app like Find My iPhone or Find My Friends that first day; and if they did use cell phone tower data, it took a few days to narrow it down to a general area (they had to get a warrant to compel the phone company to release the data, do the triangulation, etc., and then ended up in BBR vicinity as a result)...but then what did he mean that the cell phone was pinging all over town, and why was the search so focused on the trail instead of parts of town?

All of this leads me to think that in the first hours, there was (understandably) a lot of confusion, and I'm not sure that the grandpa understood what he was saying (probably something LE mentioned that he latched on to for hope?). I'm now taking a more skeptical view of that comment as possible proof that there were removed from the location and brought back (which has never been compelling to me anyway), and to the extent I think it helps clarify anything at all it only makes it slightly more likely that BG took the phone with him (but again, if they thought her phone was elsewhere in town, why was the search focused around the trail). In other words, I think the "cell phone pinging all over town" is IMO a bit of a red herring (unless someone has a better theory here that makes more sense).

I haven't said anything before because I searched for over 3 hours last week,and I could not find a link I was wanting to show with a screen cap of part of the MSM report.

At one time there was a mainstream media Report with a video inside, I think it was at the fire station.

The video shoot was behind the table hit folks for giving maps to volunteers and it showed a close up of the map they were giving to each of the volunteers for searching.

That map had about six yellow highlighted areas.

A couple of weeks later somebody put up a link to a map of the trails and Delhi - and it was the same map they were giving out to the volunteers.

My point is that they were searching many areas, in my opinion, seeing those yellow highlights on that map.

Perhaps somebody knows the video that I'm talking about and can bring it up, but I searched for three hours to get the video and therefore the screen capture.. and I could not find it again.

 

[whiskers]

Anyone have a list? I want to check something.

I don't. Sorry. But maybe someone else does.

 

[Spiritecho]

MOO

I have not researched this. Who was arrested and held in Carroll County on Friday the ?17th and then released yesterday? I think I have the date correct, I may not..

My thought is...did someone came into the jail and LE felt he was going to be an 'issue' to RL so they moved RL...now that person has been released.

Did that make any sense?

 

[haystack]

So much YES in this post. Thank you for pointing this out. IMO, I do not think RL is BG, but he either knows who is or who told him to vacate his property...not one but two days.

I find it interesting that RL's interview he says "when I left for (Lafayette) they hadn't been found yet" I wish I had the link, but even though he was thinking back, after he knew the girls were murdered, wouldn't he have said something more along the lines of "when I left for Lafayette, nothing was out of the ordinary" MOO

 

[Mcumings]

Maybe.... there are similarities with Mr L and the suspect but as the image is blurry it really does not look entirely like him. So we shall see see. Time shall see hopefully.

I think there are definitely similarities between them and thats why they are getting confused with one another. I think that early on RL knew nothing but has seen the pic of BG and knows who he is and is now trying to cover/protect him.

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[Eileen730]

Banfield made an error by stating RL had discrepancies in where he was on one of the days, the 13th I believe. This is based on Banfield misstating what RL actually said on camera interviews so it seems like the attorney would've wanted to jump on that rather than leave it, giving the impression to the viewers that RL lied on camera and was caught.

Ahhhh
OK. Thanks.
Now. Think the. Fish story was a fish story
And. Think he went to a watering hole instead.

 

[Angelcat13]

BREAKING NEWS!!! Current Scanner Alerts #7

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...m/forums/showthread.php?t=224501&share_type=t

Hope that works!


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Any update on this Breaking News? I didn't see any more on the Scanner.

 

[Bemused]

I find it interesting that RL's interview he says "when I left for (Lafayette) they hadn't been found yet" I wish I had the link, but even though he was thinking back, after he knew the girls were murdered, wouldn't he have said something more along the lines of "when I left for Lafayette, nothing was out of the ordinary" MOO

I believe Fox59 has interviews with RL on their site & maybe you can find them in the media thread here.

 

[jenthern]

FWIW..I've known people who've been arrested for things involving alcohol and/or drugs (weed in their cases). None of them, imo, are what I would refer to as alcoholics or addicts, but they still wound up having to go to alcohol & drug classes.


jmo

This is the last time I'm going to talk about RL and his (alleged by me and many others) alcoholism. I have grown up with a family of several functioning alcoholics. You'll never see them stumbling down the road with a brown bag in their hands, they run successful businesses, have long lasting marriages and have sent their children to college. They've never beaten or murdered anyone or been arrested for any violent crimes. But they have driven drunk. MANY times. I am not, nor have I ever been, okay with that. These are people I love dearly. One of them is my 73 year old uncle. I can promise you he drives intoxicated at least 3 times a week. The other is his 58 year old brother. The 58 year old is the same. They own a business together and finish each day at the "north office" aka the bar down the street from their shop. Sometimes "meetings" in the north office can last hours, yet they drive. (And that's a whole other discussion, but for clarification no one condones this.) Of the two of them, only one has ever gotten a DUI one time. He still drives. This is years of them drinking and driving and not getting caught. My point here is that RL probably didn't get his three DUIs the only three times he drove drunk. He probably drives drunk A LOT and those were three times he got nabbed. My uncles are pillars of the community, well liked and respected and actually two of the biggest hearted men I know. They would literally give the shirt off their backs. Alcoholism transcends race, sex, religion, background, education, and just about every other category. I am of the opinion the RL had absolutely nothing to do with this case other than the bodies being found on his property. But I 100% believe he is an alcoholic. I don't think that makes him a terrible person. I think it makes him a sick person. Alcoholism is an illness. That's all. It's ok that we don't all agree.

 

[FreeRoad]

Software Engineer for Google Average Salary $81,184 - $172,061
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...tware-Engineer
Police Officer positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $49,297
Delphi, IN Police Officer salary $53,000
Detroit, MI median salary is $53,225
Rookie New York Cop salary is $41,975

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...Officer/Salary
https://www.glassdoor.com/Jobs/Delph...bs-E205950.htm
http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html
http://www1.salary.com/MI/Detroit/po...er-salary.html

Some FBI positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $43,000
http://www.criminaljusticeschoolinfo...nt-salary.html

Homeland Security requires a Bachelor's Degree. Median Salary (2015) $58,320
http://study.com/articles/Become_a_H...eer_Guide.html

^this is all copied from the post that DeDee was replying to, but I couldn't figure out how to quote it here other than "copy & paste." Sorry.

I understand that we want the brightest and the smartest serving in LE, FBI, ICE, HS; however, those occupations are not always the first on a college student's list of preferred professions due to the dangerous nature of the job, the salary and benefits. Personally, I support college ed requirement for all LE employees.**

O/T but why aren't we willing to pay them more? We could add to the comparison the salaries of CEOs, human resource directors, designers, sales managers, marketers, electrical engineers, investment bankers, I don't know, any number of professions that don't even have human lives directly depending on them. (I'm not meaning to point a finger at any one profession in criticism.) Put another way, we want the highest possible salaries for ourselves but we aren't willing to hope for/do that for others. (And most of us don't have publicly scrutiny of our job performance, or even more, literally risk our lives every day when we "punch in.")

Yes, Off Topic, but I wanted to inject this because we do discuss the job performance of LE and other Public Servants here, and imo the above is important to consider.

MOO

 

[Burnt Toast]

BREAKING NEWS!!! Current Scanner Alerts #7

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...m/forums/showthread.php?t=224501&share_type=t

Hope that works!


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is it the carroll county ems and fire?

 

[Nightwatch2020]

There seems to be a lot of speculation of whether or not the girls were killed where their bodies were found or if they were taken to a 2nd location and their bodies returned to the area and I have a theory on this.

IMO - I believe that it's possible that Liberty was killed almost immediately after they were taken. She may not have been the killers "mark" and from what I've gathered about her - I imagine she put up a fight. Verbally and physically. She had the foresight to record and document suspicious behavior and most likely her killer.

In the twisted mind of a child murderer, she was going to be a problem from the start and he needed to get rid of her so he could focus on Abby.

So I think BG killed Libby by the creek as soon as he had the opportunity and left her body there while he took Abby somewhere on RL's property to do whatever sick and twisted things he had in mind. Afterwards, he took Abby back to Liberty's body by the creek and then killed her.

Of course this is all MOO

 

[Scarlett12]

So here's my theory on RL. I believe in that first interview it was clear he had a green strap under his jacket. It was theorized here that it was a gun holster.

I believe that is what it was. As a convicted felon he was not allowed to own or carry a firearm.

I think he went to his attorney to try and have his prior convictions (alternate treatment) reduced to misdemeanors in order to carry a gun. Too little too late.

I believe LE asked him about a gun and he denied having one. Perhaps tips, the photo, and his lawyers motion got LE convinced he lied and they wondered what else he lied about.

I believe he knew he was going to be arrested, which is why the motion by his attorney was dropped. I think they were searching for a gun and probably found it.

I think this guy made some really bad life choices. I do not think he had anything to do with killing the girls.

I hope he didn't, as someone suggested yesterday, unwittingly give BG a ride.

JMO

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Yes, it looked like this strap

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[gitana1]

MOO

I have not researched this. Who was arrested and held in Carroll County on Friday the ?17th and then released yesterday? I think I have the date correct, I may not..

My thought is...did someone came into the jail and LE felt he was going to be an 'issue' to RL so they moved RL...now that person has been released.

Did that make any sense?

Seems like it would be very easy to keep prisoners separate within the same jail though.

 

[Mcumings]

Software Engineer for Google Average Salary $81,184 - $172,061
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...tware-Engineer
Police Officer positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $49,297
Delphi, IN Police Officer salary $53,000
Detroit, MI median salary is $53,225
Rookie New York Cop salary is $41,975

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...Officer/Salary
https://www.glassdoor.com/Jobs/Delph...bs-E205950.htm
http://work.chron.com/salary-rookie-cop-nypd-2215.html
http://www1.salary.com/MI/Detroit/po...er-salary.html

Some FBI positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $43,000
http://www.criminaljusticeschoolinfo...nt-salary.html

Homeland Security requires a Bachelor's Degree. Median Salary (2015) $58,320
http://study.com/articles/Become_a_H...eer_Guide.html

^this is all copied from the post that DeDee was replying to, but I couldn't figure out how to quote it here other than "copy & paste." Sorry.


O/T but why aren't we willing to pay them more? We could add to the comparison the salaries of CEOs, human resource directors, designers, sales managers, marketers, electrical engineers, investment bankers, I don't know, any number of professions that don't even have human lives directly depending on them. (I'm not meaning to point a finger at any one profession in criticism.) Put another way, we want the highest possible salaries for ourselves but we aren't willing to hope for/do that for others. (And most of us don't have publicly scrutiny of our job performance, or even more, literally risk our lives every day when we "punch in.")

Yes, Off Topic, but I wanted to inject this because we do discuss the job performance of LE and other Public Servants here, and imo the above is important to consider.

MOO

Army E5 with 8 years active duty = $33,000. Not complaining i signed up to do this. Just another point of reference.

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[Bemused]

Ahhhh
OK. Thanks.
Now. Think the. Fish story was a fish story
And. Think he went to a watering hole instead.

Banfield seemed to merge two interviews with RL about separate days, 13th & 14th, into the 13th & mistakenly thinks RL lied about the 13th due to saying where he was on the 13th. That's not what he said--he was talking about two different days so he didn't say what she thought.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Scarlett12]

Interesting to me that the attorney seemed taken aback by Banfield's question regarding the alibi discrepancy. I'd think he'd be armed with notes and familiar with basic facts by now. Seemed odd to me. I watched so I heard the inflection in his voice when he replied.

I don't think that RL thinks he will be charged with murder...or he is hopeful.

He hasn't hired one of the big guns in Indianapolis to represent him. We have some world class attorneys here.

I'm not knocking his attorney, I am sure he is extremely talented and knowledgeable (I don't need a lawsuit lol) but I would be putting together a dream team .


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