IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[Evania]

Exactly.... there was IMHO a "meet up" at that bridge at that time. With who is the million dollar question...

I agree to an extent.

If you mean a meet up with what they thought was a boy their age, I tend to disagree because I think they would have been able to find the BG through some sort of an electronic trail by now. IMO
Also, they weren't dressed up as one might think they might be if they were planning to meet a boy. They were dressed as friends who decided to get together and go for a walk. I think it was said that Libby was wearing sweats and a tie dyed shirt. I could be wrong, but my hunch is that this wasn't anything like that. All this is JMO!

On the other hand, I agree that it was a planned meet up on behalf of the suspect. I believe he had a grocery bag under his jacket and came armed with a plan. The question I have is: Was he just hoping to attack just anyone who looked vulnerable or did he specifically stalk and target them? If the answer to the second question is yes...Then my question becomes: How did he know about their plans? Did they go anywhere with their ride before arriving at the park? A gas station? Fast food restaurant? What did they do before the park? They were together during the previous day...Did they make plans to go hiking and someone overheard at that time? It could be something as simple as their ride (who is no way at fault) saying in passing, "I can't do something at that time. I promised Libby and Abby that I would take them to the park."

Social media: Like I said, I'm not getting the sense that they were planning on meeting a boy. However, it's so easy to stalk someone via Facebook. This could simply be some friend of a friend that gets status updates from one of the girl's family members and developed a fixation and found out their plans. I don't believe that the girl's knew their killer. I think that he "knew" them. So I believe that this was a planned meet up in that sense. JMO!

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[kellala]

I use Firefox with an extension (the one I use is called uBlock Origin); I've never had any issues with ads on here....I'm assuming you're referring to desktop version though right, and not Tapatalk (because I do see ads on there)?

I use cellphone. The ads are so annoying, some pics are very terrifying to me


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[WickedLester]

Not suggesting anything. But there was a guy from my town around 2005 that had a young girl who was going to testify against him about him sexually assaulting his daughters. He went into her house and shot her while she was getting ready for school. Melvin keeling was his name. He then left Ohio and killed a couple more people in Indiana before killing himself in Gary Indiana.


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Right but there are no known facts about that in this case. We've been told many times that the girls were there to enjoy the outdoors and take pictures.

I would suspect that if LE had another known motive they would release it as it would generate tips.

 

[heaterann]

I agree to an extent.

If you mean a meet up with what they thought was a boy their age, I tend to disagree because I think they would have been able to find the BG through some sort of an electronic trail by now. IMO
Also, they weren't dressed up as one might think they might be if they were planning to meet a boy. They were dressed as friends who decided to get together and go for a walk. I think it was said that Libby was wearing sweats and a tie dyed shirt. I could be wrong, but my hunch is that this wasn't anything like that. All this is JMO!

On the other hand, I agree that it was a planned meet up on behalf of the suspect. I believe he had a grocery bag under his jacket and came armed with a plan. The question I have is: Was he just hoping to attack just anyone who looked vulnerable or did he specifically stalk and target them? If the answer to the second question is yes...Then my question becomes: How did he know about their plans? Did they go anywhere with their ride before arriving at the park? A gas station? Fast food restaurant? What did they do before the park? They were together during the previous day...Did they make plans to go hiking and someone overheard at that time? It could be something as simple as their ride (who is no way at fault) saying in passing, "I can't do something at that time. I promised Libby and Abby that I would take them to the park."

Social media: Like I said, I'm not getting the sense that they were planning on meeting a boy. However, it's so easy to stalk someone via Facebook. This could simply be some friend of a friend that gets status updates from one of the girl's family members and developed a fixation and found out their plans. I don't believe that the girl's knew their killer. I think that he "knew" them. So I believe that this was a planned meet up in that sense. JMO!

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I agree the meet up was not with some catfish or random person... I believe the meet up was with someone they knew IMHO.... I think when BG showed up that may have been what triggered Libby to start filming, this was clearly not who was suppose to be there at that specfic time to meet up with them.... All IMHO

 

[Avejajed]

I'm interested to know why it's relevant to some of you whether or not RL is an alcoholic. You don't have to be an alcoholic to get drunk and kill someone, accidentally or on purpose.

Also, it's my opinion that his drinking problems aren't "new" like some posters have hypothesized in theorizing his innocence. IF he's an alcoholic, which I'd guess he is even though it really has no bearing on this case, you notice he only started having issues after (one of his) divorce. I highly doubt that's what led to his drinking. It's just when he was married, he always had a DD. And by 77, I highly doubt any kind of rehab is going to "cure" him.

His alcoholism or lack of it though does not mean a thing to me in regards to this case. The only thing I can take from his prior arrests is that he does, in fact, drink, and drinks enough to get drunk. Habitually or not, like I said, it doesn't take an alcoholic to get drunk enough to kill someone.

 

[barbarababe]

I'm with you. The "poor old honorable man who just had a beer" schtick makes no sense to me.

In my business I have had multiple cases where the opposing side is a dangerous alcoholic or alcohol abuser and doesn't get caught despite repeatedly driving drunk. The odds of getting caught are slim. You have to be doing it a lot to get caught once and to get caught twice or three times? Get out of here. Dude has a serious problem.

And these types are often quite abusive and filled with rage. I've had way too much experience both professionally and personally with alcohol abusers to be naive enough to think this is a fluke or that RL is a kindly grandpa.

So your experience with other people who you have met/know is the basis for you acting like you know RL personally? PLEASE. Every single person is different. You cannot say because you have met some bad apples that you can form an opinion or pass judgements on someone who you don't know and know next to nothing about.

 

[Techjunkie]

<snip
"Originally Posted by FreeRoad Software Engineer for Google Average Salary $81,184 - $172,061
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...tware-Engineer
Police Officer positions do not require a college degree. Median Salary $49,297
Delphi, IN Police Officer salary $53,000
Detroit, MI median salary is $53,225
Rookie New York Cop salary is $41,975
<snip

Salary alone is not a fair comparison to other private sector (non public) jobs. When you consider the age and years service eligibility for retirement, the ability to include overtime in pension calculation and the ability to work another job (20 years or more) after retirement. Some cops make a fortune.

 

[Bemused]

So many excellent points and theories. I keep waffling, but my expertise lies in a particular subset of white collar crime so what do I know about murder. So confusing to me is the motive. Guess we'll have to wait & see if this crime is ever solved and I hope it is.

 

[whiskers]

Right but there are no known facts about that in this case. We've been told many times that the girls were there to enjoy the outdoors and take pictures.

I would suspect that if LE had another known motive they would release it as it would generate tips.

Would LE release if one of the girls was being sexually abused or had been in the past? It doesn't seem like they would to me. /moo

 

[Bemused]

Jumping off this...what if he was paid to leave for the day(s). Is it standard for LE to look at bank accounts? Or is that just a TV thing?

I'd guess it is pretty standard.

 

[Avejajed]

So your experience with other people who you have met/know is the basis for you acting like you know RL personally? PLEASE. Every single person is different. You cannot say because you have met some bad apples that you can form an opinion or pass judgements on someone who you don't know and know next to nothing about.

Technically that's what everyone is doing, though. People that swear his innocence are also basing their opinions on suppositions and not facts. "He's too old" "He's a nice old man" "He's not an alcoholic" "He wouldn't do this" "He doesn't look anything like the picture" "I would swear he would never have done this" when in fact NONE of us know him (That I know of, anyway) and everything we do or say here is based on nothing but personal opinions based on our own personal experiences and conjecture. None of us have the full picture with all of the facts so we're just trying to piece the thing together the best we can. Doesn't mean anyone's right or wrong, but it's certainly not up to us to judge each other on our opinions or life experiences.

 

[Novelist]

Right but there are no known facts about that in this case. We've been told many times that the girls were there to enjoy the outdoors and take pictures.

I would suspect that if LE had another known motive they would release it as it would generate tips.

If I had a nickel for every time I told my parents I was going somewhere for an intended purpose but it was for something else I would be rich. All that to say we have the word of parents, LE, but not where it came from. The only people who can say 100% for sure why they were there were murdered. IMO there could have been a different reason for being there. Not a "bad" one, but just something else besides taking pictures.

I am in no way saying the girls are liars and bad people. But they were normal teens. Normal teens tell their parents things that are not quite true. Father of two boys here that just came out of their teens.

MOO

 

[Tulessa]

Anyone needing any pictures or links pertaining to this case, can find them right here in the media thread.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-maps-amp-timelines&p=13163455#post13163455

 

[barbarababe]

Technically that's what everyone is doing, though. People that swear his innocence are also basing their opinions on suppositions and not facts. "He's too old" "He's a nice old man" "He's not an alcoholic" "He wouldn't do this" "He doesn't look anything like the picture" "I would swear he would never have done this" when in fact NONE of us know him (That I know of, anyway) and everything we do or say here is based on nothing but personal opinions based on our own personal experiences and conjecture. None of us have the full picture with all of the facts so we're just trying to piece the thing together the best we can. Doesn't mean anyone's right or wrong, but it's certainly not up to us to judge each other on our opinions or life experiences.

I just don't think it's right to say these sorts of things online about this guy who none of us know. LE has not ruled him in or out so as far as I am concerned it's in extremely poor taste.

 

[FreeRoad]

I was reading this thread 2 hours ago and somehow ended up in February and didn't even realise I was there, I read pages and pages of the same stuff until it clicked that I was rereading old stuff. I got back to this thread and saw a debate about the hat again.

:floorlaugh:

One of the things I picked up down the rabbit hole was a police description of what BG was wearing. He has blue jeans a blue jacket and a hoodie no hat! Don't ask me what page it was on but it was in February. I got a bit of a shock when I looked at the date and the fact that all the stuff I had been reading was on closed threads. lol
So maybe he has long hair because he certainly doesn't have a hat.

Says something about us, doesn't it? :deadhorse:

Wish there was more information. Updates. Anything.
JOM

 

[haystack]

My post would say the same if it were allowed in...are mods screening all posts? mine said it would post after review. What is that? It's not any worse than what I have seen on here so far. lol

If I had a nickel for every time I told my parents I was going somewhere for an intended purpose but it was for something else I would be rich. All that to say we have the word of parents, LE, but not where it came from. The only people who can say 100% for sure why they were there were murdered. IMO there could have been a different reason for being there. Not a "bad" one, but just something else besides taking pictures.

I am in no way saying the girls are liars and bad people. But they were normal teens. Normal teens tell their parents things that are not quite true. Father of two boys here that just came out of their teens.

MOO

 

[ocgrad]

I have often pondered this situation. What if RL is indeed cooperating after a few days of refusing to do so and then had a change of heart? Could he have told them :
1. I'm afraid of what will happen to me ( or someone else, unknown) if I tell you what I know.
2. Could RL possibly be blackmailed by the murderer in a way that makes him an accomplice, in that , the murderer threatens to reveal illegal ( tho not murder) information about RL , that would cause him to lose money, land, freedom , if RL tells about the murders.
3. Is it possible that RL found evidence on or in his properties, buildings, barn, AFTER the murders were discovered, that someone unknown to him had been holed up, staying there , commited the murders there, or found evidence of murder and was inclined to not reveal this in order to not implicate himself.
4. Possibly LE agreed to protect him while evidence is being processed? AFTER he does the 15 (?) day probation violation time? But, in the meantime he is being protected by serving time he brought on himself.
5. Possibly , only after being reassured by LE they would protect him, his property, his $$, and person's unknown, etc. Then he started talking, revealing what he knows.

I seem to swap out what side of the fence I'm on lately. So now I'm just going to sit on it.

Do we know a positive height on RL? To do a comparison to BG? If not, can his height be determined (approx) by the same means some of our fellow members have used? By using a known measurement nearby in a photo or video of RL, then doing calculations to determine approx height?

IMOHO ^^ all above

I think RL'S involvement is something like this, 1-5 I can't say which. He's taller than BG, IMO.

 

[Jax49]

Technically that's what everyone is doing, though. People that swear his innocence are also basing their opinions on suppositions and not facts. "He's too old" "He's a nice old man" "He's not an alcoholic" "He wouldn't do this" "He doesn't look anything like the picture" "I would swear he would never have done this" when in fact NONE of us know him (That I know of, anyway) and everything we do or say here is based on nothing but personal opinions based on our own personal experiences and conjecture. None of us have the full picture with all of the facts so we're just trying to piece the thing together the best we can. Doesn't mean anyone's right or wrong, but it's certainly not up to us to judge each other on our opinions or life experiences.

Just jumping off your post. I'm somewhere in the middle. I do not believe RL is the man on the bridge. But I think he may have been involved in some way, directly or not. With or without his knowledge.
I'll be disappointed if he is directly involved but it won't be the biggest surprise ever.

 

[Bemused]

I just don't think it's right to say these sorts of things online about this guy who none of us know. LE has not ruled him in or out so as far as I am concerned it's in extremely poor taste.

And yet you're here and reading. No snark intended, simple curiosity.

No one here who has expressed their opinion based on what is publicly known about RL will bear any responsibility if RL is charged for these crimes. I think it's fair to assume the police are looking at him very closely based on evidence and not opinions on an Internet forum.

 

[Avejajed]

I just don't think it's right to say these sorts of things online about this guy who none of us know. LE has not ruled him in or out so as far as I am concerned it's in extremely poor taste.

Sleuthing people we're allowed to sleuth on WEBSLEUTHS is kind of the theme.