IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[skibaboo]

For me the discussion about his alcohol use is simply relevant to point out that this is not an upstanding citizen in the community who is being railroaded simply because he has a beer or two and could never commit this crime. I see some posts that appear to view this man as a Santa Claus figure. And frankly I think that's because people saw his initial interviews and felt for him, having such a terrible crime committed on his property. Once people vest their feelings in another and relate, it can be quite difficult to see that person in a different light.

Of course alcoholism is a diagnosis. None of us can diagnose someone through the internet. And to me it is not relevant if he has such a diagnosis because people can abuse alcohol and not be alcoholics.


We are also aware that alcohol abuse does not make someone a murderer or child molester. True.


However, it can be relevant to certain things. One, people who abuse alcohol are, as others have pointed out, often extremely dishonest and manipulative. They can also be filled with rage and have problems with their impulses.


Do those qualities make such a person a murderer? No. But it does refute the notion that such a person is honorable and could never do anything terrible.


Two. A rap sheet like this man has is quite indicative of alcohol abuse. Does someone who stops at a bar at the end of the day to have a beer or two qualify as a drunk? No. But someone who continues to stop at the bar after work after just one DUI, has a huge problem. For normal, upstanding people, the days of driving home from the bar are over forever after one DUI.


Three. That brings me to a third point. Alcohol abusers or alcoholics have a mental health disorder. They are not bad people or criminals just because they have a disorder. Agreed to whoever was pointing that out earlier. They deserve help and compassion.


But when someone continually and narcissistically chooses to endanger others instead of obtaining treatment, that DOES go to their overall character.


This man has a heavy rap sheet. Keep in mind that the Indiana court docket appears to only go back to 2010. And since then, RL has been pretty busy:


2014
9-30-5-3(a)(1)/FD: Operating a Vehicle with a BAC of .08 or greater, 9-30-5-2(b)/MA: Operating A Vehicle While Intoxicated; Endangering A Person, 9-30-5-1(a)(1)/MC: Operating a Vehicle with a BAC of .08 or More per Blood, 35-44.1-2-3(d)(1)/MA: False Informing, 9-24-19-2/MA: Driving While Suspended (Prior w/in 10 years), 9-21-8-31/IFC: Failure to Yield Right of Way at Entrance to Through Highway


2013
9-30-5-2(a) & (b)/FD: Operating a Vehicle While Intoxicated Endangering a Person, 9-30-5-1(a)(2)/MC: Operating a Vehicle with a BAC of .08 or More per Breath


FEB. 2011
9-30-5-2(a)/MA: Operating a Vehicle While Intoxicated Endangering a Person, 9-30-5-1(a)/MC: Oper Veh w/ Alcohol Concentration Equivalent to at Least .08 but Less than .15, 35-44-2-2(d)(1)/MA: False Informing, 9-30-15-3/IFC: Open Alcoholic Beverage Container During Operation of a Motor Vehicle, 9-24-19-1/IFA: Driving While Suspended


JAN. 2011
9-30-5-2(a)/MA: Operating a Vehicle While Intoxicated Endangering a Person, 9-30-5-1(a)/MC: Oper Veh w/ Alcohol Concentration Equivalent to at Least .08 but Less than .15



The odds of such a rap sheet on the part of a casual drinker with bad luck is nonexistent.


Of course again, it does not make the man a murderer. Of course not. But it does refute the notion that he's Santa Claus and it may say something about his character and the chaos within him.


I have no idea whether this man is involved. Clearly LE has grounded suspicions and is doing its job and checking it out. To me, his build is very close to BG and his voice sounds the same. His head does not resemble the grainy BG photo so much though.


In confident that LE is working hard and knows what it's doing. I don't share the opinion of some that because you can make better money elsewhere, smart, educated people aren't going into law enforcement. Especially the FBI which is working this case.


I'm prepared to hear this man has been arrested for something related to this crime. I'm also prepared to hear that he's been totally cleared and someone else is suspected or arrested. Time will tell.


But witch hunt of a kindly gentleman who just likes to have a beer now and then? Nope.


Finally, it's true that arrests and investigations like this have cast a pall and caused anguish on the part of innocent people and those who love them. I hate that. Sometimes that is due to inexperience, prejudice, blunders, or narrowed focus. But mostly I think that's due to the necessity of seeking justice for the innocent. For the most part I think LE is competent and thorough and sometimes has to investigate angles that turn out to be dead ends and hurt people in the process, inadvertently.


But the cost of failing to do their job because they're afraid of harming an innocent person's reputation would be catastrophic to community safety.


And I don't think speculation on Websleuths is any part of the problem anyhow. The rules tightly control what is posted here to minimize the pain speculation can cause. Go to Facebook or any of the comments at the ends of articles about this. Clearly this site and its posters are not the problem.

Yes!! So eloquently put too gitana, thank you

 

[Burnt Toast]

Yes someone wants him to sell the property. This will take a health toll on him if he's not involved. Money and inheritence makes people do drastic things.

and what indications have lead you to come to that conclusion??

 

[annamarie1]

Originally Posted by mandy.maree People are seeing all sorts of things in that pic. Cars, logos ,several creepers behind trees, the ghost of Lincoln.. Im sure if you zoom in close enough you can find whatever fits the theory you are working with.
I dont think there is anything in this pic but Abby on the bridge .
I have seen zoomed in and altered versions where it does look like car wheels there..but I am doubtful.

Look carefully!

I also have looked, numerous times and see nothing except AW on the bridge.
Maybe I need to update my prescription glasses LOL

If you send me the photo I will point it out it is at the very distant of the tracks. Actually off the tracks to your right. You will see shadow of dark blue jacket and light blue pants. It is hard to see.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 278]

Can someone please tell me what alcohol has to do with this crime?

 

[Elley Mae]

I am an Indiana native and me and my buddies at work have been analyzing this for days now. We are pretty familiar with the "type of guy" who wears the attire seen in the BG photos and with the "type of guy" who dresses/acts like RL....since this is my first post, I'm going to make sure this posts before I continue...don't want to waste a ton of time typing if my posts cannot be seen.

Welcome to Websleuth!

 

[Spellbound]

I would agree with most of what you said. What if you came back from drinking at a bar to find 2 girls murdered in your home? You couldn't use a vehicle to remove the bodies because now the whole neighborhood was crawling with searchers and police...While having them found on your property is a bad option, it's not as bad as them being found in your home. Search is suspended after midnight you move the bodies and the next day you go into town to buy cleaning supplies when the search resumes... JMO!

ahhh.... I would like to believe I would call the police and I would not touch anything. I absolutely would not ingrain myself in a murder by moving bodies someone else had killed. Murder charges are much more severe than added probation for a drinking violation. (if I was really worried about having been out drinking and getting in trouble for reporting murders, I might, but only a slight might, call my lawyer and tell him what is going on, and ask what I should do.)

 

[apples12]

IMO it would be within the realm of possibility for the following scenario. This is only a theory...no accusations are being made. I'm curious to hear what you all think about the plausibility of this versus it being way far-fetched.

Individual has a chronic condition of abusing alcohol over at least ten years (with any physical/psychological deterioration this could cause) develops deep-seated resentments about his life and the way it turned out. Narcissistic needs for validation and appreciation are not being met, anger festers. Outwardly he presents as fairly unremarkable, inwardly, however he is seething, fantasizing about getting even, showing "them", etc. He nurtures an idea about killing somebody out in the woods, thinks about it, fantasizes about it. He starts to put together a plan. With a gun, get control of victim(s). Use duct tape and restraints...if two victims, get one to first restrain and gag the other. You use gloves. Get them "down the hill" as fast as possible, into a secluded structure (house, garage, shed, silo, barn) until nighttime.Here, you sadistically enjoy the fear, terror, helplessness, etc. of these two happy humans who are barely starting their lives, unlike yourself. In the wee hours of the morning, say 3 am, walks the restrained victim(s) back through your own private property...then do whatever you want to do. Clean up the scene and wait it out. You have no history of reported violence except for that one restraining order in 2013, but that doesn't prove anything.

 

[Anadrol]

OK, since it looks like I'm allowed to post, here goes...

BG is wearing multiple layers on a cold day. This is typical of an outdoor labor type of guy. My best guess is a truck driver who knows that he'll have to get out and unchain his load in cold weather. He wants several breathing layers of clothing so that he can quickly unzip to cool off when he's inside and quickly zip everything up to stay warm when he's outside. RL is wearing the exact same type of layering in his interviews: t shirt followed by what looks like a shoulder harness gun holster, followed by a blue cotton shirt, following by a navy blue zip-up hoodie, followed by a green quilted insulated coat. Even the camo hat matches what I see in the BG photo- a forward facing camo hat with a curved bill.

 

[amkidd78]

Did you cross the bridge from the end by the cemetery or by the other end? I just wonder which way is the easier way that most people go?

I have been there on the bridge and you really get a good idea of what it would have taken in the amount of time that was available.......they got dropped off at the NW entrance approx. 1:30 and walked SE to the end by 2:00pm and by the time they got there she turned around and the BG was coming towards them....2:30pm is the pic of him or so....and they believe that is when he ordered them down the hill... this puts them on the wrong side they were found.....it would have taken at least a hour or more to get back across down and to the right and head back SE to where they found them.......there isn't a end of the bridge that is near the cemetery.....it is directly across the creek to the north of the bridge....

 

[tokyorose]

Can someone please tell me what alcohol has to do with this crime?

RL who is PO was arrested and jailed for violating his probation for 3 DUI offenses.. on 3/17 LE executed a search warrant on his property related to the murders. Alcohol is a topic for discussion because the PO may have lied about his alibi during the abduction because he didn't want to go back to jail for buying tropical fish... I mean being at a bar.

 

[kittymittons]

OK, since it looks like I'm allowed to post, here goes...

BG is wearing multiple layers on a cold day. This is typical of an outdoor labor type of guy. My best guess is a truck driver who knows that he'll have to get out and unchain his load in cold weather. He wants several breathing layers of clothing so that he can quickly unzip to cool off when he's inside and quickly zip everything up to stay warm when he's outside. RL is wearing the exact same type of layering in his interviews: t shirt followed by what looks like a shoulder harness gun holster, followed by a blue cotton shirt, following by a navy blue zip-up hoodie, followed by a green quilted insulated coat. Even the camo hat matches what I see in the BG photo- a forward facing camo hat with a curved bill.

To be fair, my father owns layers that look just like that, and a curved bill camo ball cap. All of my uncles do too, and they don't live in Indiana. It's all very common clothing for midwestern men to wear. JMO.

 

[Bemused]

Would you do that..?

-Nin

How can I know what I might do under certain circumstances? If I had been drinking, who knows. It makes more sense to me given what the police have said and done thus far. I'll be very surprised if there wasn't staging of the scene and there actually is a madman no one can identify or name to our knowledge,

 

[AFTM]

You guys really need to look at this Elizabeth Thomas missing from Columbia Tennessee Look on the Daily Mail at the video they have of the teacher who took her HE LOOKS LIKE BG

Wooed her on snap chat

Started talking and coaxing her in January

He is on video buying hair dye

TEACHER lost his job for inappropriate behavior with 15 year old...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO it would be within the realm of possibility for the following scenario. This is only a theory...no accusations are being made. I'm curious to hear what you all think about the plausibility of this versus it being way far-fetched.

Individual has a chronic condition of abusing alcohol over at least ten years (with any physical/psychological deterioration this could cause) develops deep-seated resentments about his life and the way it turned out. Narcissistic needs for validation and appreciation are not being met, anger festers. Outwardly he presents as fairly unremarkable, inwardly, however he is seething, fantasizing about getting even, showing "them", etc. He nurtures an idea about killing somebody out in the woods, thinks about it, fantasizes about it. He starts to put together a plan. With a gun, get control of victim(s). Use duct tape and restraints...if two victims, get one to first restrain and gag the other. You use gloves. Get them "down the hill" as fast as possible, into a secluded structure (house, garage, shed, silo, barn) until nighttime.Here, you sadistically enjoy the fear, terror, helplessness, etc. of these two happy humans who are barely starting their lives, unlike yourself. In the wee hours of the morning, say 3 am, walks the restrained victim(s) back through your own private property...then do whatever you want to do. Clean up the scene and wait it out. You have no history of reported violence except for that one restraining order in 2013, but that doesn't prove anything.

Since you asked for opinions...
Way far-fetched.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Can someone please tell me what alcohol has to do with this crime?

i would like to know as well.

 

[Elley Mae]

Can someone please tell me what alcohol has to do with this crime?

I have no idea, since he has had SW in reference to the murders so he has been made sleuthable. < is that word? So his records of dwi/dui have been searched. Jmo

 

[tokyorose]

ahhh.... I would like to believe I would call the police and I would not touch anything. I absolutely would not ingrain myself in a murder by moving bodies someone else had killed. Murder charges are much more severe than added probation for a drinking violation. (if I was really worried about having been out drinking and getting in trouble for reporting murders, I might, but only a slight might, call my lawyer and tell him what is going on, and ask what I should do.)

I may be on really thin ice, but what if you wanted to protect the person whom you knew committed the murders... would you still call the police? Also remember RL has a history with LE that has not gone well in his estimation, would he trust LE not to suspect him?

 

[Nanjack00]

I wouldn't really trust that photo anyway. I believe this is the photo that has been photoshopped. Look between the railroad ties. Someone tried to pass this picture off saying there is a face under there. You can clearly see a face which was put in there. This is when people were adding things.

 

[Deleted member 278]

RL who is PO was arrested and jailed for violating his probation for 3 DUI offenses.. on 3/17 LE executed a search warrant on his property related to the murders. Alcohol is a topic for discussion because the PO may have lied about his alibi during the abduction because he didn't want to go back to jail for buying tropical fish... I mean being at a bar.

Still doesn't answer my question.

 

[bluesneakers]

To be fair, my father owns layers that look just like that, and a curved bill camo ball cap. All of my uncles do too, and they don't live in Indiana. It's all very common clothing for midwestern men to wear. JMO.

I think common for anywhere rural (or semi-rural if the man is a laborer or outdoorsy type). I've seen this look all over the west coast and mid-Atlantic.