IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[Burnt Toast]

This is what/where i am confused, if the SW is sealed how is it known what the probable cause is in reference too?

In reference to the murders?

In reference to the probation violation?

Jmo

because LE said it was in connection to the double homicide.

 

[jillycat]

JMO, if RL is guilty, he would have committed murders before in the past. Committing your first murder out of an alcoholic rage (over what? we don't know) at 77 years old seems like a stretch, IMO. I think members from the community would be coming forward and saying RL has had anger issues in the past, history of DM, etc. JMO.

I just feel like this thread is turning into debating what is and isn't an alcoholic, and also bashing alcoholics, people with serious issues that need help. Maybe I'm just sensitive to this issue.

Not to mention that we have no idea what type of crime this was. I have my own thoughts and I don't think it involves a 77 year old man who drank, got angry, then lured/killed two kids in broad daylight, and left the bodies on his own property. I definitely don't think it involves a 77 year old property owner who drank, escalated, abducted them, killed them elsewhere, then brought them back to be found on his property.

It's been stated by law enforcement that this is a complicated/convoluted (something to that effect) case. I just think if this was about an alcoholic who, by the way, is a crazed child killer under the influence, or had an alcoholic anger management problem that led to a tragedy on this scale, we'd know that by now. My guess is this was a far more pathologically driven murder by a truly sick perp who's done this before, knew exactly how to carry this off in that environment, and was extremely confident. JMO

 

[gitana1]

You most definetely be could be right. But its hard to hide the effects of a rage attack to look like a planned one IMO.

Rage doesn't always have to be the frothing at the mouth, out of control kind. We've read of multiple cases, endless cases, where a person murders someone in a cold, calculated and planned manner due to deep anger, revenge, whatever. Several just recently where dads kill kids to punish mom or moms kill kids to punish dads.

I also think about some of these older dudes who have shot kids on their property or shot neighbors because they are paranoid or filled with anger over perceived slights or whatever.

Then there are just cases of people who are filled with anger and want to vent it on the innocent for whatever bizarre reason. Like the BTK killer. Or countless serial killers or mass murderers who hate women or nurses or want to harm random people to send a message. Remember all those cases of shooters who randomly shoot people on freeways for no reason? You think they're not filled with rage?

 

[tokyorose]

If they did not cross the creek they how did they get to the bank on the other side? The direction they were traveling was southeast on the bridge from all the pictures provided on her snapchat. At the end of the bridge is where he said based on evidence to get down the hill......that would put them on the opposite side of the creek from where they were found.

All you would have to do is turn around and walk back across the bridge right?

 

[EntreNous]

This web page is not very "readable". Seems like I should be able to click on a reply in the main thread and see all the subsequent replies.

Also,I posted a reply twice - never showed up. Also, shouldn't I get a notification if if someone replies to my thread?

ShellyBelly this is a message board. It doesn't operate like Facebook.

 

[mazblondie]

I'm mad and push you. You fall and hit your head. You're either already dead or I think you are. Your friend witnesses the act, so I panic and have to silence you. I can't bear the shame or horror of everyone in my small town knowing what I did, so I maybe cause additional injuries in some method and I stage your bodies to what I think looks like a madman or SK would do. I then am happy to show the media around while making statements about things, and I leave my property even though there is an active search on.

Good point..in fact great points.

I still don't think RL is BG guy,, but we will see.

MOO

 

[FreeRoad]

OT - if I were a moderator than any post that began with "OT" would automatically be deleted. Readers are here to read about a specific topic. [emoji50]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

O/T Just acknowledging that I "thanked" even though I myself have been guilty of this. Hereby resolving to be more self-disciplined. Mods- I would not be frustrated if you were more strict with us. That said, I sure have appreciated the humor and tips a lot of you have shared. MOO

 

[Rosewater20]

A 71 female bodybuilder is about to appear on the Harry show. Well in my time zone. .........we were talking about older people not always being frail as some people think. Now not saying the perp is Mr Logan either.

 

[kittymittons]

Not to mention that we have no idea what type of crime this was. I have my own thoughts and I don't think it involves a 77 year old man who drank, got angry, then lured/killed two kids in broad daylight, and left the bodies on his own property. I definitely don't think it involves a 77 year old property owner who drank, escalated, abducted them, killed them elsewhere, then brought them back to be found on his property.

It's been stated by law enforcement that this is a complicated/convoluted (something to that effect) case. I just think if this was about an alcoholic who, by the way, is a crazed child killer under the influence, or had an alcoholic anger management problem that led to a tragedy on this scale, we'd know that by now. My guess is this was a far more pathologically driven murder by a truly sick perp who's done this before, knew exactly how to carry this off in that environment, and was extremely confident. JMO

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[kittymittons]

A 71 female bodybuilder is about to appear on the Harry show. Well in my time zone. .........we were talking about older people not always being frail as some people think. Now not saying the perp is Mr Logan either.

Mr. Logan also isn't a body builder. I don't think he's frail by any means either, but thats not really a fair comparison.

 

[gitana1]

Alcohol releases anger and aggressive behaviors, and anger and frustration can lead to drinking (and for those trying to control their drinking - to relapse.)
While not everyone becomes aggressive after drinking alcohol, alcohol intoxication is associated with about half of all violent crimes in America and for people already prone to anger and violence, adding alcohol to the mix is like adding gasoline to a fire. I simply do not understand why this is seen as irrelevant in this case. NOBODY is speculating or accusing him of the murder. A few people are speculating that he knows more about the crime. Everybody is within the TOS of this site as they add their ideas to the mix.

In addition, looking at the facts only, this is an individual who repeatedly ignores the terms of his probation. IMOO this is because (a) he's sick and can't control himself (e.g. an alcoholic) or (b) he doesn't feel that the rules apply to him.

For me the discussion about his alcohol use is simply relevant to point out that this is not an upstanding citizen in the community who is being railroaded simply because he has a beer or two and could never commit this crime. I see some posts that appear to view this man as a Santa Claus figure. And frankly I think that's because people saw his initial interviews and felt for him, having such a terrible crime committed on his property. Once people vest their feelings in another and relate, it can be quite difficult to see that person in a different light.

Of course alcoholism is a diagnosis. None of us can diagnose someone through the internet. And to me it is not relevant if he has such a diagnosis because people can abuse alcohol and not be alcoholics.


We are also aware that alcohol abuse does not make someone a murderer or child molester. True.


However, it can be relevant to certain things. One, people who abuse alcohol are, as others have pointed out, often extremely dishonest and manipulative. They can also be filled with rage and have problems with their impulses.


Do those qualities make such a person a murderer? No. But it does refute the notion that such a person is honorable and could never do anything terrible.


Two. A rap sheet like this man has is quite indicative of alcohol abuse. Does someone who stops at a bar at the end of the day to have a beer or two qualify as a drunk? No. But someone who continues to stop at the bar after work after just one DUI, has a huge problem. For normal, upstanding people, the days of driving home from the bar are over forever after one DUI.


Three. That brings me to a third point. Alcohol abusers or alcoholics have a mental health disorder. They are not bad people or criminals just because they have a disorder. Agreed to whoever was pointing that out earlier. They deserve help and compassion.


But when someone continually and narcissistically chooses to endanger others instead of obtaining treatment, that DOES go to their overall character.


This man has a heavy rap sheet. Keep in mind that the Indiana court docket appears to only go back to 2010. And since then, RL has been pretty busy:


2014
9-30-5-3(a)(1)/FD: Operating a Vehicle with a BAC of .08 or greater, 9-30-5-2(b)/MA: Operating A Vehicle While Intoxicated; Endangering A Person, 9-30-5-1(a)(1)/MC: Operating a Vehicle with a BAC of .08 or More per Blood, 35-44.1-2-3(d)(1)/MA: False Informing, 9-24-19-2/MA: Driving While Suspended (Prior w/in 10 years), 9-21-8-31/IFC: Failure to Yield Right of Way at Entrance to Through Highway


2013
9-30-5-2(a) & (b)/FD: Operating a Vehicle While Intoxicated Endangering a Person, 9-30-5-1(a)(2)/MC: Operating a Vehicle with a BAC of .08 or More per Breath


FEB. 2011
9-30-5-2(a)/MA: Operating a Vehicle While Intoxicated Endangering a Person, 9-30-5-1(a)/MC: Oper Veh w/ Alcohol Concentration Equivalent to at Least .08 but Less than .15, 35-44-2-2(d)(1)/MA: False Informing, 9-30-15-3/IFC: Open Alcoholic Beverage Container During Operation of a Motor Vehicle, 9-24-19-1/IFA: Driving While Suspended


JAN. 2011
9-30-5-2(a)/MA: Operating a Vehicle While Intoxicated Endangering a Person, 9-30-5-1(a)/MC: Oper Veh w/ Alcohol Concentration Equivalent to at Least .08 but Less than .15



The odds of such a rap sheet on the part of a casual drinker with bad luck is nonexistent.


Of course again, it does not make the man a murderer. Of course not. But it does refute the notion that he's Santa Claus and it may say something about his character and the chaos within him.


I have no idea whether this man is involved. Clearly LE has grounded suspicions and is doing its job and checking it out. To me, his build is very close to BG and his voice sounds the same. His head does not resemble the grainy BG photo so much though.


In confident that LE is working hard and knows what it's doing. I don't share the opinion of some that because you can make better money elsewhere, smart, educated people aren't going into law enforcement. Especially the FBI which is working this case.


I'm prepared to hear this man has been arrested for something related to this crime. I'm also prepared to hear that he's been totally cleared and someone else is suspected or arrested. Time will tell.


But witch hunt of a kindly gentleman who just likes to have a beer now and then? Nope.


Finally, it's true that arrests and investigations like this have cast a pall and caused anguish on the part of innocent people and those who love them. I hate that. Sometimes that is due to inexperience, prejudice, blunders, or narrowed focus. But mostly I think that's due to the necessity of seeking justice for the innocent. For the most part I think LE is competent and thorough and sometimes has to investigate angles that turn out to be dead ends and hurt people in the process, inadvertently.


But the cost of failing to do their job because they're afraid of harming an innocent person's reputation would be catastrophic to community safety.


And I don't think speculation on Websleuths is any part of the problem anyhow. The rules tightly control what is posted here to minimize the pain speculation can cause. Go to Facebook or any of the comments at the ends of articles about this. Clearly this site and its posters are not the problem.

 

[Burnt Toast]

What if someone wanted RL to sell his land? Having 2 young girls murdered in your property would be so upsetting that he may now want to move.in this way it could have been a random hit by someone paid to get RL to sell his land.

i think that is really reaching

 

[tokyorose]

Not to mention that we have no idea what type of crime this was. I have my own thoughts and I don't think it involves a 77 year old man who drank, got angry, then lured/killed two kids in broad daylight, and left the bodies on his own property. I definitely don't think it involves a 77 year old property owner who drank, escalated, abducted them, killed them elsewhere, then brought them back to be found on his property.

It's been stated by law enforcement that this is a complicated/convoluted (something to that effect) case. I just think if this was about an alcoholic who, by the way, is a crazed child killer under the influence, or had an alcoholic anger management problem that led to a tragedy on this scale, we'd know that by now. My guess is this was a far more pathologically driven murder by a truly sick perp who's done this before, knew exactly how to carry this off in that environment, and was extremely confident. JMO

I would agree with most of what you said. What if you came back from drinking at a bar to find 2 girls murdered in your home? You couldn't use a vehicle to remove the bodies because now the whole neighborhood was crawling with searchers and police...While having them found on your property is a bad option, it's not as bad as them being found in your home. Search is suspended after midnight you move the bodies and the next day you go into town to buy cleaning supplies when the search resumes... JMO!

 

[ninij9]

You're going to give her a big head!

Lol. Probably.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[jillycat]

I'm mad and push you. You fall and hit your head. You're either already dead or I think you are. Your friend witnesses the act, so I panic and have to silence you. I can't bear the shame or horror of everyone in my small town knowing what I did, so I maybe cause additional injuries in some method and I stage your bodies to what I think looks like a madman or SK would do. I then am happy to show the media around while making statements about things, and I leave my property even though there is an active search on.

The coroner has sorted that one out, most likely. And if this was the scenario, I think the SK staging would be excluded, and the more pertinent removal of the bodies from the property would be included.

 

[amkidd78]

All you would have to do is turn around and walk back across the bridge right?

He had already encountered them on the south side of the bridge , does it make sense to forcefully walk back across the bridge the direction that they came from? Not IMO, It would be very risky to now been seen ordering them to walk ahead (while gun / weapon) drawn? Plus the time constraints....they were under....doesn't add up

 

[haystack]

All you would have to do is turn around and walk back across the bridge right?

yes, and if you reach the other side, I believe the location they were found is to the right, down the hill...

 

[apples12]

Rage doesn't always have to be the frothing at the mouth, out of control kind. We've read of multiple cases, endless cases, where a person murders someone in a cold, calculated and planned manner due to deep anger, revenge, whatever. Several just recently where dads kill kids to punish mom or moms kill kids to punish dads.

I also think about some of these older dudes who have shot kids on their property or shot neighbors because they are paranoid or filled with anger over perceived slights or whatever.

Then there are just cases of people who are filled with anger and want to vent it on the innocent for whatever bizarre reason. Like the BTK killer. Or countless serial killers or mass murderers who hate women or nurses or want to harm random people to send a message. Remember all those cases of shooters who randomly shoot people on freeways for no reason? You think they're not filled with rage?

Thank you for this post. I don't think one person thinks it went down the way mazblondie described above, or that kittymittons is using as a straw man in the discussion (alcoholic rage).

 

[BunnyHop]

How would I know what posters are saying about him if I didn't first read the posts? LMAO

Also, you completely missed my point. I absolutely am not stupid enough to believe that someone would be charged for some speculations other people made about them online. Uhhh, who would ever think that?

I do however think that some of the things being said about him could cause irreparable damage to his reputation in the future, and could cause a lot of heart ache for his family.

I agree. I wish I could sleuth others. ddsmiley:

But we can't. There's so much out there IMO. It's very frustrating.

"Dad" jean's, I see them everywhere, so what?

Talk about OT, salaries? Really?

I want to know about SW's. I want to know about suspects.
I want to hear from verified locals. 2 cents.

Investigators have served approximately 70 search warrants and subpoenas,

http://fox59.com/2017/03/13/police-...est-a-month-into-delphi-murder-investigation/

I want to see that behind bars!! :jail:

OK, rant over. :rant:


For those looking for a swing ------> :rollercoaster:

 

[haystack]

He had already encountered them on the south side of the bridge , does it make sense to forcefully walk back across the bridge the direction that they came from? Not IMO, It would be very risky to now been seen ordering them to walk ahead (while gun / weapon) drawn? Plus the time constraints....they were under....doesn't add up

unless they were not forced until they were already across the bridge MOO