IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #35

[BunnyHop]

Can someone please tell me what alcohol has to do with this crime?

Honestly, we cannot sleuth others. I would like to see how many here "have a few".

Meth is rampant there, as well as many other drugs.

I really think many "holier than thou" personalities have gone off the rails. See my "Mob Mentality" post above.

 

[Meandmycoffee]

Originally Posted by mandy.maree People are seeing all sorts of things in that pic. Cars, logos ,several creepers behind trees, the ghost of Lincoln.. Im sure if you zoom in close enough you can find whatever fits the theory you are working with.
I dont think there is anything in this pic but Abby on the bridge .
I have seen zoomed in and altered versions where it does look like car wheels there..but I am doubtful.

Look carefully!

I also have looked, numerous times and see nothing except AW on the bridge.
Maybe I need to update my prescription glasses LOL

I totally agree. But here's the thing for me: his clothing is completely generic for a pleasant and cool winter days hike. I don't see logos, but I see clothes my husband, brother, or dad would wear for a day hike. And even though the photo is incredibly grainy, I can say with 100% certainty that I do NOT know BG. I know for sure it's not my neighbor, husband, son or brother.

Im confident he has seen the photo, and knows it's him. Furthermore, someone else most likely recognizes him and his voice, and is just too afraid, beat down, or gullible to speak up... anyway a long winded way to say, that I don't see anything in the photos. (But the photo of him really is worth a thousand words.)

 

[bluesneakers]

Source please. Sounds like pure rumor.


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That's what I'm asking for.

 

[kstephens98]

I think he knows who did it. He might have suspected someone who he knows is familiar with the area and may have been at his house that day. His suspicion was confirmed when he saw the photo from the phone and he went into protection mode. That is why when shown the photo he claims he has never seen that person before and then follows that up with that pic is of such poor quality noone could ever recognize him. If noone can see the guy in the photo then how could he be so sure he didnt know the guy?

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Or, maybe he's only ever seen a reflection of the guy?

 

[Inthedetails]

i would like to know as well.

RL, the property owner, is behind bars for breaking probation on DUI charges.

jmo

 

[kittymittons]

I guess my beef with the alcoholic discussion is that I don't think RL is more likely responsible for the murders because he may have a drinking problem. I don't think that's why LE is there either. We could debate all day as to whether he is an alcoholic or someone with temper problems all day just based on assumptions from the little info we have, but thats not really going to tell us the motive or why LE seems to be so interested in RL.

The girls were found on RL's property, RL has violated his probation related to drinking and driving. This is what we know about RL. We do not know if he has rage problems, or if he is an alcoholic.

I don't think LE is searching RL's property because he violated his probation. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 278]

...watching Dr. Phil

 

[apophenic]

IMO it would be within the realm of possibility for the following scenario. This is only a theory...no accusations are being made. I'm curious to hear what you all think about the plausibility of this versus it being way far-fetched.

Individual has a chronic condition of abusing alcohol over at least ten years (with any physical/psychological deterioration this could cause) develops deep-seated resentments about his life and the way it turned out. Narcissistic needs for validation and appreciation are not being met, anger festers. Outwardly he presents as fairly unremarkable, inwardly, however he is seething, fantasizing about getting even, showing "them", etc. He nurtures an idea about killing somebody out in the woods, thinks about it, fantasizes about it. He starts to put together a plan. With a gun, get control of victim(s). Use duct tape and restraints...if two victims, get one to first restrain and gag the other. You use gloves. Get them "down the hill" as fast as possible, into a secluded structure (house, garage, shed, silo, barn) until nighttime.Here, you sadistically enjoy the fear, terror, helplessness, etc. of these two happy humans who are barely starting their lives, unlike yourself. In the wee hours of the morning, say 3 am, walks the restrained victim(s) back through your own private property...then do whatever you want to do. Clean up the scene and wait it out. You have no history of reported violence except for that one restraining order in 2013, but that doesn't prove anything.

Nope. Up to the point where u say he starts to plan I can see it...but, if we take the police reactions as indicators of an horrific murder scene, I just don't see RL as capable. You don't suddenly develop into a sadist in your 70s. A swift expression of violence perhaps...but not what this crime 'appears' to be.

 

[barbarababe]

What if someone wanted RL to sell his land? Having 2 young girls murdered in your property would be so upsetting that he may now want to move.in this way it could have been a random hit by someone paid to get RL to sell his land.

Except like, no one ever wants to buy a house /land where a murder occurred. Look at Jon Benets house, or the house where Cassie Jo Stoddart was killed.

 

[myzzy]

Some of my thoughts

This is a small town and the minute the girls were found the property's owners name and complete history were known to LE I would assume. I would think a background check of the property and its owners was conducted quite quickly. They would have known he is on probation and what for (if they didn't know him personally since it's a small town). So why wasn't he arrested within a day or two for violating his terms of condition.? Why 3 weeks?

Small towns in my opinion have 6 degrees of separation, and I firmly believe that RL's land or himself is tied to the other search warrants. Something is connecting them. Why or who I do not know but this is my gut feeling.

4 weeks later LE has a sealed search warrant for RL property and home looking for something to either clear or focus on RL. To me that speaks volumes. LE getting some type of information that makes them dig deeper into RL/property. 4 weeks is a long time to follow up on just a "tip" something else is a factor, something more damning, Something has changed.

While LE has stated they have served several other warrants in connection to the girls only two (RL and Bicycle Bridge rd) have been more prominent then the others, Why? Both property's had evidence/stuff removed if I remember correctly.

While LE searched RL's property they removed and red taped a white truck(don't know who it belongs to) which was on his property. Again this speaks volumes. They are not going to impound a vehicle if someone has a suspended licenses/on probation/a drunk ect, they would only do that if he was caught driving it and found to be on probation . which we know was not the case since he was in jail when the vehicle was removed. Why was the white truck removed? Do vehicles get impounded when not being driven for a violation or probation after the fact?

I do not know if my line of thinking is correct or wrong but this is how I have looked at it and what I think. I do not believe RL is the person in the photo shown by LE to be a suspect. But that doesn't mean RL is not connected either purposefully or unknowingly.









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[Bemused]

You guys really need to look at this Elizabeth Thomas missing from Columbia Tennessee Look on the Daily Mail at the video they have of the teacher who took her HE LOOKS LIKE BG

Wooed her on snap chat

Started talking and coaxing her in January

He is on video buying hair dye

TEACHER lost his job for inappropriate behavior with 15 year old...

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I think that's the one where the girl willingly left with him, not abducted.

 

[FriscoKid]

Honestly, we cannot sleuth others. I would like to see how many here "have a few".

Meth is rampant there, as well as many other drugs.

I really think many "holier than thou" personalities have gone off the rails. See my "Mob Mentality" post above.

I think most of the talk about alcohol and DUIs started with the question of what probation he violated. So, it is a legit topic.


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[St. Anthony2017]

and what indications have lead you to come to that conclusion??

Just moo that it is a possibility since we have no motive at this time. The land looks beautiful and is probably worth a lot.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Since you asked for opinions...
Way far-fetched.

I agree...

 

[Yvettea]

Or, maybe he's only ever seen a reflection of the guy?

Nice touch. I'll have to remember this line!

 

[bluesneakers]

I wouldn't really trust that photo anyway. I believe this is the photo that has been photoshopped. Look between the railroad ties. Someone tried to pass this picture off saying there is a face under there. You can clearly see a face which was put in there. This is when people were adding things.View attachment 113259

Pareidolia
Psychological effect of observing human faces in inanimate objects

Pareidolia is a psychological phenomenon in which the mind responds to a stimulus (an image or a sound) by perceiving a familiar pattern where none exists.

Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, the man in the moon, the moon rabbit, and hidden messages within recorded music played in reverse or at higher- or lower-than-normal speeds.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

 

[Bemused]

Still doesn't answer my question.

I would suppose the police would've interviewed him when the initial call came in and they'd be able to smell alcohol if he'd been drinking on the 13th. It may or may not be relevant to what happened that day but no one here can say with certainty it was or wasn't a factor.

 

[AFTM]

I think that's the one where the girl willingly left with him, not abducted.

Yes but he coaxed her to go he is a teacher and they think he was doing it online...
Look at him in video it is the closest thing to BG we have seen yet...

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[Burnt Toast]

Just moo that it is a possibility since we have no motive at this time. The land looks beautiful and is probably worth a lot.

so someone would commit a double homicide on his property, or try to implicate RL as the murderer all to stress him out so he dies early and they get the property or it goes for sale???

 

[gitana1]

So your experience with other people who you have met/know is the basis for you acting like you know RL personally? PLEASE. Every single person is different. You cannot say because you have met some bad apples that you can form an opinion or pass judgements on someone who you don't know and know next to nothing about.

No. I don't know RL personally and don't believe I'm acting as if I do. But I feel I can come to certain judgments about people in general who have rap sheets like he does. And that judgment is that such a person has a problem that he or she has failed to rectify, despite the danger it causes to others.

My belief about the connection between arrests for DUIs and having a drug or alcohol problem is based on experience. Years of it. A record of a DUI or other drug or alcohol-related offense is evidence to a court that the person has a drug or alcohol problem and is a danger to a child (I do family law). When I screen my clients in custody cases I always start by asking:

1. Do either you or your ex have a criminal history?
2. Do either your your ex have a mental health diagnosis?
3. Have you or your ex ever had a domestic violence or civil harassment restraining order?
4. Do either you or your ex have any history of drug or alcohol treatment?

These are major factors that are relevant in custody cases.

My belief about the connection between alcohol abuse and anger issues and/or mental health problems is, however, not just based of years of experience analyzing these cases (which includes reviewing countless psych evaluations. It's also based on expert opinions - not my own:

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...=onepage&q=homicidal behavior alcohol&f=false

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&uid=1991-98239-000

http://www.jsad.com/doi/abs/10.15288/jsa.1985.46.279

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004723529090002S

http://www.choosehelp.com/topics/an...derstand-alcohol-related-anger-and-aggression

And then there is also a correlation between sociopaths and alcohol/substance abuse:

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2010/03...ek-rewards-no-matter-the-consequences-109865/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18653-brain-chemical-is-reward-for-psychopathic-traits/

https://www.elementsbehavioralhealt...use-and-antisocial-personality-disorder-aspd/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2266219

Is RL an alcohol abusing, psychopathic killer? I have no idea. I don't have information showing that. But his rap sheet certainly shows that he has or had a major problem with alcohol that took precedence over the rights and safety of others. And the correlation between alcohol abuse and aggression, as well as personality disorders and alcohol abuse, show, IMO, that it is not insane to wonder.