IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #39

[Jethro4WS]

Yes, in fact, they have.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/23/dna-evidence-recovered-in-delphi-murder-investigation/

That article keeps getting dragged up and LE made a point of reaching out to the media after that story came out to clarify what exactly LE said. Unfortunately, it is one of those articles that was later corrected by LE (the same night/next day) that keeps cropping up around here.

 

[n_6CC]

Yes, That is my opinion as well. BTK ,himself , subdued an entire family. They were murdered.



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I'm also inclined to think that this was a thought out plan. Part of the thrill for SK is "romancing" the plan.
Just some thoughts.

I hope that this person/persons are caught and held accountable for this crime. These poor girls, their family, and community must be/were in absolute fear.


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[Bemused]

I'm hoping OP's contact, no matter OP's good intentions, doesn't talk outside LE circles. I don't know them but every LEO I do know wasn't prone to do so, even after imbibing alcohol.

Don't mean to preach but I can't see how it would help LE if they had loose lips.

 

[Madhom]

IIRC correctly, the bridge itself is not part of the public trail but rather is CSX private property. Some have speculated about BG acting as an official/authority figure. I'm from a RR town, and both CSX and Norfolk Southern have their own accredited police forces with full arrest power to patrol rail property. Perhaps the interaction at the south end of the bridge was the initial engagement, and it was BG posing as Rail authority demanding to escort them off the private property (bridge) and thus, walk them back north across the bridge. This gets them willingly (sort of) to north point of the bridge. They may have felt uneasy but if they knew it was CSX property, likely complied. Then once to the north, "down the hill." This has the added advantage for BG that if anyone encounters them before he gets them off the main trail, he could simply walk away from the girls and it becomes merely a creepy encounter.

 

[Peace777]

I don't think it's a SK I think the guy is a sociopath as defined in these traits at a national symposium done by the FBI
But sociopaths can become SKs at some point I assume . Link here to FBI's list etc on the differences https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201409/the-sociopath-serial-killer-connection

 

[mtnlites]

Make them go quietly

My mother and I, two independent women who fight like tigers when cornered, were attacked by a man with a gun. He forced us to walk the length of an entire city block, and probably would have forced us into the van he was herding us towards, if another random person hadn't just happened upon the scene. The perp was shorter than us, and overweight. There were two of us. Still, he a gun pointed at my head and my mother wouldn't leave me.

Point being, you don't need injections or big stories to move someone from point A to point B. A gun works quite nicely on its own.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think any scenario involving trespassing would probably also show the following characteristics:

A. Evidence that RL was becoming increasingly paranoid or angered over trespassing (multiple calls to the police for trespassers, aggressive encounters with other trespassers etc)

B. BG would most likely need to be family in order to heed RLs orders to track down the trespassers and also to have such a strong emotional tie to the property that he "blows up".

'A' is missing. In my opinion, this reduces the possibility, but does not eliminate this motive. In either case, it would be very beneficial to identify and question sons of RL, nephews, any adult grand children etc.

Yes, "A" is missing. Even more, RL's property does not adjoin the trail or bridge area at all - it is around 800 feet from the bridge to RL's property through the woods on the north side of the creek. That property belongs to someone else entirely (a family trust of some kind if I read tax assessor maps correctly) that also owns the land on the east side of the bridge at its southern end as well.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

Thank you.I stand corrected.

BBM
NIN said .5 or half a second apart

 

[ninij9]

That article keeps getting dragged up and LE made a point of reaching out to the media after that story came out to clarify what exactly LE said. Unfortunately, it is one of those articles that was later corrected by LE (the same night/next day) that keeps cropping up around here.

Is it in the media thread? Maybe mods can remove it if it is. Cut down on its reuse a bit

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[ninij9]

My mother and I, two independent women who fight like tigers when cornered, were attacked by a man with a gun. He forced us to walk the length of an entire city block, and probably would have forced us into the van he was herding us towards, if another random person hadn't just happened upon the scene. The perp was shorter than us, and overweight. There were two of us. Still, he a gun pointed at my head and my mother wouldn't leave me.

Point being, you don't need injections or big stories to move someone from point A to point B. A gun works quite nicely on its own.

OMG, scary stuff. Thankfully you lived to tell!!!
And I 100% agree with you. LE has even hinted at this very thing, stating that both girls were hero's because they stayed together.

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[Deleted member 155000]

Yes, "A" is missing. Even more, RL's property does not adjoin the trail or bridge area at all - it is around 800 feet from the bridge to RL's property through the woods on the north side of the creek. That property belongs to someone else entirely (a family trust of some kind if I read tax assessor maps correctly) that also owns the land on the east side of the bridge at its southern end as well.

A previous poster said RL has called police about a home burglary (certainly trespassing) as well as people entering his barn. I don't know if those incidents have been verified.

In any case, I am not trying to suggest this is the exact scenario that unfolded. Only suggesting paranoia over property or trespassing could be one element that is at play here. And also, continuing to think--in my opinion--that explanations sometimes turn out to be more local and mundane than we guess.

As I have mentioned, I don't favor one theory over another. I still consider everything from some sort of spontaneous confrontation, substance abuse inspired actions, or premeditated stalking. To me, none of these options are ruled out until we have more information.


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[Floridian]

My mother and I, two independent women who fight like tigers when cornered, were attacked by a man with a gun. He forced us to walk the length of an entire city block, and probably would have forced us into the van he was herding us towards, if another random person hadn't just happened upon the scene. The perp was shorter than us, and overweight. There were two of us. Still, he a gun pointed at my head and my mother wouldn't leave me.

Point being, you don't need injections or big stories to move someone from point A to point B. A gun works quite nicely on its own.

Completely agree... And that's awful about your experience. So sorry..

 

[Bemused]

Yes, That is my opinion as well. BTK ,himself , subdued an entire family. They were murdered.



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Inside a home is different than outside in the open in broad daylight.

 

[Confusion]

Okay, I have never thought too seriously about RL as a suspect (at least not working alone) because we have all been working with the idea that these might have been particularly violent and graphic crimes (as LE said, they'd never forget it...like nightmares etc.)

But your comment actually made me think of a scenario.

My grandfather, in his elderly years, became more paranoid about his safety. He once came out with a gun, fearing he might need to defend himself, then discovered the visitor approaching him was only a family member. (Yes. Scary.)

What if RL or some other neighbors had been burglarized before and reported trespassers in his barn, what if he or another neighbor were becoming a bit paranoid about their vulnerability as elderly people as well? What if (hypothetical scenario) he or another neighbor had been drinking a little, got scared, and mistakenly shot a girl thinking it was a more threatening person?

Not saying this is what happened, just saying, if police viewed that on the tape it would still be the stuff of nightmares in my opinion. Seeing or hearing two girls gunned down would be something I'd never forget.

With the audio they have, he would have known it was two young girls and not burglars. MOO


_____
My one question would be, is there any indication that the girls walked through the creek?

 

[ninij9]

For a victim bleeding out and dying, that area might as well be miles away from any help. That's the spot that I think a killer would take someone (just looking at the map and not having ever been there myself) to commit the crime. The water would be a bonus because he could wash up after.

This guy is physically fit. He knows the area, he is comfortable being outdoors for long periods of time and is calm and cool (judging from the voice) which suggests an older, more experienced individual. He's been around the block, so to speak. The long hike from the bridge to the actual spot where the girls were found served many purposes maybe--- one, it took the victims to a secluded and most likely deserted area far from help. Two, it made the girls physically tired and weak as they were likely not accustomed to walking for any long distances in that type of weather/rugged terrain. The killer held all of the cards.

I agree with most things except the weakness of the girls. Ages13 and 14. Both were athletes, and they most very likely were experiencing a huge adrenaline dump out of fear. It doesn't mean anything regardless, but I don't think he was trying to weaken them physically, I think if a true serial killing, the girls youth and strength would give him more of a thrill to overcome. Of course JMO. I still haven't ruled out that they said is a local with a penchant for young teens.

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[Cryptic]

IIRC correctly, the bridge itself is not part of the public trail but rather is CSX private property. Some have speculated about BG acting as an official/authority figure. I'm from a RR town, and both CSX and Norfolk Southern have their own accredited police forces with full arrest power to patrol rail property. Perhaps the interaction at the south end of the bridge was the initial engagement, and it was BG posing as Rail authority demanding to escort them off the private property (bridge) and thus, walk them back north across the bridge. This gets them willingly (sort of) to north point of the bridge. They may have felt uneasy but if they knew it was CSX property, likely complied. Then once to the north, "down the hill." This has the added advantage for BG that if anyone encounters them before he gets them off the main trail, he could simply walk away from the girls and it becomes merely a creepy encounter.

Sadly,I think this is a very likely scenario- and others have used the ploy as well.

The movie Dead Man Walking was loosely based on a crime involving two brothers who were known to approach people on a rural lovers lane claiming to be "security guards" for the land owner. They usually had a rifle for rabbit hunting and would flash a badge to complete their story. Eventually, they moved from harassment and gawking to rape / murder.

As with the brothers from Dead Man Walking "fame", this perpetrator may also have needed to fine tune the ploy and work up his nerve before committing the crime. It might be beneficial for the police to specifically inquire if anybody in the past had been approached by a "security guard" and told to stay off of the bridge, or asked if they had seen people on the bridge etc.

 

[ninij9]

I don't think it's a SK I think the guy is a sociopath as defined in these traits at a national symposium done by the FBI
But sociopaths can become SKs at some point I assume . Link here to FBI's list etc on the differences https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201409/the-sociopath-serial-killer-connection

Your post almost contradicts itself[emoji4] ,
But I think I get where your coming from.

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[Daae]

Right hand watch-it looks like reflecting. If it is a watch he could very well be left handed.


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RL appears to be left handed

 

[kirkassoc]

My mother and I, two independent women who fight like tigers when cornered, were attacked by a man with a gun. He forced us to walk the length of an entire city block, and probably would have forced us into the van he was herding us towards, if another random person hadn't just happened upon the scene. The perp was shorter than us, and overweight. There were two of us. Still, he a gun pointed at my head and my mother wouldn't leave me.

Point being, you don't need injections or big stories to move someone from point A to point B. A gun works quite nicely on its own.

So glad you and your Mother were rescued! The sad thing is, because he didn't "complete" his crime, he probably wasn't caught (and if he was, he didn't serve much time). Just a matter of time before he does what he intended. It's a cat and mouse game with these type of criminals. The worst that happens to them (if they are arrested) is they get free room and board, never work another day in their lives and have free medical and dental, IMHO. I've read where a SK said he wanted to get caught near the end of his career because he was "tired." The only thing that affects them (they have no compassion or empathy) is their own mortality (not incarceration....that's a resting place to them, IMHO). MOO, JMO

 

[Floridian]

Okay folks.. The injection thing, was only diff scenario, jus like someone thinking a lure by a dog or something... It's only a idea...
My opinion is he used a gun for luring and is a SK... after reading everything that's what I feel... That's just what I am leaning to with what I have read... That's all..