IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #39

[Jethro4WS]

Hmmm...I disagree. Not really in the middle of nowhere, its a public park that serves as a hangout for the local kids so it's not so far out that it's inaccessible. Not deserted either, there were others on the trails. There were no leaves on the trees and not a lot of "low brush" to act as a sound barrier, and the visibility through the trees was excellent seeing as it was an unseasonably warm, sunny day. So I agree that it's really hard to imagine someone committing this crime right there out in the open in the middle of the afternoon.

Yep. They could never be sure that someone might come walking along one of the paths that traverses that north side of the creek east of the bridge. Nor could they anticipate someone being out there like that guy who has many drone videos of the area. Nor that there would be someone on the SE end of bridge looking toward that direction. Nor someone in the house at the end of 625 (that passes under the SE end as a private drive) just looking out a window on the side of the house facing where the girls ended up - since that house is not only relatively close but about 50 feet above (in elevation) the crime scene.

 

[expatCanada]

Trespassing where? To RL's lower property, by the creek, is difficult at most to get to by viewing the overhead views and land views. Even Gray's videos has them crossing the creek to get there. It's not an easy thing to do. IMO

Trespassing? It is a distance from RL home, but unless he has laser beams and pressure pads or armed guards, how would he or neighbors know unless caught in the act or found trash, etc?

 

[TeaTime]

Tha last teen I can recall being murdered was around 1985 and took only a little time to solve.so what to make of the present comment about scaling down the investigation crew.

Scaling back on the number of officers dedicated to this case after 30 days is quite normal. The initial influx of help from all number of jurisdictions was to be able to quickly cover as much ground as possible. Now, the list of possible suspects has narrowed, all RSO's have been checked on, all recently released convicts have been scrutinized, all available surveillance cameras have been reviewed, evidence has been collected and delivered to laboratories, all cyber connections have been scrutinized, alibis checked and double checked, untold numbers interviewed, tips traced. The massive leg work is done. Not as many bodies are needed. Plus, these officers need to get back to their own backlog of unsolved crimes. Carroll County, ISP and Delphi PD can handle this now.

 

[Cryptonite]

Trespassing? It is a distance from RL home, but unless he has laser beams and pressure pads or armed guards, how would he or neighbors know unless caught in the act or found trash, etc?

True,I would agree

 

[expatCanada]

Night folks. Maybe tomorrow will be the day the perp(s) are caught. Sleep well

 

[FreeRoad]

Then you're familiar with the area? If someone was up on that bridge with the conditions in mid-February, would people walking the trails below be able to see?

There are lots of useful reference links at the beginning of this (and every) thread, but I found this to be on of the most handy:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...the-two-bodies-were-found-near-delphi-indiana

It has a link to an active google map, and scrolling down below that, about 30 minutes of aerial footage taken the day of the search. If you are having trouble visualizing the lay of the land, or the scale and distances of this case, this one link can be very handy.

Open Google maps to Delphi, Indiana.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Delphi,+IN+46923/@40.588215,-86.6385381,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x881309e3541d5d2b:0xf17e204b5559ad82!8m2!3d40.5875371!4d-86.6750059

You can now zoom in and out on the map, and drag and drop it to zoom in on different areas. Then, going back to the original tab (the news story), watch the video. As you do, there are spots when it stops or goes black- don't close the window, as it will start playing again (and I don't know if this was an issue in the actual chopper footage, or just my internet connection buffering.)

So, while you're watching the video, you can switch back and forth to the google map and really get your bearings. The video was taken at midday during the height of the search, so there is good lighting, they repeatedly circle and zoom and out on the entire area, and if you look at the roads and landmarks (cemetery, creek) you should really (in your mind) start to be able to overlay the labelled map with what you're seeing from the air. And you can also see the type and density of vegetation, height and scale of Monon High Bridge, and steepness of the hills. And you'll see how the trail area is surrounded by farms and residential homes, and probably quite familiar to people living in the area, who like to get out and bushwhack (like these sweet girls.)

I hope these comments are helpful to someone. Apologies if I've over-simplified it, sound redundant, or everybody's already seen this, but I know different folks have different gifts (or not) for map-reading and orienting themselves. Just trying to help. jmo

 

[Patriot10]

May I ask a question? I've seen several people state that they believe that LE knows who their suspect is or that they even have the already in custody (not RL). Would anyone who believes this care to expound upon why? I just want to understand the thought process. TIA!

It's not uncommon for police to have a very strong idea of who is responsible. The problem is having enough evidence (probable cause) to arrest the person and charge that person with the crimes committed.

There was a serial killer operating in Honolulu, Hawaii a long time ago. Police had a strong suspect and he worked in the area where the bodies were found. He also drove a vehicle similar to the one seen by witnesses. The guy skipped town and the murders stopped.

 

[Bemused]

Trespassing where? To RL's lower property, by the creek, is difficult at most to get to by viewing the overhead views and land views. Even Gray's videos has them crossing the creek to get there. It's not an easy thing to do. IMO

It seems even more risky and difficult to navigate unless they'd been there before, given the issues everyone has brought up. I just wondered if trespassing has been a problem for the property owners around there.

 

[GhostGhost]

Trespassing? It is a distance from RL home, but unless he has laser beams and pressure pads or armed guards, how would he or neighbors know unless caught in the act or found trash, etc?

Motion activated Trail Cameras - and they are common.


-

 

[Cryptonite]

Scaling back on the number of officers dedicated to this case after 30 days is quite normal. The initial influx of help from all number of jurisdictions was to be able to quickly cover as much ground as possible. Now, the list of possible suspects has narrowed, all RSO's have been checked on, all recently released convicts have been scrutinized, all available surveillance cameras have been reviewed, evidence has been collected and delivered to laboratories, all cyber connections have been scrutinized, alibis checked and double checked, untold numbers interviewed, tips traced. The massive leg work is done. Not as many bodies are needed. Plus, these officers need to get back to their own backlog of unsolved crimes. Carroll County, ISP and Delphi PD can handle this now.

They were believed to be in no immediate danger,right just had to brave the elements ,that's what I recall at the onset of this,sorry just my rant.

 

[Bemused]

Tha last teen I can recall being murdered was around 1985 and took only a little time to solve.so what to make of the present comment about scaling down the investigation crew.

Was it a local or stranger?

 

[Yvettea]

Trespassing where? To RL's lower property, by the creek, is difficult at most to get to by viewing the overhead views and land views. Even Gray's videos has them crossing the creek to get there. It's not an easy thing to do. IMO

And yet, there they were found on RL's property. They didn't fly IMO.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't get the feeling that LE knows who did this at all. If RL comes back clean, it's back to starting point, more or less. Except that hopefully they have eliminated "the usual suspects". But this guy might not be on anyone's radar.

 

[Cryptonite]

There are lots of useful reference links at the beginning of this (and every) thread, but I found this to be on of the most handy:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...the-two-bodies-were-found-near-delphi-indiana

It has a link to an active google map, and scrolling down below that, about 30 minutes of aerial footage taken the day of the search. If you are having trouble visualizing the lay of the land, or the scale and distances of this case, this one link can be very handy.

"Right click" on the google map, and "open it in a new tab." You can now zoom in and out on the map, and drag and drop it to zoom in on different areas. Then, going back to the original tab (the news story), watch the video. As you do, there are spots when it stops or goes black- don't close the window, as it will start playing again (and I don't know if this was an issue in the actual chopper footage, or just my internet connection buffering.)

So, while you're watching the video, you can switch back and forth to the google map and really get your bearings. The video was taken at midday during the height of the search, so there is good lighting, they repeatedly circle and zooming and out on the entire area, and if you look at the roads and landmarks (cemetery, creek) you should really start to be able to overlay the labelled map with what you're seeing from the air. And you can also see the type and density of vegetation, height and scale of Mono High Bridge, and steepness of the hills.

I hope these comments are helpful to someone. Apologies if I've over-simplified it, sound redundant, or everybody's already seen this, but I know different folks have different gifts (or not) for map-reading and orienting themselves. Just trying to help. jmo

But the ravines of the area are not as defined from the air footage

 

[Cryptonite]

Was it a local or stranger?

That gent was lcoal and serving time

 

[cobalt sky]

It seems even more risky and difficult to navigate unless they'd been there before, given the issues everyone has brought up. I just wondered if trespassing has been a problem for the property owners around there.

There have been trespassing issues in the area, including Mr. Logan's property, which he reported to LE in the past.

 

[Patriot10]

Check out the various maps and descriptions of the area in the media and maps thread. The bridge area is not remote at all--surrounded by houses and businesses and roads--and it is frequented by visitors, though not CROWDED.


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I meant the crime scene where the girls were found. That area looks to be very remote and far, far away from any sort of help.

 

[Beth11311]

I'm curious as well. The only explanation I've heard for this theory is they're waiting for a DNA match.

However, during the last press release, the officer that spoke said he wanted to address the rumors that were circulating online that they knew who the perp was. And he made it very clear that he wanted everyone to know that is not true, he said it more than once...

I'm starting to wonder if they have any DNA at all. Feeling discouraged, to be honest.
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I'm honestly a bit relieved I'm not the only one who doesn't follow...and I also am surprised that's there hasn't been more movement considering how much LE has to work with (imagine if Libby hadn't recorded what she did?!). Hopeful they're just building their case carefully but I'm nervous considering LE knows everyone wants an arrest and I don't know that I can see them sitting on it if they knew. Hmmmmm

 

[Patriot10]

Thank you for your firsthand info. I guess the difference of opinion being expressed has to do with how one understand "remote". The poster I was responding to initially had indicated a place so remote no one would be coming through and victims would have no hope of getting out of. That sounded to me like something miles away from civilization, not just a rugged, undeveloped area.


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For a victim bleeding out and dying, that area might as well be miles away from any help. That's the spot that I think a killer would take someone (just looking at the map and not having ever been there myself) to commit the crime. The water would be a bonus because he could wash up after.

This guy is physically fit. He knows the area, he is comfortable being outdoors for long periods of time and is calm and cool (judging from the voice) which suggests an older, more experienced individual. He's been around the block, so to speak. The long hike from the bridge to the actual spot where the girls were found served many purposes maybe--- one, it took the victims to a secluded and most likely deserted area far from help. Two, it made the girls physically tired and weak as they were likely not accustomed to walking for any long distances in that type of weather/rugged terrain. The killer held all of the cards.

 

[cloudajo]

After Nin posted the images of BG again on the last thread...I was watching this other video again about what Libby's grandfather said (excerpts below). Just pondering again if BG came in from the south, walked past the girls on the bridge, saw nobody coming down the bridge from the north, then doubled back toward the girls.

Thur, Mar 9 Mike Patty speaks to the media: ‘…Obviously, she's a smart girl. She really was. But we talk a lot about being, having the presence of mind of your surroundings…’ ‘…obviously she had presence of mind, sensed something a little strange there, and I’m glad she did. Very glad.’ (Ref, ~16:00)