IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #40

[liltexans]

Wow- thanks.

ETA- why the SW then? Trying to understand.

I think LE is trying to follow proper procedure in this case so that everything will have been done by the book if and when someone is arrested and charged with this hideous crime.

We don't know what their probable cause was for the SW, so we can really only speculate based on the very little we do know, but we do know the SW was related to the murder investigation.

 

[Suglo]

Then why is the warrant sealed?

Because the whole case is sealed. They're not going to make some of it public and the other part sealed. It's all or nothing. IMO.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I very much disagree. I do not think a judge would have signed off on a probable cause search warrant for RL's entire property because a bunch of people on lap tops called in tips. Novelist, here on websleuths had a tip called in on him and received at call from ISP, but I don't believe they exercised a search warrant of his property, JMO.

Interesting......I wasn't aware of the tip/call mentioned in your post. Was that discussed on a previous thread? TIA



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[Chrystina]

That trail is the size of the town. It's a beautiful area, great for pics anytime of year. There's swinging bridges over the river in the town park. I think they all connect eventually. Trails along old railroads have kinda become a trail system in Indiana. Most small towns the kids can be found at them. Its a place where a town of people still look out for all kids.


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[TheOtherChristina]

:dunno: ... don't know. I keep saying it's odd that they would do that with the press in tow, etc. Any judge would sign off on a probation violator (march 10th arrest) and one who gave up his rights anyway. Puzzlement to me. IMO

My understanding is that the 4th waiver allows for warrantless searches but doesn't have anything to do with PC. Is that incorrect?

 

[kc1023]

Do we even know where RL is? Wasn't it yesterday or the day before that all we could find was that he was at an unknown facility or something like that?

 

[tokyorose]

But he doesn't have to give permission to LE because he waived his 4th amendment rights. We know they searched because they found the girls.

I'm talking specifically about the evening of 2/13 when he returned from Lafayette, not the next morning when they resumed the search. And whether they needed to or not, they did ask. Do we know if it was LE that asked him on 2/13? If not then searchers would not be aware of the legalities regarding his probation and rights to search and seizure. I think it's pretty relevant to the case if he refused to have his property searched on the evening of 2/13.

 

[Bemused]

Maybe he gave his permission the next day/morning? Do we know what time he returned from his errands on 2/14? I'm not so sure I agree that he must have given his permission. I ask because I thought we recently discussed here that his property was not searched that night, only the bridge and the public trails.. The sun had already set when they asked permission to search his property at 6:30pm.

It's the 14th I find suspicious and I've already said why. Why would someone leave while a search was in progress on their land and those girls had been missing more than 12 hours. Listen to the words he chooses when he talks about it. It being the girls being found before he returned home. MOO

 

[Beer]

No prep arrested today???

Anyone with cliff notes on the day?

Discussion about dna and urine and a ramping up about talking about taking about RL for the next few days.

 

[liltexans]

Do we even know where RL is? Wasn't it yesterday or the day before that all we could find was that he was at an unknown facility or something like that?

I think he's back in the Carroll County jail, per LE, but I don't have the link handy right now where LE said that.

 

[tokyorose]

Interesting......I wasn't aware of the tip/call mentioned in your post. Was that discussed on a previous thread? TIA



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This thread, unless it's been deleted.

 

[Bemused]

RL gave up his right to the 4th amendment. He has NO rights there. Any judge would grant that. IMO

Evidence in a double murder is not any small thing. I expect there is a legal reason they wanted to make sure anything found was not tossed out on a technicality. IANAL

 

[expatCanada]

We don't know why he went into Delphi that morning. Dr appt, see his probation officer, bank, etc. Do people think he should have helped search? Or what? Just curious.

Exactly.

 

[liltexans]

That trail is the size of the town. It's a beautiful area, great for pics anytime of year. There's swinging bridges over the river in the town park. I think they all connect eventually. Trails along old railroads have kinda become a trail system in Indiana. Most small towns the kids can be found at them. Its a place where a town of people still look out for all kids.


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It looks beautiful in all the videos and I have read so many heartwarming stories about the people and businesses in and around Delphi since the murders occurred. I feel so awful for the people in that little town to have this horrid person commit such a heinous crime in their previously peaceful town. I can never get over how many victims a crime like this creates beyond the direct victims. That whole town is traumatized.

 

[tokyorose]

It's the 14th I find suspicious and I've already said why. Why would someone leave while a search was in progress on their land and those girls had been missing more than 12 hours. Listen to the words he chooses when he talks about it. It being the girls being found before he returned home. MOO

I find both 2/13 and 2/14 behavior suspicious. If you knew something criminal happened on your land on the afternoon of 2/13 then you very well might refuse a search until morning so you could have a look around and see what to do about it.

 

[ninij9]

So, what happens if, in the next few weeks, LE comes out and clears RL of any involvement? Do the mods go back and delete all the posts containing baseless speculation about him? I'm genuinely curious. It seems to me if this kind of speculation is allowed (i.e., double murder, or at least aiding and abetting a murderer), even though he has not been named a POI, then something should be done to make amends, if and when he is cleared. Wouldn't that be the right thing to do?

Do you also suggest LE should make amends for serving a search warrant on him for probable cause directly relating to the murders? Because that's the only reason we are allowed to sleuth him in the first place.

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[elmomom]

RL gave up his right to the 4th amendment. He has NO rights there. Any judge would grant that. IMO

I don't agree. Imho, calling it a warrant with probable cause means exactly that, there is probable cause, not just that he has ambiguous rights due to his probation. And in order to present any evidence in a trial, LE would definitely secure a proabable cause warrant to search to eliminate any defense strategy to prevent the evidence from being presented in court.

 

[whiskers]

Do we even know if RL knew the search was still continuing on the morning of 2/14? Small town farmers and landowners are known to go into town for breakfast and coffee. My grandfather met his buddies in town *daily* for their morning cofee and chatter.

As another posted noted, at this time the girls were known only as missing and possibly runaways. We have no idea what he saw when he left on the morning of 2/14. They weren't found into later. Maybe no one around his home was searching at that time and he didn't feel it was a big deal to go into town.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Then why is the warrant sealed?

To protect the integrity of the case. It's common for SW's to be sealed in ongoing and unsolved investigations. JMO


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[Bemused]

I would be very curious to know if RL gave permission for his property to be searched on the evening of 2/13..all I can find is that he was asked, not that he gave permission. I believe his property was not searched that night and the reasoning was because it was dark and difficult ( a logical reason given the terrain) but it was past sunset on 2/13 when he was asked and getting dark, so why ask and then not search there?

Refusing would look pretty darn suspicious if two girls are just presumed missing,