IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Bemused]

Right I just think it is TMI. I've read that is what can happen during a lie - too much information is given. MOO

That was what sent up red flags for me was the many media interviews and the amount of detail. I'm sure LE has watched and rewatched interviews by everyone who talked to TV reporters. You can certainly tell a lot from what people say and how they say it, IMO.

 

[shrimplegs99]

This is the text I meant to reply to. Sorry I messed up the quotes.

 

[KyMom]

JMO - My guess would be there's cameras either in or somewhere around whatever fish/pet place he said he went to and LE probably already knows whether or not he was buying fish.

moo

 

[shrimplegs99]

Messed up again! 😱

 

[Jax49]

Right I just think it is TMI. I've read that is what can happen during a lie - too much information is given. MOO

Sometimes that is true. But also keep in mind older people can be known for talking your ears off. We've all had that uncle or aunt who told you way more than you ever wanted to know. Or the relative who tells you the same stories, over and over again. Seems a lot of that comes from being lonely. moo

 

[KyMom]

Sometimes that is true. But also keep in mind older people can be known for talking your ears off. We've all had that uncle or aunt who told you way more than you ever wanted to know. Or the relative who tells you the same stories, over and over again. Seems a lot of that comes from being lonely. moo

O/T a bit, but this reminds me of my grandpa, you could be a total stranger and he would've started telling you his life story, about all his aches and pains, or about what's going on with the neighbors as if you knew who he was talking about, lol. My mom's a bit like that too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is something I keep coming back to. Some say it sounds like a calm command and hear "get" or "godown" etc. I keep wondering if this was a I lost my "dog" or other situation I saw him run someone asks where and BG says right down there get down the hill. To me some situation of this nature wouldn't even require control for a certain amount of time. To me, it would explain that if BG was 70-80 feet away from the bridge end. That they possibly waited for BG took a vid... Didn't suspect too much at the time. Not saying I believe this. I have no clue tbh. I just can't wrap my head around it. All IMO and speculations.

At the word "hill" BG raises his voice a little, he speaks with emphasis, it is a command. IMO I suspect he immediately afterwards continued and gave further orders as "immediately!" or "fast" or "go now" or a whole sentence. We do not know more of the audio because we should not know any more, and probably because the voice of at least one girl was to be heard.
My theory: he actually pushed one girl off the bridge and his command was for the other. I wonder, however, where he hid the at least severely injured girl until he could bring both girls to RL's plot. He had to assume that with a thermal imaging camera from the air could be searched for the girls. But maybe he was far enough away with the second girl and he did not care if the first one were found earlier? Perhaps he came back only because he realized that the search had been canceled?
Later he could have found RL's waders and boots (don't know if he owns an angler outfit?) in a barn / shed and used the clothing to pull the girls early in the morning, at night, across to the other bank. If he had an accomplice with car, the utensils may have been in the car, maybe his own clothing. The place to hide the girls was the best he knew if it was already searched and because it was a private place where RL perhaps didn't walk day by day.
I wonder: how did BG know in the dark so exactly where RL's border of property is going??? With user Otto's map, it looks as if the CS is directly besides the borderline. A few feet further and it would have been another property (it seems).

These are my thoughts I can remember I had when not able to answer posts (closed thread always). Sorry, if I didn't explain it well and if I forgot half of my thoughts.

 

[jillycat]

I know that some feel the girls may have been up off the ground; in reviewing this particular video you can clearly see the crime tape surrounding the crime scene. Do you suppose there would be evidence markers or some other indication within the trees, if in fact, the girls were located in one of them versus on the ground?

I realize there are visual limitations as there is not full video of the entire crime area, but the question did pop into my mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've seen some good close-ups of the taped off area and there's nothing remarkable about any of the area and no sign of markers anywhere. The area also seems relatively small.

I don't think the girls were found literally off the ground, but there was another case in a wooded area where a searcher said he had walked right by the victim previously and didn't see him because he was looking down at the ground and the victim was upright against a tree.

I don't think this would have even come up had there not been discussion about how searchers missed them on the first search despite supposedly walking across that very area. But that also led to speculation about them having been killed elsewhere and moved to that area later. I don't think the latter makes any sense.

 

[shrimplegs99]

Because maybe he has friends and family in Lafayette he was visiting? And maybe he really did buy a fish for someone. He never said he bought the fish for himself. Maybe it was a gift for someone.

O/T a bit, but this reminds me of my grandpa, you could be a total stranger and he would've started telling you his life story, about all his aches and pains, or about what's going on with the neighbors as if you knew who he was talking about, lol. My mom's a bit like that too.

Never ever ask about a meal. 😜 They will tell u every detail plus how it was cooked

 

[cluciano63]

Telling police he was buying tropical fish is not too much info, it is specific. Probably easy to verify in a small area, how many tropical fish stores can there be? He could have been vague, said he was doing errands, etc, but he told them where he why he went to Lafayette, imo. Police do not want vague alibis, they want details.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I believe it would be to risky to murder one child take another and then bring one back later and kill that one and leave body at the same place on the same night when search parties were out looking for the girls.... BG is not an idiot...

Sorry but I don't believe it happened that way. He killed one child. Then did what he wanted to the other maybe. Then thought he killed that one and left maybe leaving in a hurry. I have been hearing stories that one child was still warm when found. So evidently had died later.

Moo said the cow...

What about the suggestion that a volunteer searcher followed footprints and found the bodies quite quickly? Why is the cemetery area important (assuming it is of course). I don't think there is any significance it was RL land as it appears it was close to the property line so seems to have been chance. JMO.

 

[Wsimm]

Never ever ask about a meal.  They will tell u every detail plus how it was cooked

LOL......followed by the indigestion and upset stomach after.

 

[shrimplegs99]

I'm not surprised he gave detail to the police, but it's a little bit more than needed for the reporter

 

[Jo in Calif]

Telling police he was buying tropical fish is not too much info, it is specific. Probably easy to verify in a small area, how many tropical fish stores can there be? He could have been vague, said he was doing errands, etc, but he told them where he why he went to Lafayette, imo. Police do not want vague alibis, they want details.

We really have no idea what he told police.

 

[NightOwl77]

Occam's Razor - the most obvious solution, regardless of how improbably that may be, is usually the correct solution. The girls were abducted at the SE end of the bridge. They were told to go down the hill. Their bodies were found pretty much straight North across the river. A short walk North of the bodies is the cemetery. There was a huge police presence at the cemetery, meaning that location is significant.

I don't see any reason to introduce a theory that the girls were driven to some other location, murdered, driven back to the area where they were abducted (an area that would be swarming with searchers and police), and then dragged, one by one, to the river.

Or the police presence was greatest at the cemetary because it is the easiest access into the CS w/out being on Logan's property. It would make sense they wouldn't want to cross the stream themselves to investigate initially (other than the equally significant investigation that took place in and around the stream which means it was important itself -- why? washing away of evidence? clothes if SA took place etc?). I'm not sure I see that as substantiation for the main reason police staged there (that the crime was somehow connected to the cemetary). For such a risky crime (two girls, brought daylight, most kids have cell phones these days -- pretty much a given etc, discovery by people in area could be imminent at any time) it appears the motive would have been SA, and not just a one off where someone marches 2 girls across stream kills and leaves. Doesn't seem likely killer would put themselves in that much harm's way unless he knew them or had a significant reason ie SA, which w two and crossing stream takes time. Car at end of trail makes more sense to me. JMO in exploring angle presented here about cemetary. Is there anything else that make you think cemetary is significant?

 

[otto]

At the word "hill" BG raises his voice a little, he speaks with emphasis, it is a command. IMO I suspect he immediately afterwards continued and gave further orders as "immediately!" or "fast" or "go now" or a whole sentence. We do not know more of the audio because we should not know any more, and probably because the voice of at least one girl was to be heard.
My theory: he actually pushed one girl off the bridge and his command was for the other. I wonder, however, where he hid the at least severely injured girl until he could bring both girls to RL's plot. He had to assume that with a thermal imaging camera from the air could be searched for the girls. But maybe he was far enough away with the second girl and he did not care if the first one were found earlier? Perhaps he came back only because he realized that the search had been canceled?
Later he could have found RL's waders and boots (don't know if he owns an angler outfit?) in a barn / shed and used the clothing to pull the girls early in the morning, at night, across to the other bank. If he had an accomplice with car, the utensils may have been in the ca, maybe his own clothing.
I wonder: how did he know in the dark so exactly where RL's border of property is going? With user Otto's map, it looks as if the CS is directly besides the borderline.

These are my thoughts I can remember I had when not able to answer posts (closed thread always). Sorry, if I didn't explain it well.

The suspect had two options to get the girls to a location where he would assault (presumably) and murder them. He could force them to walk to that location, or he could injure one or both during the abduction. Injuring one or both would make it much more difficult to get the girls to the murder location. It makes more sense to me that he walked them to where they were murdered. That would also ensure maximum cooperation because up until the time that one was injured, they could both believe that they would live through what was happening to them.

I don't think he had any idea whose property he was on - he might have assumed that the land was connected to the cemetery. I also think that the girls had been murdered by the time searches began at 5:30, so it was before sunset. Abducted children are usually murdered within two hours of abduction. If the abduction was at approximately 2:10-2:20, he had three hours before the search started.

 

[JLSChook]

It's called extraneous information. (Usually studied from 911 calls of a potentially guilty party)

Example:

911: 911, what's the nature of your emergency?

POI: Ummm...yeah...I just got home from work after stopping by the grocery store to buy milk, and my wife is laying on the floor with blood all around her.

911: Okay sir, is she breathing?

POI: No!! I think she's dead. I found her like this after I got home from work and stopped at the grocery store for milk. She was in an accident 2 weeks ago and she couldn't go to the grocery store herself.

So, I just made that up...but that's the kind of extraneous information that is not usual for someone wanting to help a loved one. They don't care about being nice or establishing where THEY have been...the only thing on their mind is getting help--NOW.

RL's situation is different. These 2 murdered girls were found on his property and of course he is going to be detailed about where he was that day. I'm sure if he was vague, he'd be getting the same treatment from those who want to string this guy up...just because.

The dude can't win.

 

[Steleheart]

He went to the ts at 11:58 we know that had nothing to do with the girls.
He told a reporter that he went to Lafayette to buy tropical fish, when all that was going down.
We have no idea what time he went to buy the fish or what time he told LE he went to buy the fish. If he told them he was gone off his property between 2:00 and 2:30 and didn't return home until 6:30 and that checked out he could pretty much be ruled out. Why would LE want a pcsw? All this is IMO.

BBM
Where does 11:589 come from? I missed it somewhere. Could I have the link you got it from please? Tx

"Prosecutors did not reveal the time of day Logan went to that dump. Residents can drop trash and recyclables there."
http://abc7chicago.com/news/land-ow...-found-jailed-for-traffic-violations/1833996/

"Investigators told FOX59 that Logan’s unauthorized road trip on February 13, the day Liberty Germany and Abigail Williams disappeared, happened hours before the two girls were dropped off at a hiking trail east of town."
http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/

 

[otto]

Or the police presence was greatest at the cemetary because it is the easiest access into the CS w/out being on Logan's property. It would make sense they wouldn't want to cross the stream themselves to investigate initially (other than the equally significant investigation that took place in and around the stream which means it was important itself -- why? washing away of evidence? clothes if SA took place etc?). I'm not sure I see that as substantiation for the main reason police staged there (that the crime was somehow connected to the cemetary). For such a risky crime (two girls, brought daylight, most kids have cell phones these days -- pretty much a given etc, discovery by people in area could be imminent at any time) it appears the motive would have been SA, and not just a one off where someone marches 2 girls across stream kills and leaves. Doesn't seem likely killer would put themselves in that much harm's way unless he knew them or had a significant reason ie SA, which w two and crossing stream takes time. Car at end of trail makes more sense to me. JMO in exploring angle presented here about cemetary. Is there anything else that make you think cemetary is significant?

I think that the suspect has done something like this before, and I think that he would commit murder close to his vehicle so he could quickly leave the area. I do not think that he would risk walking across the bridge to where the girls were dropped off as he would know that someone might be looking for the girls, and that someone might see him. The reason I believe that he parked at the cemetery is because it is the closest public place to park near the location where the children were murdered.

 

[Shiressleuth]

JMO - My guess would be there's cameras either in or somewhere around whatever fish/pet place he said he went to and LE probably already knows whether or not he was buying fish.

moo

He may have a receipt or card payment and he may have been driven by someone who has confirmed it. It would have been one of the first things LE did. Even we all know he wasn't back home till 06.30 when a volunteer called to ask permission for the search the next day. If he was the perp wouldn't he have moved the girls off his land before the next days search?