IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

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BBM
Where does 11:589 come from? I missed it somewhere. Could I have the link you got it from please? Tx

"Prosecutors did not reveal the time of day Logan went to that dump. Residents can drop trash and recyclables there."
http://abc7chicago.com/news/land-ow...-found-jailed-for-traffic-violations/1833996/

"Investigators told FOX59 that Logan’s unauthorized road trip on February 13, the day Liberty Germany and Abigail Williams disappeared, happened hours before the two girls were dropped off at a hiking trail east of town."
http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/

Sorry, don't know where it is right now. But I bet Bemused can pull it up. Believe it was a photo of an affidavit to the pv.
ETA or Jax49
 
He may have a receipt or card payment and he may have been driven by someone who has confirmed it. It would have been one of the first things LE did. Even we all know he wasn't back home till 06.30 when a volunteer called to ask permission for the search the next day. If he was the perp wouldn't he have moved the girls off his land before the next days search?

If I were panicked and had basically 300 lbs of dead weight to move alone, comprised of two bodies, what would I do with them? I would probably try to destroy as much evidence as I could think of in a panic, attempt to cover the bodies, and get somewhere to establish an alibi. IMO
 
I'm not surprised he gave detail to the police, but it's a little bit more than needed for the reporter

Agreed....You'd expect the property owner to be very specific with LE, but the need for all these detailed interviews? I'd expect RL to relay his condolences for the family of the girls through the LE. I'd even understand him offering a statement to LE to offer to the media, but all these interviews? I will play devils advocate and say maybe he was just a lonely old man who viewed these interviews as a outlet for attention and a supply of conversation he hadn't had in years? I'm curious if RL discussed giving interviews with his attorney beforehand?
 
I know I keep saying that I am a neophyte here. But this is because still have a lot of fundamental/basic questions.




For a while, the thought has been postulated that perhaps BG met one of the girls via SM. He might have posed as a young teenager. One of the girls might have expressed interested in him, and reached out to meet up with him in the park that day.


But this theory has no legs, right?


Because what I've learned from many of you, is that even if Libby's cell phone didn't exist, the text between the girls and BG would've been found by this point. Emails would've been found between them at this point. And then we would know who BG was. So, since the case seems to be sort of stalled at this point, and I mean it's not really stalled it's just that we're not finding out anything right now because LE is keeping their cards to their chests, then we can assume this entire ordeal was a random act?

Maybe it was someone who disguised themselves enough to interact online just for entry as a "friend" w fake name just to keep track of where they were? Or conversations that would indicate their interests or where they might be so no actual texts even needed to take place?
 
Watch the video again

[video=youtube;TT7NoIJr5zE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT7NoIJr5zE[/video]
 
What about the suggestion that a volunteer searcher followed footprints and found the bodies quite quickly? Why is the cemetery area important (assuming it is of course). I don't think there is any significance it was RL land as it appears it was close to the property line so seems to have been chance. JMO.

Is there anyone that favors a theory that BG was already on the far end of the bridge, passed by the girls then turned around quickly once he could see there was no one approaching as far as he could see? Then accuses them of trespassing and says I'm going to take you off the property 'get down the hill' and into my car that's parked below on the driveway.
Moving the girls very far would require their (forced) cooperation. it's either that or things happened really really quickly and required getting across the creek which I don't find that plausible.
What would be great is to have someone that has been questioned come forward and relate what the exactly the LE were asking. Say they were asking to see the inside of ppl's houses or something specific, would be a tell that the girls were moved likely twice.
All IMOO thank you for your thoughtful posts
 
I've seen some good close-ups of the taped off area and there's nothing remarkable about any of the area and no sign of markers anywhere. The area also seems relatively small.

I don't think the girls were found literally off the ground, but there was another case in a wooded area where a searcher said he had walked right by the victim previously and didn't see him because he was looking down at the ground and the victim was upright against a tree.

I don't think this would have even come up had there not been discussion about how searchers missed them on the first search despite supposedly walking across that very area. But that also led to speculation about them having been killed elsewhere and moved to that area later. I don't think the latter makes any sense.
If that is true about the searchers having previously walked across that area , wouldn't that explain the supposed footprints the next day that led the volunteer/neighbour to the scene so quickly? Strange that. JMOO.
 
The suspect had two options to get the girls to a location where he would assault (presumably) and murder them. He could force them to walk to that location, or he could injure one or both during the abduction. Injuring one or both would make it much more difficult to get the girls to the murder location. It makes more sense to me that he walked them to where they were murdered. That would also ensure maximum cooperation because up until the time that one was injured, they could both believe that they would live through what was happening to them.

I don't think he had any idea whose property he was on - he might have assumed that the land was connected to the cemetery. I also think that the girls had been murdered by the time searches began at 5:30, so it was before sunset. Abducted children are usually murdered within two hours of abduction. If the abduction was at approximately 2:10-2:20, he had three hours before the search started.

attachment.php

Respectfully your time line IMO is a bit off. I believe the photo of BG was taken at 2:30 pm. It has been speculated that it took as long as 30 minutes to walk the girls from the bridge to where they were found. Now it's 3:00 pm. It has been stated that their ride was there to pick them up and actively searching the area and calling for them by 4:00pm. That left only one hour to murder both girls and get out of dodge. LE wasn't called in to search until 5:30 pm, but family had already been searching for an hour and a half by that point.
 
I think LE knows who BG is. As some others have pointed out, it has been a while since public statements asking for identification of the man in the photos. Instead, all I've seen (and I have not seen everything) is more general, "keep the tips coming," kinds of statements. In addition, the disappearance of most billboard notices, etc. Whoever BG turns out being, identifying him is not enough to get a conviction for murder. LE has stated the voice recording may not be him, which means that a positive ID cannot be made with BG and the voice. Although the voice recording may have something disturbing on it, we are not privy to what that is, and it may not be enough to establish murder either. In my view, LE is searching for more evidence. They need to tie BG to something more. If nothing else is found on RL's property, car or home to implicate either him or someone else who was on his property, or in his car or home, then IMO the police will be back to square one. I do wonder if evidence was discovered in the bin across the road or in the vicinity of RL's car parked there. I am also apparently the only one interested in the movements of RL's car either around the time of the murders or in general. Was his car ever at or near the other areas that were searched? Did other people usually drive him around in his car? Was that permitted under his probation? Just my own interest because I've looked at the property and the photos so many times that I'm just trying to think of other things to consider. Was his car ever returned? Where is it now? MOO

You are not the only one still interested in RL's movements that day. I am wondering, if he frequently - or at all - took that shortcut from the cemetery to the NW end of the bridge to then hit the trail over to Old Camden Road, then downtown to do possibly get to the local L store on W Main/ S Market? It is only app 2.5 miles one way. Not saying he did, just considering it.

If he went towards the trail on February 13, did he possibly saw something or someone? I am not necessarily thinking of the girls but of the perp.

He may be directly involved into this in some way- disposing of evidence?- , or he may be covering for someone. There is simply no reason IMO for LE not to clear him, unless they can't or won't. I am waiting fore this to happen in a PC, or for additional charges to be filed, or for additional arrest(s). Until then, everyone is included in the envelope of suspicion (..) , including RL.

All IMO

-Nin
 
He may have a receipt or card payment and he may have been driven by someone who has confirmed it. It would have been one of the first things LE did. Even we all know he wasn't back home till 06.30 when a volunteer called to ask permission for the search the next day. If he was the perp wouldn't he have moved the girls off his land before the next days search?

One would think it would be one of the first things LE did, but then again one would also think search warrants for the property where the bodies were found would have been issued immediately, and we see how long that took.
 
BBM
Where does 11:589 come from? I missed it somewhere. Could I have the link you got it from please? Tx

"Prosecutors did not reveal the time of day Logan went to that dump. Residents can drop trash and recyclables there."
http://abc7chicago.com/news/land-ow...-found-jailed-for-traffic-violations/1833996/

"Investigators told FOX59 that Logan’s unauthorized road trip on February 13, the day Liberty Germany and Abigail Williams disappeared, happened hours before the two girls were dropped off at a hiking trail east of town."
http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/

One of our nice posters found the time:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwNVlCNEZKelBWUEU/view

This is the online copy of the Herald Journal April 4.
 
BBM
Where does 11:589 come from? I missed it somewhere. Could I have the link you got it from please? Tx

"Prosecutors did not reveal the time of day Logan went to that dump. Residents can drop trash and recyclables there."
http://abc7chicago.com/news/land-ow...-found-jailed-for-traffic-violations/1833996/

"Investigators told FOX59 that Logan’s unauthorized road trip on February 13, the day Liberty Germany and Abigail Williams disappeared, happened hours before the two girls were dropped off at a hiking trail east of town."
http://fox59.com/2017/04/03/man-adm...hi-teens-were-found-murdered-on-his-property/

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwNVlCNEZKelBWUEU/view?usp=sharing

-Nin
 
Watch the video again

[video=youtube;TT7NoIJr5zE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT7NoIJr5zE[/video]
Seen this many times and something just caught my attention. LE stated they either want to eliminate RL or place him as a "higher" suspect! Was he a slight or moderate suspect before the search warrant?
 
If that is true about the searchers having previously walked across that area , wouldn't that explain the supposed footprints the next day that led the volunteer/neighbour to the scene so quickly? Strange that. JMOO.

I honestly don't have enough of a handle on where the searchers actually were initially and what ground they covered to speculate. And I've never understood the footprints issue. Unless the girls flew, I don't see how a single set of footprints led to the bodies.
 
But why bring her back? moo

To make someone else look guilty? (RL, not him specifically but just anyone else -- indicates local if knew property)
Anger at LE and is in see what I can do so easily, or to take pride in kill (indicates repeat offender, also possible local)
Some personal connection w victims or family (left in some sort of twisted respect also possible local)

I didn't realize Libby was over 150 pds. That really makes me think if car and SA and move took place, two people were involved. Really makes it complex and two people could use each other as alibis.

I'm starting to wonder if the person/s will ever be caught. Sucks.

Also wonder if a search downstream was done.... I imagine it would have been...
 
Is there anyone that favors a theory that BG was already on the far end of the bridge, passed by the girls then turned around quickly once he could see there was no one approaching as far as he could see? Then accuses them of trespassing and says I'm going to take you off the property 'get down the hill' and into my car that's parked below on the driveway.
Moving the girls very far would require their (forced) cooperation. it's either that or things happened really really quickly and required getting across the creek which I don't find that plausible.
What would be great is to have someone that has been questioned come forward and relate what the exactly the LE were asking. Say they were asking to see the inside of ppl's houses or something specific, would be a tell that the girls were moved likely twice.
All IMOO thank you for your thoughtful posts

Someone did. He's a white guy maybe 40 wearing a rainbow or striped in large blocks of different color jacket with some kind of logo on it. He says what the police asked him and asked to look through his phone. I'll see if I can find it again.
 
One of our nice posters found the time:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwNVlCNEZKelBWUEU/view

This is the online copy of the Herald Journal April 4.

I think it would be interesting to know if this is how RL usually gets rid of his trash or if it was outside of his routine. I know when my dad was in his 70's he would bring his trash to the dump himself and he always did it on a Friday, every week at the same time. I wonder if that is what RL did, obviously a parole violation but in no way connected to the murders. JMO
 
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