IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Burnt Toast]

I'm confused. Who was home by 3:30?

in my opinion the person responsible was likely home by 3:30.

 

[cloudajo]

I created a timeline with reference links to keep track of some of the information. Just sharing in case it's useful. It's 6 pages in .pdf format.

I can also post it in the media thread.

 

[Jax49]

it is funny how we all hear and see different things. I saw a man who showed little if any empathy for the girls or their families.

Nothing short of amazing how we humans interpret things differently. When I watch the interviews, I see a man deeply saddened and upset that such a disaster happened in his back yard. Concerned for the families and the community. moo

 

[Yvettea]

The suspect had two options to get the girls to a location where he would assault (presumably) and murder them. He could force them to walk to that location, or he could injure one or both during the abduction. Injuring one or both would make it much more difficult to get the girls to the murder location. It makes more sense to me that he walked them to where they were murdered. That would also ensure maximum cooperation because up until the time that one was injured, they could both believe that they would live through what was happening to them.

I don't think he had any idea whose property he was on - he might have assumed that the land was connected to the cemetery. I also think that the girls had been murdered by the time searches began at 5:30, so it was before sunset. Abducted children are usually murdered within two hours of abduction. If the abduction was at approximately 2:10-2:20, he had three hours before the search started.

Why is the body location moved so west from where it's been shown in the past?

 

[jillycat]

I know I have said it before, but LE may have stopped emphasizing the image due to its terrible quality. The only thing clear about it is that the killer probably will end up looking very different. Jmo

I also think they got all the mileage out of it they were going to get and people are so used to seeing it, it's no longer is compelling to the public. They either saw something initially or they didn't.

 

[Shiressleuth]

the soham murderer was more than willing to put himself in the spot light of the press after his double homicide. It is not that uncommon for a killer to involve themselves in the search or do interviews with the press.

Leaving your victims on your own property would certainly put oneself in the spotlight. Ian Huntley drove his dead victims 20 miles away and set fire to them then proceeded to help the investigation to avoid detection.

 

[Bus_face]

I agree with the first part of your theory, but not that he put the girls in a car on that dirt road. I think he spotted the girls when they were dropped off and knew he could access them at the south east end. I absolutely agree that he came up that end of the bridge, passed them, when he was 80 feet from them he turned around and approached them, IMO. That would be suspicious and worthy of Libby filming him.

I believe his mindset was that water would hinder DNA retrieval I have read that a reporter saw their clothes in the creek.
No one sees him because its very remote. He knows the roads....This is all IMO

Right on, also someone wouldhave likely saw him if he approached from behind. Gray Hughes might have to redo one of his videos. It makes no practical sense to come across the bridge that direction. His pants aren't wet in the pics, so that's why I think there's a vehicle stashed down there. He may have been shadowing them in his car as they went along idk. I'm in favor of the theory that they were taken away and then brought back and the Cel phone evidence wil support that. I'm a big Occam's razor guy and it seems like having a vehicle down below simplified things immensely for him in some aspects. If the attack was primarily a sexual motivation? Moving them to a shelter makes sense. Obvs this guy doesn't want to get caught but is definitely into taking risks to feed his mania. Claiming they were trespassing or otherwise coercing them down the hill and into a vehicle greatly enhances his chances of getting what he wanted. IMOO
Thanks for everyone's thoughtful posts

 

[MistyWaters]

What would be great is to have someone that has been questioned come forward and relate what the exactly the LE were asking. Say they were asking to see the inside of ppl's houses or something specific, would be a tell that the girls were moved likely twice.
All IMOO thank you for your thoughtful posts

The public shouldn't know of investigative strategies, especially while a crime remains unsolved.

And LE cannot just ask to see the insides of people's houses. Our homes are our private domaine and in the US (and Canada) thankfully we're not required to prove ourselves innocent. That LE are required to ask judges for things such as search warrants supported by reasons certainly makes investigation of a crime more difficult but it also preserves the rights of innocent parties. Otherwise just imagine how often tips could be used to maliciously harass, for example an ex-spouse.


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[otto]

I'm confused. Who was home by 3:30?

Exactly. We have an unidentified suspect who abducted two girls in a rural park at approximately 2:20 or 2:30PM. I don't think there's any way the man could be at his home an hour later.

 

[otto]

in my opinion the person responsible was likely home by 3:30.

How is that possible? Are you thinking that the girls were murdered immediately after they were abducted? If that's the case, why not murder them on the bridge?

 

[franci]

Yesterday someone commented about the reporters only reporting what LE feeds them. I also believe that not much real investigative reporting is/has been done. IMO a good investigative reporter could get the local opinion in Delphi by simply visiting the barber shops and hair salons, Also if I wanted to know what the local people know or think,I would simply go to the Sandwich Shop around noon and wonder out loud what is happening in the investigation.

Not sure how much of that could reach the public with regards to defamation laws etc.. could certainly get a general feel of the mood in Delphi but no specifics re name or identity of any local suspects would be allowed to be put out there. Have a feeling the investigation is being kept very close to the chest and will remain so. Noone wants to compromise this one..jmo

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Leaving your victims on your own property would certainly put oneself in the spotlight. Ian Huntley drove his dead victims 20 miles away and set fire to them then proceeded to help the investigation to avoid detection.

Right. If it turns out the property owner left them on his own property, it would perhaps point to a crime of impulse or even accident and cover up...rather than pre-meditated murder with a plan to dispose of the bodies like Huntley.

If the property had already been searched the night before, he or someone else might have hid them there to further dispose of them later.

Since LE has said he is not a suspect "at this time," I am just waiting to see if they make any announcements or arrest after any evidence is further processed.


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[jillycat]

Leaving your victims on your own property would certainly put oneself in the spotlight. Ian Huntley drove his dead victims 20 miles away and set fire to them then proceeded to help the investigation to avoid detection.

I don't see any comparison that can be made of RL to Huntley.

 

[sumzero]

Leaving your victims on your own property would certainly put oneself in the spotlight. Ian Huntley drove his dead victims 20 miles away and set fire to them then proceeded to help the investigation to avoid detection.

Well, there were an estimated 15,696 murders in the U.S. in 2015. How many times do you think the murderer tried to help with the investigation to avoid detection? One time every one thousand murderers? Probably not even that often. So, that means at least 99.9% of the time only innocent people were trying to help. IMO, there is no compelling reason not to place RL among the 99.9%.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think that murdering, and possibly assaulting, the girls took much more than an hour. It may have been less. If he was able to get them to a location that provided cover (maybe with a weapon) the crimes may have all been over within thirty minutes and he is on his way.

 

[otto]

Why is the body location moved so west from where it's been shown in the past?

The bodies were on private property, and I have been unable to find any accurate information about where they were found. I have read 0.5 to 0.75 miles from the bridge, but that is not possible because it is 0.5 miles from the bridge to the far East end of the private property.

Where would you place the body location?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Well, there were an estimated 15,696 murders in the U.S. in 2015. How many times do you think the murderer tried to help with the investigation to avoid detection? One time every one thousand murderers? Probably not even that often. So, that means at least 99.9% of the time only innocent people were trying to help. IMO, there is no compelling reason not to place RL among the 99.9%.

No disrespect, but I don't think it makes sense to pull a "1 out of 1000" estimate out of nowhere. I have encountered quite a few stories where the perp volunteered in search parties, willingly "helped" LE, or talked to media...often in an attempt to stay "in the know" about where the investigation was at. I have even heard of murderers purposefully disposing of the body in an area searchers had previously covered.


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[Yvettea]

The bodies were on private property, and I have been unable to find any accurate information about where they were found. I have read 0.5 to 0.75 miles from the bridge, but that is not possible because it is 0.5 miles from the bridge to the far East end of the private property.

Where would you place the body location?

I've accepted the placement we've previously been shown. Is there new information that changes the location from what is shown on previous maps?

 

[otto]

No disrespect, but I don't think it makes sense to pull a "1 out of 1000" estimate out of nowhere. I have encountered quite a few stories where the perp volunteered in search parties, willingly "helped" LE, or talked to media...often in an attempt to stay "in the know" about where the investigation was at. I have even heard of murderers purposefully disposing of the body in an area searchers had previously covered.


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There are also many stranger-abductions/murders where the suspect does not live near the abduction/murder location, and is long gone before anyone realizes that the victim is missing.

 

[Bemused]

I've accepted the placement we've previously been shown. Is there new information that changes the location from what is shown on previous maps?

Didn't someone match up that bent tree on the creek in relation to the crime scene?