IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Eileen730]

While that is not outside the realm of possibility, I think it much more likely that the girls were missed in the dark and the rather chaotic nature of newly organized searches for them. I think they were there, they were not seen the night of the initial searches (recall that those searches were called off that night because of the dangers involved - lack of visibility in a natural setting with creek, high bridge, ravines slopes and a million ways for a searcher to hurt himself). Next day, in daylight with more boots on the ground and permission for volunteers to search private property of RL, they were found.

It's was also a full moon. No leaves on trees.
I'd think they would be seen

 

[Aropizt]

I don't think he kept one alive ....I. think he left her for dead.

Agree completely. I will say too jumping off the idea they may have been hung- if it's true one girl died hours later and this left for dead scenario happened (which seems likely) I highly doubt they were hung then. I suppose there's some possibility of it being done wrong in some way to not kill immediately but just seems logical that should it be true one lived longer, hanging was probably out of the question.

I'm also of the mind actually that had they been hung they likely would've been easier to find during the search the night before, not harder. You don't hang someone too wildly high so I'd think if people were out searching with flashlights for living girls it's actually more likely to find someone who had been hung versus a body on the ground possibly covered or partially so in brush, but obviously MOO.


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[ocgrad]

I can understand some foot traffic on nice days over weekends but this was a weekday. Only a few ppl out there.

I've noticed in Libby's pictures as well as others on SM the bridge area looks pretty desolate. The trails are surely popular but I don't get the impression most people walk across the bridge. Its the end of the trail anyway so you know if you walk across you have to turn around and walk back. I wonder if the turn off the the nature trail is more popular and if those people who were on the trail that day took that instead of the bridge. I would be more interested in going down to the creek than across the bridge.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo I think one family chose Valentine's Day as the date of death...I believe both girls were deceased when found.

 

[lonetraveler]

I do agree though, I tend to try and find places like this for fishing and what we call creek stomping where I'm from ( walking in creeks for fun) just not in cold weather really. But even I get a feeling a creepy strangers is watching every time I go. Because you just never know. And it's sad we don't feel comfortable taking our kids to the places because this stuff is real and really happens. IMO it's a mess.

I agree with you. Something I would like to know is if there are any restroom facilities for this "park", "trail" or whatever? I haven't read anything addressing this. IMO, if there aren't any toilet facilities then the girls would have had to go into the woods out of view of any people around. They were suppose to have been there for a long period of time, surely, they would have had to go to pee.

 

[Eileen730]

I've noticed in Libby's pictures as well as others on SM the bridge area looks pretty desolate. The trails are surely popular but I don't get the impression most people walk across the bridge. Its the end of the trail anyway so you know if you walk across you have to turn around and walk back. I wonder if the turn off the the nature trail is more popular and if those people who were on the trail that day took that instead of the bridge. I would be more interested in going down to the creek than across the bridge.

I honestly don't think there were that many ppl out there. These.two little girls and very bad man.

 

[scandinavian girl]

A bit off topic we had an attack in Stockholm that might be a terroristattack 3 dead and 8 injured, they just showed a pic of a suspect they are looking for, he looks like BG, hood, big nose and beard. That leads me to think that this oversized nose might be something photographic and not really that huge in real life.

 

[Justice101]

following intently.....

 

[Wsimm]

Jmo I think one family chose Valentine's Day as the date of death...I believe both girls were deceased when found.

Could be? That's a very interesting thought!

 

[Justice101]

IMO he knew the other side of the creek was private property and he had less chance of someone happening upon them. Even though the trees weren't in full foliage, it was a lot less sparse than I'd have expected when we see reporters walk through that portion of RL's property.

Yes, but I am an outdoorsman myself and I wouldn't cross a creek in the winter if I could avoid it. It's knee deep and shifting sands and smooth rocks - easy to lose your balance and fall.

Again, it might be just me... But I see some desperation if he marked them across that stream.

 

[beach]

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[Jax49]

I agree with you. Something I would like to know is if there are any restroom facilities for this "park", "trail" or whatever? I haven't read anything addressing this. IMO, if there aren't any toilet facilities then the girls would have had to go into the woods out of view of any people around. They were suppose to have been there for a long period of time, surely, they would have had to go to pee.

We've heard a planned visit from about 1 pm until planned pickup between 3 or 3:30. Doesn't seem all that long to me. moo

ETA: Maybe they made a pit stop at a gas station or somewhere just before they were dropped off.

 

[KyMom]

Yes, but I am an outdoorsman myself and I wouldn't cross a creek in the winter if I could avoid it. It's knee deep and shifting sands and smooth rocks - easy to lose your balance and fall.

Again, it might be just me... But I see some desperation if he marked them across that stream.

IIRC Isn't there parts of that creek that are very shallow? I remember seeing in some of the video that's been taken of the area it looked to be ankle-deep in some spots. In one video I want to say the area where it's thought he had them cross, and right by where they were found, was one of the shallow areas, you could see the rocks in the creek. Although, just getting your feet/shoes wet, in cold weather, wouldn't be much better.

jmo

 

[Bemused]

Yes, but I am an outdoorsman myself and I wouldn't cross a creek in the winter if I could avoid it. It's knee deep and shifting sands and smooth rocks - easy to lose your balance and fall.

Again, it might be just me... But I see some desperation if he marked them across that stream.

I'm sure you're correct if you're just hunting, fishing, hiking, etc. What I keep going back to in my mind is IMO, no murders were planned, it was something that escalated out of anger, got out of hand, and in a panic things spiraled out of control into two murders. I think, IMO, the girls were under leaves and maybe small branches because I don't believe this person was thinking clearly due to panic and needed to get quickly away before discovery and to establish alibis.

 

[Koshka]

It's a historical trail from what I read.
It's not where moms take their babies to play
Or hang out with other moms.

To me it's a place ppl would go to drink smoke weed and make out.
Along with one or 2 historian buffs.

Or a place people go who enjoy hiking, bird-watching, photography, etc. I've been to a number of places like that and managed to do so without smoking weed or drinking.

ETA: or making out. My mama raised a goody-two shoes. :innocent:

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Did he hang them?
This would explain them not being found earlier.
No one looked up.

I agree with this. When my mom committed suicide, she hung herself. I searched through out the garage & the house & did not look up. It took me 30 mins to find her (very small house, no basement) realizing I had passed her the first time in the garage...so yes, this is a possibility IMO

 

[Bemused]

Or a place people go who enjoy hiking, bird-watching, photography, etc. I've been to a number of places like that and managed to do so without smoking weed or drinking.

There is a MSM interview with a grandfather of Libby in which he says it was a popular spot and Libby went there often, IIRC. I have to leave but when I get back I'll try to locate that. In that article he refers to Libby's sisters, her mother and how he is related to Libby...I think he's married to Libby's mother's mother.

ETA
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

 

[Steleheart]

IIRC Isn't there parts of that creek that are very shallow? I remember seeing in some of the video that's been taken of the area it looked to be ankle-deep in some spots. In one video I want to say the area where it's thought he had them cross, and right by where they were found, was one of the shallow areas, you could see the rocks in the creek. Although, just getting your feet/shoes wet, in cold weather, wouldn't be much better.

jmo

IMO from what I have seen it goes from ankle deep to waist deep depending on where you are. In the helicopter vid it shows the line of searchers in safety gear and if you watch them, some go deeper and some don't. It appears there are holes and depressions that can't be seen. The reason IMO that they are all holding on to each interlocked that way.

Best view of searchers is abt 18:00 to 22:00
https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/videos/10154523478509092/

 

[Eileen730]

Or a place people go who enjoy hiking, bird-watching, photography, etc. I've been to a number of places like that and managed to do so without smoking weed or drinking.

In the summer maybe.
Or nice weekends.

Sadly many of our state parks are turning into crime scenes.

 

[ab01]

I'm sure you're correct if you're just hunting, fishing, hiking, etc. What I keep going back to in my mind is IMO, no murders were planned, it was something that escalated out of anger, got out of hand, and in a panic things spiraled out of control into two murders. I think, IMO, the girls were under leaves and maybe small branches because I don't believe this person was thinking clearly due to panic and needed to get quickly away before discovery and to establish alibis.

Speculating if SA was the primary original motive: I have wondered if once BG got the girls down the hill, perhaps they tried to escape across the creek and in the process one of them tripped and the other one stopped to help her. Allowing BG to catch up to them, gain control of them and rage kicked in and he killed them. MOO