IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #46

[Falling Down]

We know the girls were on the SE end of the bridge, and given the timeline, I'm confident that they were dropped off at the North end of the park. I don't believe that he would take a chance of being seen or meeting someone by forcing them to walk back to the North end of the High Bridge, but instead, as you say, he told them to go down the hill on the South end of the bridge.

Their bodies were found on the North side of the river, so it makes sense that they crossed the river at some point. I think it's very likely that the suspect murdered the girls near his vehicle. It makes complete sense that he parked at the cemetery after seeing the girls being dropped off, and saw the girls on the bridge. It might have been easiest to cross the river and enter the bridge from the SE end, turn around, then take the girls back the way he came - just South of the cemetery.

With all due respect, people might be misled by the images. The cell phone images LE released show the girls and BG at the SE or eastern end of the bridge, which is not in either of those images above.

I just don't want people to get confused.

 

[Swayze]

Do you see that block of text highlighted in red? I'm talking about what he said, not a specific picture.

 

[Bemused]

LE was certainly interested in at least one set of tracks prior to the girls being found. Those tracks may or may not have been the ones that led to the girls. You can read about such things in the scanner thread for this case - since we are not allowed to bring that stuff up to the main thread. There are a some things that can be learned about the searches there and as time goes on what activities LE was up to afterwards.

Thanks, but it's all I can do to keep up here.

http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_9a9f575c-f3b3-11e6-98fc-6f2b82153734.html

That has some information on the search.

News of their disappearance spurred hundreds of volunteers to aid in the search. A makeshift command center was set up at the Delphi Fire Department, where crews of 10 to 12 person groups were sent out to help search an area of 20 to 25 square miles.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

One thing I will point out is that on the day the girls went missing there was an Amber Alert put out for a girl out of Gary, Indiana. It went out at least 3 times - approx. 5:45pm on the 13th, approx 11:15pm on the 13th, approx 7:25am on the 14th. That Amber Alert never mentioned a vehicle or any description of a person that had taken her. As it turns out the girl is the suspect in the murder of her mother and it is my strong opinion that the Gary, Indiana police knew that long before they issued the Amber Alert. It was an abuse of the Amber Alert program as far as I am concerned. State police and local and county law enforcement would have been looking out for that girl during almost all the time Abby and Libby were missing.

I did see that this seemed to break from the normal protocol. It was said the girl's mother was the victim of a crime and the girl was thought to be in extreme danger...guessing the circumstances led to an exception being made, ay?


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[otto]

From the cemetery straight to the crime scene, is everything not cemetery the private property of RL?

Yes, that's quite possible. Excluding the land South of the cemetery, the property is 37.5 acres, and including the land is 42.5 acres.

 

[otto]

With all due respect, people might be misled by the images. The cell phone images LE released show the girls and BG at the SE or eastern end of the bridge, which is not in either of those images above.

I just don't want people to get confused.

If the girls were not located at the SE end of the bridge as I've marked on the map, where were they?

Where would you place the "SE end of the bridge" in the map?

 

[otto]

How are we so sure they were at the SE side of that bridge.

Based on the videos that people have made of the area, yes, they were on the SE end of the bridge.

 

[otto]

I think they were dropped off on the north side they stayed on the north side and were led to where the crime was committted never crossing the creek.

What about the videos aligning the photos with the bridge?

 

[Eileen730]

We know the girls were on the SE end of the bridge, and given the timeline, I'm confident that they were dropped off at the North end of the park. I don't believe that he would take a chance of being seen or meeting someone by forcing them to walk back to the North end of the High Bridge, but instead, as you say, he told them to go down the hill on the South end of the bridge.

Their bodies were found on the North side of the river, so it makes sense that they crossed the river at some point. I think it's very likely that the suspect murdered the girls near his vehicle. It makes complete sense that he parked at the cemetery after seeing the girls being dropped off, and saw the girls on the bridge. It might have been easiest to cross the river and enter the bridge from the SE end, turn around, then take the girls back the way he came - just South of the cemetery.

View attachment 114537

Maybe he made them cross the creek so they wouldn't be found on other property. That makes more sense to me than leaving the girls on you own property

 

[Julpal]

Choosing a day of death is highly unusual and would typically happen only if the exact day wasn't known. I have no doubt they passed on different days. The question is, why? Jmo

 

[Eileen730]

What about the videos aligning the photos with the bridge?

I think it's near impossible to know that.
but that's my thought

 

[Bemused]

Choosing a day of death is highly unusual and would typically happen only if the exact day wasn't known. I have no doubt they passed on different days. The question is, why? Jmo

Possibilities include being kept alive longer or assuming death had occurred or death was imminent and the guy wanted to get the heck out of there. I'm assuming it was still daylight when the girls were attacked, IMO.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I have read that the girls were "3/4 of a mile from the bridge". That can't be right because the distance from the bridge to the far East end of the property is .5 miles.

These maps are of the property and the distance from the bridge to the farthest end of the property.

http://maps.indiana.edu/index.html

That is the approximate distance if you walked the path starting from the bridge that goes over the Hoosier Heartland Highway (25). I think that is called the Freedom Bridge - but correct me if I don't have that bridge named right. So, I think even LE used a similar distance of 8/10s of a mile early on, but again that distance can only be from the start of the official trail and then then distance to the girls off the trail.

Really, MSM got their map wrong. LE gave a distance from a different bridge not the High Bridge. The helicopter flying over the scene never went that far East. The crime scene tape where the girls were found can be seen in that helicopter video (not easily, but it is there). Worse, even after the media were allowed to go down and shoot video and take photos near the crime scene the media outfit that posted that map didn't bother fixing the location because at that point they would have known for sure exactly where it was.

For what it is worth I believe that the crime scene is a little further west than the maps we have depicting it but not all that much further.

 

[sumzero]

Choosing a day of death is highly unusual and would typically happen only if the exact day wasn't known. I have no doubt they passed on different days. The question is, why? Jmo

Someone who used to write obits for a newspaper commented earlier. In his/her experience, obits were often rushed to meet a deadline and often were not precise about dates.

 

[Yvettea]

In all fairness we don't KNOW the girls were on the SE end of the bridge. We know video of a man was shot with Libby's phone.

 

[relay]

WADR, given the temperatures, I doubt it. Abby was wearing what looked like canvas high tops. Those do not air dry overnight IMO.

I agree, Bemused. LE likely sent shoes/clothing (if present) for not only DNA testing but for other forensics testing as well. Microfauna and microflora originating from the creek would not be difficult to test for. This is of course if the girls were clothed as opposed to having or being ordered to remove their clothing/shoes prior to arriving at the crime scene and if in fact they crossed the creek.

Gosh, there is so much we don't know. I understand and respect LE's decision to release very few facts, but sometimes I feel cuckoo like coco-puffs thinking about all the possibles and "ifs." :crazy:

 

[Alexsea]

Another point I will put badly. Small town girl, who grew up with creeks and small rivers. They were deep in spots and shallow in others. As teens, we crossed them on trails without bridges all the time if it was the shortest way to get where we wanted to go. Didn't think about "slippery rocks" or "this could be dangerous ". I can totally see the girls trying to get across the creek to get away, or being ordered across it. To me, moo, not a stretch.


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[Falling Down]

If the girls were not located at the SE end of the bridge as I've marked on the map, where were they?

The map is off a little.

I made this crude drawing on top of a Google map early on in this case, to illustrate what a lot of us believe was the path taken from the SE end of the bridge, to where the girls were found. I have other, better images which resemble what others have posted about distances and whatnot, too.

The bridge is 850+ feet long. Most of the bridge is over land.

Edit: Where they ended up could be a little west of the "end point" of my crude drawing.

 

[Wsimm]

The problem I have is that he would not be in control as he would have to watch his steps as the bridge was rotting in places and lots of wood was missing so you could easily miss a step if you was trying to constrain two girls.

IMO

IMO, whomever holds the gun has the control.......especially when it's concerning two 13yr old girls! I don't think the cause of death was by the gun, but wouldn't be at all surprised that one was used to control and take over!

 

[Jethro4WS]

It looks to me like a staging area.

It was also the closest and easiest access point to where the girls were found. At the southwest corner of the cemetery there is a path that heads south and if you follow it all the way down you will end up at the creek. At the bottom you can walk about 200 to 300 feet to where the girls were found.