IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[No it's not]

ab01, I hope you don't mind me using your post as a spring board for an experiment that tried earlier today because it ties in with your post as your post speaks of some questions that still linger in my mind as to placement of the girls.

Websight, the Not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part One

I wanted to try to video and then take stills from that 60-80 foot mark. I asked my trusty assistants (my teen daughters) to help me recreate what it would look like if someone was filmed on a phone from the above distance. I chose 70 feet as the median and asked my daughter to walk to the 60 foot mark. For this first part of the experiment I did not zoom during the filming (I would zoom after the still was taken). Below is what 60 feet looks like when I took a still from the video:

Now mind you, she would appear closer than that but I kept checking while filming and it isn't that skewed in terms of distance. I wanted to see if I could figure out how far away BG actually was for Libby and LE to have gotten those pictures.

Next I wanted to try to take the still and zoom in and enhance to see if I could make out the features of my daughter:

Well, as you can see, I have a pixelated mess zooming in and enhancing the photo after filming without the zoom on.

So far it seems that the video either might not have been taken from the 60 feet unzoomed or might not have been taken from that great a distance at all.

Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

Not wanting to take up a whole page, I will post a Part Two. I will show what happened when I filmed on zoom and then enhanced the still from it.

Nice work WS! I always your posts. Here is the same picture I quickly ran. I am sure the 3 letter agencies can beat my picasso at any rate. ;--)

Interesting how much older she looks in this enhancement..

 

[Jax49]

It's insane when you start thinking more about all the different phones out there and who knows which one Libby had. I have an iPhone now because I got so sick of the issues with my previous super cheapo phone. The brand on that was Kyocera. They make quite a few low end phones and I remember every time someone asked what kind of phone I had, no one had a clue what that brand even was. So ahh, who knows what Libby was using.

Worth saying there may not have even been a cloud either. I've noticed we've almost taken that idea for granted but while iPhone pretty infamously has iCloud and Google has some cloud capabilities (that you generally have to opt into though. I know I've seen a newer photo app from them. I'm a writer and use Google Drive and Google docs across my mobile devices and computers for just my writing). For sure my cheap android phone I used until the latest iPhone came out did not have any sort of cloud. Worth saying even with Apple unless you pay for more you only get 5GB of storage. The smallest iPhone is 16gb (and the newer ones I think start at 32?) I had a couple of other iPhones prior to my 7 and have an iPad and gosh my iCloud with its 5GB of space has been full for literally years. I don't think anything from my current phone is on there certainly not in the way of photos or video. And I joke with a friend of mine all the time about the annoying alerts that pop up whenever you go to access your photo album on iPhone warning that you're out of iCloud space.

I just don't think clouds are as ubiquitous as what we've been discussing. Maybe I'm wrong but given how many different types of phones there are I don't think we should count on cloud data existing even. So perhaps they do have the phone.

Once again, the more we talk things over the less we know!


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Just jumping off your post. I believe they have the phone based on the following statement from Indiana gov site. moo

investigators have released a voice recording, extracted from a video found on Liberty "Libby" German's cell phone

http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

 

[Aropizt]

I like your working backwards idea, but I keep thinking maybe he dressed differently for this " outing" so as to conceal his identity as far as attire goes. Wear what everyone else is wearing within vague age range. I find it frustrating, not only am I angry with BG for his crime but also his vague choice of clothing. ( More angry with the crime of course I'm just saying) it's almost like.. he planned out this elaborate thing, and no one else had a clue. But I'm just rambling and speculating. Profession wise a job where he could take off on a Monday with little recourse.

Good points. I think at this point all we really know is BG is a guy who is probably Caucasian and of an at least somewhat stocky build (hard to know for sure given how baggy those clothes are and that he may be hiding all sorts of stuff under that jacket!)... um, wow is there anything else? Presumably American... if the DTH voice is his we can assume he's probably from rural Midwest (but then again we had people listing all sorts of accents they claimed they heard).

We can assume he wasn't at work that day but did he not have a job? Have the day off? Work a late shift?

I'm so with you on how frustrating this is and how utterly nondescript his clothing is for that area at that time of year. Says a lot that there's the whole rumor of the man in black because that would've been a style of dress that stuck out but BG? Gosh, I'm not sure I'd have thought twice seeing him either.


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[Bemused]

I've worked over 20 years as a programmer, and we always stressed STRONG PASSWORDS, at least 15 characters comprised of letters, numbers and special characters. Passwords like "password", "123456", your birthday, the names of your kids, are fodder for the bad guys.

Edited to add: strong passwords changed frequently.

I've seen criminals use password, password123, asdfg, zxcvb. I wish I were kidding.

 

[Falling Down]

I've been looking at the Map of the CS areas.....unless the Killer is local/ in walking distance of the bridge.....the Killer needed some sort of vehicle.

- If the Killer is not within walking distance does the killer park at the south edge of the Cemetary on W300 N ?
Does the Killer Park along the W300 N......Does the Killer park at the entrance of the trail NW side?

looking at the cemetary ...it has a dirt Rd surrounding the perimeter....if the Killer used that Dirt Rd IMO Tire tracks would show up and LE could trace a type of tire or vehicle.

- If the Killer used a vehicle .....does that mean Killer has been to this area before?....Does the Killer drive to this area often hoping to find a victim?...or is it just a random attack/chance?.....

IMO the Killer did not use a vehicle to get to the W 300 N rd .....Killer lived close enough to get to the Bridge / CS/ and back home by walking/on foot


another question I have is....How did the Killer even see the Girls?......can you see the Bridge area from the W 300 N Rd?....from the cemetary?

From the videos I have watched.......it seems the trail area is very covered and Foliaged with trees on both sides of the trail....the more open areas seemed to be on the bridge? ( not sure if local posters who have visited the area could weigh in)

Killer could have spotted the Girls bieng dropped off or walking on the bridge......if this is the case...I really doubt the Killer just randomly decided to go to the trail that day to look for a victim.....IMO Killer lives within walking distance.

my opinions only

Great post.

Where was he able to observe the girls? MOO is the general area where they were found, but who knows? Could be you can see the bridge from the far end of the cemetery. I don't know.

MOO is the killer chose an unusually mild day in February to do this horrible deed, that way the foliage (leave, brush, etc.) was non-existent. Not only was this pre-meditated, it was a true crime of opportunity, the circumstances for the perp aligned, and he struck. This indicates to me not only pre-meditation, but sophistication, as in above-average intelligence, and a lot of planning.

 

[Aropizt]

Just jumping off your post. I believe they have the phone based on the following statement from Indiana gov site. moo



http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm

Great catch. I think especially given how careful LE has been as far as how they word everything, they probably would've chosen a different wording if they didn't but maybe not. Just MOO.


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[Jax49]

Great catch. I think especially given how careful LE has been as far as how they word everything, they probably would've chosen a different wording if they didn't but maybe not. Just MOO.


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Thanks but I can't take credit. One of our fellow posters noticed it a while back. But since the subject keeps coming up, I reposted it.

The way I read it they absolutely have the phone. It is a carefully worded statement, not an off the cuff comment.

 

[Lilowlet]

It's insane when you start thinking more about all the different phones out there and who knows which one Libby had. I have an iPhone now because I got so sick of the issues with my previous super cheapo phone. The brand on that was Kyocera. They make quite a few low end phones and I remember every time someone asked what kind of phone I had, no one had a clue what that brand even was. So ahh, who knows what Libby was using.

Worth saying there may not have even been a cloud either. I've noticed we've almost taken that idea for granted but while iPhone pretty infamously has iCloud and Google has some cloud capabilities (that you generally have to opt into though. I know I've seen a newer photo app from them. I'm a writer and use Google Drive and Google docs across my mobile devices and computers for just my writing). For sure my cheap android phone I used until the latest iPhone came out did not have any sort of cloud. Worth saying even with Apple unless you pay for more you only get 5GB of storage. The smallest iPhone is 16gb (and the newer ones I think start at 32?) I had a couple of other iPhones prior to my 7 and have an iPad and gosh my iCloud with its 5GB of space has been full for literally years. I don't think anything from my current phone is on there certainly not in the way of photos or video. And I joke with a friend of mine all the time about the annoying alerts that pop up whenever you go to access your photo album on iPhone warning that you're out of iCloud space.

I just don't think clouds are as ubiquitous as what we've been discussing. Maybe I'm wrong but given how many different types of phones there are I don't think we should count on cloud data existing even. So perhaps they do have the phone.

Once again, the more we talk things over the less we know!


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Yes I agree, interesting some​ don't use cloud and Google, I've not seen one without it since my old flip phone.

 

[tonloc]

I feel like BG is a control freak. has an obsessive compulsive disorder. The way he tells the girls "down the hill". he is controlling them. Maybe he felt threatened by them. Like they were taking something from him. He snapped.

 

[crhedBngr]

I've seen criminals use password, password123, asdfg, zxcvb. I wish I were kidding.

Yeah, I get that completely!!! I'm not surprised.

 

[Lilowlet]

This, or possibly spent many years in prison, and has been laying relatively low since being paroled.

True that. It's possible.

 

[Sir WiggleBottom III]

I've brought up the "steal an IP" scenario, before, here. All they have to do is get on a public WiFi, grab the IP address, and use it with a proxy/VPN/whatever, and be able to browse/surf the interwebz anonymously. Easy to do, get on a public WiFi and merely look at the address on a smart/iPhone or similar device, at the library, a restaurant, etc.

I've been waiting since the hunt for the killer began for people to start bringing this up. Remember what one of the LE guys the first week of the investigation, something to the effect of keep an eye on your kids' online activity. That has stuck with me.

MOO/possible scenario, perp is at the killing spot or thereabouts for a period of time, watching the bridge. He knows local kids have the day off from school. Perp has recon'd the area in the past, maybe even fished there, etc. Using a non-traceable Android TracFone (available at WalMart, Amazon, etc,), is able to surveil SM or at the very least websites devoted to the Monon High Bridge for people 'checking in', or who are 'there' or who are taking pics for SnapChat and whatnot. Maybe Libby checked in, or at the very least was tracked via the SnapChat shot she took of Abby. Who knows?

Perp waits, watches the bridge, maybe even has a set of binoculars. Waits until the girls are a fair enough distance across it. Starts walking towards the NW end of the bridge, along the creek.

Girls see him on the opposite creek edge. Perp gets on the bridge. Girls get nervous, Libby starts recording when BG gets over half way across the bridge. The rest is history.

I can't stress enough that there might be an online connection with this case. People have inadvertently posted things online and become victims of crimes in the past, even been murdered. This blows a huge hole in the whole "he's a drifter" theory.

JMO

If your spoofing an ip, your not forgetting to empty cloud

 

[Falling Down]

If your spoofing an ip, your not forgetting to empty cloud

Or there's no uploading of anything to speak of.

JMO

 

[AlphaWolf]

Great post.

Where was he able to observe the girls? MOO is the general area where they were found, but who knows? Could be you can see the bridge from the far end of the cemetery. I don't know.

This indicates to me not only pre-meditation, but sophistication, as in above-average intelligence, and a lot of planning.

RSBM
thanks...

I wish we had some video from along the W 300 N rd facing towards the trail and Bridge areas......to see if the girls would be visible.

also..... if the Killer planned this out do you think the Killer planned to hide the bodies / bury the bodies? if so what happened?.....

Did the Killer know He/she was bieng filmed?.....( IF Killer is BG)

just some random thoughts that keep popping up.....hmmmm

 

[Tricia]

Thread Closing Shortly

 

[whiskers]

1.) I wonder how many people outside of social media knew where the girls would be that day. For instance friends, friends of friends, and family friends. (On IG we know another friend was supposed to join them that day, but declined.)

2.) It's possible BG spooked them enough that they decided not to wait for their ride and walk back to Libby's house. He could have followed them on their walk back home...forced them down a hill and into the woods.

3.) What I still find interesting is his swiftness in killing two people in such a short amount of time. (Providing we take the theory he didn't take both or one of them away for a while.) Family arrived in daylight calling and searching. You can see from the pictures that it's easy to see into parts of the woods from the bridge.

 

[Tricia]

Everyone get your sleep.

We will see you tomorrow morning.

G'night.

Tricia
PS HERE IS ThREAD #49 WHICH WE WILL OPEN FIRST THING IN THE MORNING.

 

[whiskers]

This doesn't give me a good feeling.

I agree. (Of course we will have people saying right away LE is keeping everything close to the chest, etc. and hopefully they are right.)

But I also wouldn't be surprised if we are here in another 2 months wondering if there are updates.

 

[Lilowlet]

Gnight

 

[Billy Mabou]

I just want to say something here, based on fact.

I work in Multimedia (primarily Video) and it's a technical field that is constantly changing (hello 4K!) and requires one to keep learning in order to stay relevant.

In my very demanding 15 years of experience so far, I've learned that age has absolutely nothing to do with skill set when it comes to technology and problem-solving. Some people just get it. I work with a guy in his 60's who is known worldwide in the field because of his smarts and his presence on social media. People in their 20's follow him in droves because he shares his knowledge.

Additionally, I'm constantly surprised at how many younger people who come through our company are actually technically inept. Some are brilliant, but some are unable to use a computer to do much beyond Facebook.

So, IMO, I call shenanigans on the idea that age has anything to do with technical ability.

I'm not even mentioning the value that experience brings! And don't get me started on work ethic :crosseyed:

This isn't directed at you personally, I just have to debunk this myth. It's so wrong.

I'm really glad someone else is thinking this way. Looking at who is in charge of the investigative team I see a lot of baby boomers and no offense and this is not an ageist statement but someone has got to tell these people that it's time for them to go ahead and enjoy life thanks for your expertise but please move on there's more than enough Gen Xers Who have been patiently watching the baby boomers dominate professional work spaces and culture up until the information technology revolution. Despite a bad reputation there's more than a few capable millennial's out there as well so I wish the baby boomers well it'll be interesting to see where their place and history is recorded but we have to get this guy off the street and it requires some flexible thinking here.
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful post and I am not hating on any generation