IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[jillycat]

Members have brought up the perp's background, people in his life who may have identified him already, etc.

Within the last 24 hours I read about a guy who is a POI in an abduction case in central NY which has gone unsolved for decades. He was convicted in an attempted abduction case mamy years ago, in a different state, and had been through a divorce where it was alleged he not only put his wife and daughter through hell, but he sexually assaulted both of them. Never convicted on the latter.

I think this perp is not local to Indiana, at least not crime-wise. He's struck before, but there may be a chance it wasn't in Indiana. JMO obviously, but something tells me the fact that there hasn't been a PC in weeks, plus the huge number of billboards involved, tells me the FBI figured early on this wasn't a local, and they were already leaning towards a SK.

I too suspect that the crime scene and what they knew early on likely suggested a SK. I am disturbed by the type of crime this seems to be.

 

[Mainemom76]

The motive is so key.

I know many of you aren't for sure about it, and I'm not either.

It could be a small town crime, and middle school girls can make enemies. Sometimes the families get involved. The only reason I am throwing that out there is because I don't think that has been looked at yet, at least not here.

I lean toward a SA maniac, but not sure at all, and the more this case goes on with no solution, I am looking at outside reasons for these girls to have met their deaths in such a horrible way.

I still feel, in my depth, this was a solo killer who may have found out the girls were going to be there that day. He may have learned it from social media, he may have bumped into them at a convenient store along the way, he may have been watching when they got dropped off, or he may have had some other sort of tie.

I still think of him as a wolf after two deer. I know some of you have followed this case so much you have had dreams about it, too. That was mine.

Anyway, I know we aren't allowed to sleuth posters here, or post the results, but I do think there may have been a cry for help earlier tonight. It was deleted, and rightfully so, because it sounded like nonsense, but where there are clues...

Creepy. I don't know how I missed it. Must have been deleted quickly?

 

[Ghosthunter]

I hope you stick around and share your thoughts and insights on this and other cases. I look at some of the negative and ill- mannered posts and sometimes they really get to me. How in the world do they justify attacking others for having an opinion different than their own? I'm fairly new , too, and it's finally getting easier to learn those people by their member name & profile pic, so that I can start scrolling before I even read their words.

O/T Hello to the Bluegrass Commonwealth ! It's almost Derby time. I was born & raised in Western Ky.

Hello from southeast Kentucky! I'm learning to scroll and roll too.nlol!

 

[looksbetterinred]

Hello from southeast Kentucky! I'm learning to scroll and roll too.nlol!

OT

I'm a Kentucky transplant. Left for the military. All of my family still live in the sc of the state. I may be gone but I still bleed blue!

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[Bemused]

MIght explain the more than 14,000 tips. Because everyone knows someone who dresses like that.

How many of those someones were in or near Delphi, Indiana on February 13, 2017?

 

[AuctionGal]

Hello from southeast Kentucky! I'm learning to scroll and roll too.nlol!

Central Kentucky here!

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[Bemused]

I too suspect that the crime scene and what they knew early on likely suggested a SK. I am disturbed by the type of crime this seems to be.

Although our opinions differ a great deal I think, given the reaction of the LEOs in the initial two press conferences, it's safe to assume it horrified them. Their emotion and commitment really got to me. I would much rather they protect their case than satisfy my curiosity but some don't agree with me. If withholding information makes the case easier for them to solve to get this guy behind bars, I absolutely support their decisions.

 

[Rossymom]

Creepy. I don't know how I missed it. Must have been deleted quickly?

I believe it was quickly deleted.
Those who monitor this website ROCK!


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[Lilowlet]

Hello from southeast Kentucky! I'm learning to scroll and roll too.nlol!

I'm glad you're back! I'm a Tennessean myself so hello neighbor. I'm pretty new too, but I'm naive and can't tell if I'm being insulted, so I'm happily blissfully unaware. Anywho, wondering what the news coverage is like in your area, I said earlier how I was surprised how many of my relatives don't know about this case and a few other cases.

 

[Aropizt]

WebSight, the not-So-Magnificent's Video Experiment - Part Two

Again, for this experiment I took a video of my daughter walking towards the camera starting at a distance of 70 feet down to 60 feet away. This time I zoomed while filming and then enhanced the photo after I caught my still from the video:

My daughter is still 60 feet away but she is zoomed at the maximum level and is already looking blurry. Next I cropped the still that I grabbed, enhanced it the best I could, and zoomed some more:

This close up is a blurry mess. You cannot even make out her face at all. So, still no joy.

So I have now filmed at the maximum zoom level at a distance of 60 feet (using GrayHuze's estimates) and I cannot even get a picture as clear or as close as BG's shots. My thoughts lean toward that maybe the girls were closer to BG after all? I cannot zoom enough to get a clear picture at 60 feet. So, back to the drawing board for me. I think that tomorrow I am going to try filming at 50 feet and then 40, etc. to see what it takes to get even a face.

Again the disclaimer: Please note that I am not in the least bit interested in proving much greater minds than mine wrong. I am just the gal who discovered she likes fiddling with pictures and I use that fiddling to answer my own questions. I may be totally wrong and I am happy if someone with more experience can show me my errors and I can go back to the drawing board and improve. I hope that you don't mind my sharing these. I don't mind if you poke holes! oke:

The third experiment I did was to have my younger daughter film my older daughter walking towards her while my younger one is moving herself away from the older and leaving the camera on as she put it in her pocket. That one needs work so I won't post it yet.

Haven't read all the replies but I just want to point out something really important with regards to this whole experiment and the zooming and image quality- We do not know what kind of phone Libby had.

Mind sharing what type of phone you have?

I ask because there is a dramatic variety in camera quality in phones these days. I'm by no means a photography expert (stated previously I'm somewhat of a hobbyist and ages ago did some paid photography very casually and for a very small college paper, but all of that was prior to phones even being "smart" lol) the zoom capacity on most phones is probably not so different just due to the nature of the way phones are built but the mores a huge difference in megapixels which is going to effect how things look when it comes to details and close up zooming/ cropping.

Beyond that up until recently I was using this cheap prepaid phone that I bought because it had the best camera specs of similar such phones however I quickly learned the specs were meaningless because the processor and whatnot (I'm totally clueless on phones lol) was just garbage so it was near impossible to take a photo that wasn't blurry and basically the crud I got from that camera was nowhere near what I would've expected with the camera specs it had. So there's a lot of variables there.

With all that said while I'm unsure that the zoomed photos can tell us much at least for certain, I'm actually thrilled someone did this because it helps a ton in terms of visualizing it all and even understanding why this probably is the very best that LE could do as far as image quality goes.

I just think it would be very interesting to know what kind of phone you have and cooler yet if a few other folks who have different phones could try a similar experiment as well. That would be especially useful, I think, in that if multiple try with multiple types of phones and no one is getting remotely close to a clear image then that would definitely suggest BG was much closer. I'm not sure we can make that determination from just one example and not knowing what kind of phone Libby was using.

Perhaps a couple of our photo/video experts could chime in or further clarify/ explain what I was attempting to. I'm sure there's loads to read and research on all this camera/ phone stuff but not sure if it's worth going down that rabbit hole. I think however, it should be pretty easy to understand that without knowing what type of phone Libby had, its probably impossible to recreate the images with any certainty.

All that said, hats off to you WebSight for going far above and beyond for all of our sakes! Perhaps this case is giving you a new found hobby of photography and photo editing! (And for real, your efforts are better than you give yourself credit for!)


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[cluciano63]

I believe LE went to check on sex offenders right at the very start. That says a lot about motive to me. Jmo

 

[Aropizt]

What kind of phone model were you using? Do we know the model of the phone that took the original images? I know there are, sometimes large, amounts of quality from model to model.
It may be something as simple as that. Part 2 showed a better thought track IMO. The pixelation on part 1 could not be cleaned up enough to get a marginal image. Part 2 on the otherhand, is a bit more like the original. I feel that the video may have been zoomed which would lead me to think that they may have uneasy feeling long before he was within arms reach.

All moo

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I knew if I didn't read other comments someone else would've pointed this out before I did. And so much more concisely too. Agree completely.

Very interesting point as far as the zoom goes though I'm very curious what type of phone WebSight has. I feel like if its a higher end one with a better camera we can be almost certain that Libby zoomed (and/or that BG was actually closer.) but if it's lower end compared to some of the most popular phones on the market I'm unsure if we can make that conclusion or not. But I'm no expert so just my thoughts.

Also I'm sure I'm forgetting it but can anyone tell me where the estimate of how far away Libby was while taking the photo was stated? Is this a fact stated by LE or not? Just curious and I don't recall where I first heard that.


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[Lilowlet]

I believe LE went to check on sex offenders right at the very start. That says a lot about motive to me. Jmo

It could, I'm not sure what is standard protocol as far as child cases go. But regardless it was a part of my thoughts too involving motives, just wasn't sure if it was a singular motive. Imo always

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Just thinking out loud here, then I really do have to get back to work...LOL

What we don't know is obvious...

But, what DO WE know? Who can we rule out based upon what we DO KNOW.

For instance, BG is not wearing a uniform, so we can rule out postal workers, UPS drivers, Fed X drivers etc.

He is unshaven, does that allow us to rule out most executives????

He is not dressed fashionably, so does that allow us to rule out office worker? (IDK what folks down in Indiana wear to work)

Can we maybe start working this from the opposite direction? Perhaps start of list of likely or unlikely professions and maybe narrow it down from there?

...or am I sleep deprived...LOL

 

[Aropizt]

It could be, as some one said, that there was not enough signal to do a completed voice call. She may, for instance, have tried to call the relative who was going to pick them up to tell him/her that they were ready to leave early, but couldn't get the call to muster enough signal to get through. Snapchat only the other hand, would keep trying over and over and use one little sliver of connection time to do its upload. Have seen this happen with my cell phone.

Oh my gosh, this is an maybe a wild thought but what if you're onto something as far as signal goes? Say those Snapchat photos weren't actually uploaded at 2:07 (or was it 2:09?) but earlier and the phone did as you described with repeatedly trying to upload until they finally did? I don't know if it would make a huge difference and I assume LE a time stamp on the video of BG and all but we've all remarked at how quickly this all would've had to have happened and even the witness at the trails seemed to be going off the Snapchat photo time so what if our timeline is off?

No idea of that really changes anything or how likely this scenario is but you're right, I've seen my phone do the same thing.


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[Bemused]

Just thinking out loud here, then I really do have to get back to work...LOL

What we don't know is obvious...

But, what DO WE know? Who can we rule out based upon what we DO KNOW.

For instance, BG is not wearing a uniform, so we can rule out postal workers, UPS drivers, Fed X drivers etc.

He is unshaven, does that allow us to rule out most executives????

He is not dressed fashionably, so does that allow us to rule out office worker? (IDK what folks down in Indiana wear to work)

Can we maybe start working this from the opposite direction? Perhaps start of list of likely or unlikely professions and maybe narrow it down from there?

...or am I sleep deprived...LOL

Far be it from me to rain on another poster's Easter parade, but anyone can change clothes fairly quickly. For all we know he changed in the woods and stashed his work clothes there. IMO

That makes me sad to type because this is the first Easter without Abby and Libby for their friends and families.

 

[cluciano63]

The clothing tells us nothing, really. Even if he does have a job with a uniform, he could be a night shift worker, on a day off, etc...

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

From personal experience, as a teen, my friends and I went rolling through a corn field, literally rolling in it. We were chased by the farmer all around the neighborhood and scolded, lectured on how this cost him money. So I agree with you on this one. They imo would notice after a while.but who knows.

I agree Farmers generally watch everything going on. For many years I would go out storm chasing and also to take pictures of the beautiful sunsets way out in open farmland
I had to Drive pretty far most of the time because I live in a heavily forested area and I needed open-skies) I had the cops called on me several times just for being parked off the side of the road sometimes. I had a lot of experiences from those days which Looking Back Now in hindsight really freaks me out because there was actually a serial killer in this area that was trolling for victims on the very same roads that I would park off of and walk into Fields taking pictures. anyhow, yes.. country folk watch their land very closely.

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

I believe one of the things LE were asking early on was if anyone had seen any vehicles near the trail entrances, etc. With over 13,000 tips, they may have that information already, if the suspect did indeed drive to the area, and then drive away. With how guarded they've been with everything else, I don't think they're going to tell us about any of those tips, or anything they have learned regarding this case. JMO

Great points....

I think either way ...BG most likely entered from the NE side or near RL's property( to avoid bieng on the trail ).....and came up to the bridge on the SE or NW entrance ( side of bridge) ambushed the Girls.....

returned the Girls (to where the Bodies were found) on the edge of RL's property

- The main reason i think BG entered on the NW side of the bridge is because BG would have had to cross the creek / water first ( if he came from the North East area to the SE entrance of the Bridge)...would his pants look wet and muddy on a blurry photo?.....not sure IMO they look dry.

also would the Girls have taken a photo of a man walking away from them instead?......not sure? (Maybe he doubled back and they got scared! so maybe he did enter from the south side).....but there is a photo of a man walking towards them...

how he got there without anyone seeing him walking/riding or any vehicle parked anywhere is important to me ( considering the area seems quite and locals may have noticed any vehicles or people walking around)...

 

[Lilowlet]

Just thinking out loud here, then I really do have to get back to work...LOL

What we don't know is obvious...

But, what DO WE know? Who can we rule out based upon what we DO KNOW.

For instance, BG is not wearing a uniform, so we can rule out postal workers, UPS drivers, Fed X drivers etc.

He is unshaven, does that allow us to rule out most executives????

He is not dressed fashionably, so does that allow us to rule out office worker? (IDK what folks down in Indiana wear to work)

Can we maybe start working this from the opposite direction? Perhaps start of list of likely or unlikely professions and maybe narrow it down from there?

...or am I sleep deprived...LOL

I like your working backwards idea, but I keep thinking maybe he dressed differently for this " outing" so as to conceal his identity as far as attire goes. Wear what everyone else is wearing within vague age range. I find it frustrating, not only am I angry with BG for his crime but also his vague choice of clothing. ( More angry with the crime of course I'm just saying) it's almost like.. he planned out this elaborate thing, and no one else had a clue. But I'm just rambling and speculating. Profession wise a job where he could take off on a Monday with little recourse.