IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[Lilowlet]

You, and others, are assuming LE has nothing. I don't believe that's the case but we shall see when LE makes a statement either way.

I hope it is soon. But then again, they have to make a case. That's more important than my wanting to know. Your posts open my eyes tbh. Sometimes I sit selfishly wanting answers. Or read too​ deep into nothing. And I read something you post and it's raw and I realize. Not to butt kiss but I enjoy your posts. 😉 What's your thoughts on if the girls were coerced into following BG or he immediately took control with no illusions of false ideas of puppies or people down the hill?

 

[mtnlites]

I don't think he would smoke out in the woods.
Fires and all. Q

As someone married to a smoker, raised by smokers, and living in a rural wooded area surrounded by smokers, it has been my experience that they will smoke where they want. I have yet to visit a trail or forest area where I haven't encountered butts. The older generation seems less concerned-neither one of my grandparents cared where they dropped them.

 

[Hatfield]

LOL
I use it to keep tabs on the area surrounding my business because it is near a University.

OT
Im an unofficial expert at scoping out the neighborhood happenings using binoculars from inside my house.

Here are some valuable tips to help those that are also in the profession
:websleuther:

TIP 1:
It helps to be
:drink:
because that way you get overly paranoid at the slightest noises outside.

TIP 2:
When using binoculars always stand back about 5 feet from your window so that you cannot be seen from anyone outside. If you stand too close to your window then people outside can actually see you standing there near your window looking out with binoculars. LOL
If you stand back aways from your window then it becomes much harder for anyone to make out that you are back there looking out.
Plus, the extra five feet is not needed since you have binoculars

TIP 3
This is the most important tip.
When using binoculars at night then be sure to turn off all your lights in the room you are in. Otherwise you will stand out like a sore thumb to the people outside. If you have it dark in the room you are in then you can still see out just fine and nobody from the outside can tell you are in your room looking out with binoculars.
Even when it is not dark out then still make sure your room does not have any lights on.

TIP 4:
If you have a screened window those are all the better to stand behind when looking outside with binoculars. The screening causes it to look dark inside your house to anyone who is outside looking back towards your screened in window.
Plus the screening does not impede your viewing much at all.

TIP 5
Make sure you are not standing in front of anything white like a refrigerator or something that will make you stand out. You dont want your silhouette to contrast with anything behind it. It is best to have a dark colored wall behind you.

TIP 6
Stay still
If you do have to move then move very slowly. You dont want to make any sudden movements as you can be spotted more easily if you are moving around.

GOOD LUCK and if you do find that someone on the outside notices you looking out your window then do what I do. Freak out and run away from your window. :floorlaugh:

 

[asyousay]

Maybe he claimed to be railroad police or some other form of LE/security? Definitely wouldn't be the first time that MO has been used to abduct and kill.

Dressed like that ?

Libby was 14 and Abby 13 so not little kids that can be easily manipulated by some story. Libby was very intelligent her uncle (I think it was him) said and was straight A Student and very much into science. Teenagers today are not stupid and are a lot more savvy and grow up a lot quicker.


I think Libby was very assured and wouldn't of fallen into a trap and I think it's as simple he had a weapon of some kind and that's the way he did it.

 

[ocgrad]

Has anyone ever seen evidence of a second crime scene because I haven't. As much coverage and flyovers as they've done, wouldn't there be some evidence of another scene? Just the yellow tape alone would be a huge clue. Any other evidence you've heard from below?

It's possible the other crime scene is a good distance away from the creek, in a house/barn/shed or near another creek and LE has not found it yet.

 

[Lilowlet]

As someone married to a smoker, raised by smokers, and living in a rural wooded area surrounded by smokers, it has been my experience that they will smoke where they want. I have yet to visit a trail or forest area where I haven't encountered butts. The older generation seems less concerned-neither one of my grandparents cared where they dropped them.

I can second this. I am a smoker and I smoke anywhere. As a teen if I knew I was about to do something wrong I smoked even more. I put butts in my pocket at parks, trails and parking lots though, snub them on my base of my shoe, which on another note would make my shoe prints obvious to forensics.

 

[WebSight]

It was part of his Probation -

Stated in the court records:
The Court orders the defendant to have no access to a motorized vehicle.

If that were the case, I would have thought that they would have impounded his vehicle when he was arrested for the probation violations.

It appears that they took it as evidence pursuant to the search warrant as they took it on the day of the search and it had the red tape on the doors.

That is how it appears to me anyway.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Has anyone ever seen evidence of a second crime scene because I haven't. As much coverage and flyovers as they've done, wouldn't there be some evidence of another scene? Just the yellow tape alone would be a huge clue. Any other evidence you've heard from below?

No, there is only the one big area marked off on the north side and immediately near the south end of the bridge. There is no indication of any crime scene tape of a marked off area anywhere on the south side of the creek except at the bridge itself.

But I have been explicitly clear that LE hasn't said that the girls were killed where they were found. Where they were found is a crime scene however that does not mean that is also the location where the girls were killed. Two different things. They could be the same location. That is, the girls were killed where they were found but LE has never said that and the media has never asked about it.

It is my theory that the girls were taken elsewhere, killed elsewhere, and their bodies placed where they were found. Given that, in my opinion, LE has not found the murder scene yet and I am strongly of the belief that they are still actively trying to find it.

 

[WebSight]

If RL smokes, there would likely be cigarette butts on his property from previous walks. Is DNA testing able to determine how recently a cigarette was smoked and dropped?

From what I have recently learned, they can tell that without dna testing. I found that amazing.

 

[Lilowlet]

No, there is only the one big area marked off on the north side and immediately near the south end of the bridge. There is no indication of any crime scene tape of a marked off area anywhere on the south side of the creek except at the bridge itself.

But I have been explicitly clear that LE hasn't said that the girls were killed where they were found. Where they were found is a crime scene however that does not mean that is also the location where the girls were killed. Two different things. They could be the same location. That is, the girls were killed where they were found but LE has never said that and the media has never asked about it.

It is my theory that the girls were taken elsewhere, killed elsewhere, and their bodies placed where they were found. Given that, in my opinion, LE has not found the murder scene yet and I am strongly of the belief that they are still actively trying to find it.

I thought that there was two areas of CS tape one on one side of the creek one where they were found?

 

[Aropizt]

How many drug users would kill two teenager girls for them spotting them doing drugs or even dealing?

I can not imagine many at all imo


It's a massive jump!!

I agree. I just don't really see this happening. There's studies and all (one or two have been linked in previous discussions here) linking drug abuse to violent crime but that's not so much about people seeing the person using (or buying or selling) but more that drugs alter people's judgement in all kinds of situations. I just don't see how some teenage girls would've been much of a threat and why kill them? And frankly do we really believe someone who decided right at the spur of the moment to murder two girls for catching them using could've pulled off this crime so well? And I still don't get how the BG video even factors into such a scenario.

I mean of course we can't rule it out since we know so very little but IMO I just don't see this as likely. Have any of you ever inadvertently caught someone buying, selling, or using drugs in a public place before? I have. Quite a few times honestly (from high school to festivals to street corners in shady parts of town). I'm still alive to tell the tale. I strongly doubt I'm the only commenter here who has seen this stuff either. Because yes, drug use is startlingly common. Which bears the point even beyond anecdotal evidence that as common as drug use is then, how often do we see two young girls murdered for inadvertently witnessing a drug related crime?

Anyway, just my opinion. But I really feel like the drug thing is stretching it. People accidentally see all kinds of stuff. Honestly these girls were so young there's a reasonable chance that even if they did accidentally see something they might not have even known what it was. I was their age, summer before my 9th grade year the first time I ever laid eyes on drugs of any kind and it was some girls in a summer school class I was taking. Blew my mind. And it was what I now know would've been a felony amount of marijuana, there was a lot of it. Had it been something else I can't even imagine how I'd have reacted at that age. Or if I'd have had any idea even what it was. Do we really think these girls would've recognized something like meth? Or do we think someone dealing something like marijuana would kill over it? Just wondering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WebSight]

Thank you , I will check that out as I have never watched his videos. I watched the ones from Julie Melvin

[video=youtu;NJopmUgnMAc]http://youtu.be/NJopmUgnMAc[/video]

I believe Julie made these videos to help Grayhuze with placement in the creation of his. So, two for one there!

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

FBI is often involved if it's CP or other computer related crime.

Could very well be. Maybe a meth lab if her friend sees a hazmat team & FD. Where I live the SWAT teams use armored vehicles to effect a raid whether drug-related or a felony fugitive, etc. Maybe U.S. Marshals are part of this raid. No idea.

 

[Momma2cam]

I agree. I just don't really see this happening. There's studies and all (one or two have been linked in previous discussions here) linking drug abuse to violent crime but that's not so much about people seeing the person using (or buying or selling) but more that drugs alter people's judgement in all kinds of situations. I just don't see how some teenage girls would've been much of a threat and why kill them? And frankly do we really believe someone who decided right at the spur of the moment to murder two girls for catching them using could've pulled off this crime so well? And I still don't get how the BG video even factors into such a scenario.

I mean of course we can't rule it out since we know so very little but IMO I just don't see this as likely. Have any of you ever inadvertently caught someone buying, selling, or using drugs in a public place before? I have. Quite a few times honestly (from high school to festivals to street corners in shady parts of town). I'm still alive to tell the tale. I strongly doubt I'm the only commenter here who has seen this stuff either. Because yes, drug use is startlingly common. Which bears the point even beyond anecdotal evidence that as common as drug use is then, how often do we see two young girls murdered for inadvertently witnessing a drug related crime?

Anyway, just my opinion. But I really feel like the drug thing is stretching it. People accidentally see all kinds of stuff. Honestly these girls were so young there's a reasonable chance that even if they did accidentally see something they might not have even known what it was. I was their age, summer before my 9th grade year the first time I ever laid eyes on drugs of any kind and it was some girls in a summer school class I was taking. Blew my mind. And it was what I now know would've been a felony amount of marijuana, there was a lot of it. Had it been something else I can't even imagine how I'd have reacted at that age. Or if I'd have had any idea even what it was. Do we really think these girls would've recognized something like meth? Or do we think someone dealing something like marijuana would kill over it? Just wondering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Children that grow up in environments where drugs are used (parental or sibling drug use, for example) would likely recognize the drug by age 14. I've worked with children as young as 4 that can articulate how to smoke marijuana. Jmo.

IMO, if drugs play any role in the murders, it was not that they randomly came across BG using but that there's a deeper connection. This is one of my two theories. I'm leaning toward a sexual and/or power and control motive though. Jmo.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[Mercedes]

36 miles or so.

Anything on scanner from there?

 

[Bemused]

I hope it is soon. But then again, they have to make a case. That's more important than my wanting to know. Your posts open my eyes tbh. Sometimes I sit selfishly wanting answers. Or read too​ deep into nothing. And I read something you post and it's raw and I realize. Not to butt kiss but I enjoy your posts. �� What's your thoughts on if the girls were coerced into following BG or he immediately took control with no illusions of false ideas of puppies or people down the hill?

I think they were wary because they knew him and had been confronted before, but not petrified enough to run, idk. Whatever happened I think happened pretty quickly, at least I hope so for Abby and Libby's sakes. IMO

Thank you.

 

[Beth11311]

I agree. I just don't really see this happening. There's studies and all (one or two have been linked in previous discussions here) linking drug abuse to violent crime but that's not so much about people seeing the person using (or buying or selling) but more that drugs alter people's judgement in all kinds of situations. I just don't see how some teenage girls would've been much of a threat and why kill them? And frankly do we really believe someone who decided right at the spur of the moment to murder two girls for catching them using could've pulled off this crime so well? And I still don't get how the BG video even factors into such a scenario.

I mean of course we can't rule it out since we know so very little but IMO I just don't see this as likely. Have any of you ever inadvertently caught someone buying, selling, or using drugs in a public place before? I have. Quite a few times honestly (from high school to festivals to street corners in shady parts of town). I'm still alive to tell the tale. I strongly doubt I'm the only commenter here who has seen this stuff either. Because yes, drug use is startlingly common. Which bears the point even beyond anecdotal evidence that as common as drug use is then, how often do we see two young girls murdered for inadvertently witnessing a drug related crime?

Anyway, just my opinion. But I really feel like the drug thing is stretching it. People accidentally see all kinds of stuff. Honestly these girls were so young there's a reasonable chance that even if they did accidentally see something they might not have even known what it was. I was their age, summer before my 9th grade year the first time I ever laid eyes on drugs of any kind and it was some girls in a summer school class I was taking. Blew my mind. And it was what I now know would've been a felony amount of marijuana, there was a lot of it. Had it been something else I can't even imagine how I'd have reacted at that age. Or if I'd have had any idea even what it was. Do we really think these girls would've recognized something like meth? Or do we think someone dealing something like marijuana would kill over it? Just wondering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This. I am in absolute agreement that there is no way IMO this had to do with the girls seeing someone or multiple people doing/selling drugs. I'm confident about very little in this case but that I feel sure of (again, moo). The only way I can imagine drugs being a part of this story would be if RL or someone on his property was dealing for example, and one of their drivers for the product just so happened to be in the right place at the right time. As in, the driver was just a bad personal who saw an opportunity. But even that is stretching the whole drug angle.

There is a drug epidemic in the US without a doubt...but with that being said, IMO it just didn't have anything to do with our girls being killed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eileen730]

For some reason, I felt the parent company that owns the digital billboards donated the space. I could be wrong, but it's a feeling I've had. Or deeply discounted.

Go back to the cache view site and search again. I just posted it a few comments up. -Nin

How many drug users would kill two teenager girls for them spotting them doing drugs or even dealing?

I can not imagine many at all imo


It's a massive jump!!

If they go to prison for 12 years they would.

 

[Ashley95]

From what I have recently learned, they can tell that without dna testing. Amazing, huh?

It must depend on how much you stood and twisted your foot on cig but. As you can do it for a 30 seconds and degrade them massively.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Bemused]

FBI is often involved if it's CP or other computer related crime.

Yes, they are.