IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[kat913]

Someone asked for this video of the Iowa case. Here it is

https://youtu.be/oAZWdBFs2LQ

Thanks BoggLed!! Do you notice how no one ever runs into other people at each of these sites? Not like a "popular" place to run/hike etc....very remote and isolated...

 

[otto]

When you look at both scenes, they are very remote and almost identical in topography (even down to farm field beyond it). Whoever posted thet Iowa drive shows just how remote and yet how very close to a farm field. JMO

It's the very same thing here. The road that goes under the Monon Bridge leads to a private residence, and where they went down the hill might have been visible from the house - depending on tree foliage. The Iowa girls were found a short walk (maybe 1/4 mile) from a turn-around dead-end road. They were found by chance when hunters nearly missed them as they were walking within feet of their remains.

 

[GangaMa]

Hello Everyone, I am pretty new to this forum and trying to figure out how to contribute right. Anyway - I had an idea. If there was a non profit started for Abigail and Liberty anyone wanting to contribute their DNA for this crime and only for this or other crime they gave permission for --- the potential for a familial identification, would skyrocket.
I feel confident every mother in Indiana and beyond Indiana would get in line to get a cheek swab for Liberty and Abby, because if their 6th cousin did this or even a son or husband, brother - they would want them caught.

Suggest you contact ISP with this. Great idea!

 

[Matlacha]

do you have an opinion why they "cleared" the man from the bicycle road search almost immediately but they have not cleared RL to date? I am just curious...

My guess is that "cleared" and "not a suspect at this time" are effectively the same thing. LE doesn't really clear anybody--a trial does that. And even a "not guilty" verdict at trial doesn't really clear anyone or mean they're innocent, it just relieves them of criminal liability (though they can still be sued in civil court).

But back to LE. When LE says someone isn't a suspect, it might mean either of two things (or possibly more): (1) the person really isn't a suspect, or (2) the person is a suspect and LE doesn't want to tip its hand. Remember, lying to LE is usually a crime. Lying by LE is standard operating procedure, and understandably in instances like this. Let's say a certain person has an alibi, but the investigating officers remain suspicious. They may say the person isn't a suspect, or isn't a suspect at this time, but continue to evaluate the alibi. Guess what--that person, like anyone else who falls under suspicion, remains a suspect until they no longer are. And people can become suspects, or be dropped as suspects, without ever being identified as such.

On why people might still suspect RL is involved? For one thing, because LE said so. IIRC, they said he isn't a suspect in the murders but is still involved in the investigation. Who knows what that means? He may not be a suspect, and may not be BG, but LE may believe he knows more than he has revealed.

 

[kat913]

It's the very same thing here. The road that goes under the Monon Bridge leads to a private residence, and where they went down the hill might have been visible from the house - depending on tree foliage. The Iowa girls were found a short walk (maybe 1/4 mile) from a turn-around dead-end road. They were found by chance when hunters nearly missed them as they were walking within feet of their remains.

Also Iowa crime scene was in July (they were found in December)....farm field held crops may have hidden them at that time (not barren as video looks)

 

[GangaMa]

I was pleased to finally see an arrest in the horrific Vanessa Marcotte case today. I know it took 8 months to arrest the monster but I believe BG will be arrested too at some point. Law enforcement will be relentless at trying to find him. He is not going to get away with this.

On the VM case, it only took one alert and dedicated LE person to bag the perp. A big thank you to that LE officer!!!!

 

[otto]

Hijack it! I'm begging you! The rl iis BG and the RL isn't BG is like a broken record every evening and degrades into a pissing contest every day with snarky comments from some members. Id be happy discussing anything except that at this point.. Jmo! We are a better group than that. Lets try to discuss something constructive. Please!!!

When I try to understand something like this, I don't immediately search sex offenders in the area. My instinct is to understand the crime scene and how the suspect moved through the crime scene. In this case, the crime scene extends from the North entrance of the park to the cemetery, and the SE end of the bridge. My next curiosity is how he would have looked after committing the murders. I think he had wet feet.

If this is the same suspect, I have to wonder why there's a 20 mile distance between abduction and bodies in 2012, and less than a mile between abduction and bodies in 2017. Got away with it, getting careless, doing it closer to home, giving more away by accident?

 

[kat913]

When I try to understand something like this, I don't immediately search sex offenders in the area. My instinct is to understand the crime scene and how the suspect moved through the crime scene. In this case, the crime scene extends from the North entrance of the park to the cemetery, and the SE end of the bridge. My next curiosity is how he would have looked after committing the murders. I think he had wet feet.

If this is the same suspect, I have to wonder why there's a 20 mile distance between abduction and bodies in 2012, and less than a mile between abduction and bodies in 2017. Got away with it, getting careless, doing it closer to home, giving more away by accident?

Transportation may have been a factor?

 

[ReggieHammond]

I'm catching up so my apologies if this was already answered but I was part of that original discussion and the very reason it interested me is that those time stamps on Snapchat would be of the time it was uploaded, not when it was taken. You can even take the picture with another app, or I could say, take a photo I from months ago, upload it to Snapchat, and the time on it would be the time it was uploaded, not the time it was taken.

I'm not sure it's ever been confirmed reception was an issue (but of course that also varies by provider. I know I've used Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, and a couple of prepaid options that are run over one of the above three companies networks and Sprint especially but also AT&T have issues in rural and wooded areas. Verizon seems to be the best in the Midwest. I once had bought a new phone right before going on an Amtrak ride from Detroit to Chicago- which means I even would've passed through Indiana probably not far from Delphi- anyway my new phone was on Verizon and the old one was on AT&T and both were still active so I used the train trip to compare service and Verizon pretty much never completely lost the signal while AT&T did a few times in western MI and Indiana). Heck, both AT&T and Sprint have given me massive issues in the western suburbs of Detroit which is more spread up and wooded than the other suburbs in that very densely populated area but that's a part of the state where a bunch of expressways come together (and that was what made losing signal so notable. I've gotten lost or turned off on the wrong highway because of signal drop). So hard to say or know for sure.

But definitely an issue worth considering. And it would even make sense. Somewhere (I think it may have been Gray Hughes in one of his videos but I'm unsure) estimated the time it would take to cross that bridge and it really wouldn't take that long. So either the girls stood around up there talking or whatever or it's totally conceivable then that they were already across before things uploaded. I'm unsure if that makes any real difference in the timeline but it could suggest then that the timeline is a bit different.

Lastly, one thing that I'm not sure of is that often, for sure with text messages and emails, while it will keep trying to post them for several minutes eventually if a signal isn't reached the phone will send you an error of some sorts or otherwise give up on trying. But I know Facebook, from experience, will send a post through if even after it didn't upload you open the app again even like ten minutes later or hours later as it happened to me and suddenly upload what it couldn't earlier. With texts you have to select to try again usually if it fails. Think I've seen it both ways with email. So I'm unsure of the specifics or if what I just said makes sense.

All of this said, and of course MOO, one thing I'm relatively sure of is that there's a very realistic possibility that those photos may have been taken at a time other than 2:07. Worth saying too that even if the signal was fine those photos themselves could've been taken sooner and only uploaded at that point precisely because the time stamp on Snapchat is the time of upload, not the time taken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My 17 year old daughter pointed out the snapchat issue you are talking about to me a couple of days ago. I said that the snapchat photo said 2:07. She quickly pointed out that the photo could have been taken anytime with the phone and then loaded to the snapchat app. whenever they felt like it. She has some pretty distinct theories about what happened to the girls, including the perp using their phone. but she's still formulating things in her mind. But the snapchat photo sent off alarm bells in her head right away.

Excellent thoughts/points by you both...but LE couldn’t have totally missed something so trivial. Right? :thinking:

 

[ImnoSherlock]

Suggest you contact ISP with this. Great idea!

I actually like the idea of a voluntary DNA database.You can't tell me that something like this couldn't get federally funded,I mean come on,how many times has the feds funded a project to find out how a cockroach could survive a nuclear blast or a Twinkie may be humanities last stand in the event of global thermonuclear warfare.I for one would welcome it.

 

[hilary1617]

Just a thought, but in reference to the "last seen" time stamp of 2:30 on the LE billboard still image of BG, that could indicate either when the video started or when it ended. It seems we collectively are assuming that this is when the filming of BG began, but does anyone have any LE quotes that would affirm this assumption? If not, It is possible the crime could have taken place as early as say, 2:10ish pm (shortly after snapchat photo of Abby).

 

[Bemused]

Meaning the thing's I wrote down didn't entirely make sense after I read over what I had wrote lol.. I was gonna launch another theory but then I found myself asking more questions in it than actually theorizing.Nothing against anyone else,I was knockin myself if anything.

A lot of differing opinions bring fresh ideas.

 

[otto]

Transportation may have been a factor?

I don't think the suspect walked, cycled, or hitch-hiked to the remote / secluded Indiana park where he murdered two girls. I think the suspect has a vehicle, like a truck, van, or SUV.

 

[kat913]

I don't think the suspect walked, cycled, or hitch-hiked to the remote / secluded Indiana park where he murdered two girls. I think the suspect has a vehicle, like a truck, van, or SUV.

I don't know...why would they have asked if someone saw a hitchhiker? Not a very common 1st idea I don't think? Usually would ask about vehicles...not hitchhikers? MOO

 

[Shiressleuth]

OK, SirWB..please go to YouTube and watch him doing a pretty good job of going up and down the incline of the hill taking reporters to the crime scene. I'd really like you to watch and tell me what your opinion is and that of everyone else reading as well. TIA

We all have our opinions and have seen the same videos, and articles you have. And we have told you our opinion. If LE don't recognise BG, however can it be expected that we can know any better? LE still have no suspects for this and are still working the tips and evidence AFAICS.

 

[Bemused]

Also Iowa crime scene was in July (they were found in December)....farm field held crops may have hidden them at that time (not barren as video looks)

The heat would've made it more apparent if people were regularly there, wouldn't it? Not to be too graphic, but I had a neighbor who was a coroner's investigator that loved to show photos and describe very graphic things just as you'd sit down for a BBQ or at cocktail parties.

 

[Bemused]

I don't know...why would they have asked if someone saw a hitchhiker? Not a very common 1st idea I don't think? Usually would ask about vehicles...not hitchhikers? MOO

Because the witnesses that day didn't see any strange cars or LE was able to match cars to people hiking? He was either on foot, hitchiked, hopped a freight train, or stole a car undetected. We don't know what witnesses may have observed and told investigators in interviews.

 

[ImnoSherlock]

Because the witnesses that day didn't see any strange cars or LE was able to match cars to people hiking? He was either on foot, hitchiked, hopped a freight train, or stole a car undetected. We don't know what witnesses may have observed and told investigators in interviews.

Or determined exactly how truthful the witnesses were.

 

[otto]

Just a thought, but in reference to the "last seen" time stamp of 2:30 on the LE billboard still image of BG, that could indicate either when the video started or when it ended. It seems we collectively are assuming that this is when the filming of BG began, but does anyone have any LE quotes that would affirm this assumption? If not, It is possible the crime could have taken place as early as say, 2:10ish pm (shortly after snapchat photo of Abby).

Maybe the audio clip is from 2:30. Maybe he came up from under the bridge and after walking a short distance, turned around and made friendly conversation with the girls - to obtain information about how their day was going, and then switched to "down the hill".

That would suggest that 23 minutes after the photo was taken of Abby on the tracks (and no suspect in sight), the suspect had successfully abducted them and was ordering them to go down the hill on the SE end of the bridge (towards the private driveway). They were found on the opposite side of the creek, and I'm pretty sure he didn't carry them there. They walked. I don't believe that a vehicle was parked on a private driveway during the abduction and murder of two girls on a Monday afternoon in February.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Just a thought, but in reference to the "last seen" time stamp of 2:30 on the LE billboard still image of BG, that could indicate either when the video started or when it ended. It seems we collectively are assuming that this is when the filming of BG began, but does anyone have any LE quotes that would affirm this assumption? If not, It is possible the crime could have taken place as early as say, 2:10ish pm (shortly after snapchat photo of Abby).

I personally don't think the video was very long before it just went to audio as L likely put it in her pocket to continue recording sound only . I think the last seen time stamp could be when that shift to audio only may have happened. And it is the audio that has captured the'criminal activity' be that abduction by vehicle or being taken 'down the hill' to the creek. MOO.