IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #51

[Bemused]

Right, not confirmed related, but it is quite a coincidence IMO always. I'm interested in timing as well, if he knew or didn't know they'd be there, and it seems to have had a short time of the crime being committed. Imo. But yes the 13 of anything is enough to creep me out.

Someone last thread a few days ago said ISP Sgt. John Perrine said there was no connection, IIRC.

 

[WebSight]

I believe someone showed in an earlier thread that from the public trail which leads to the NW end of the High Bridge, there is an unsanctioned trail that splits off and cuts through private property, including RL's. There was some speculation that maybe the girls had ventured in that direction before crossing the bridge. My only reservations about that theory are that: a)if that unsanctioned trail is there, it likely gets a bit of traffic, so RL would likely know that people occasionally cross his property, and b)if this is true, then, if we are to consider RL, he would likely need to have a personal issue with one or both of the girls in order to single them out as the target(s) of his rage. This is possible. IMO, although I also have other reservations about RL being involved, as he would then have had to potentially follow them to the bridge, then lead them "down the hill", and both of these seem to provide the necessary time/energy to de-escalate any rage he may have initially felt. The voice in the audio seems relatively calm, IMO, and the photos of BG look like a man walking with a purpose, but not a man consumed by illogical rage.(no sign he's yelling, shaking his head, flailing his arms, etc.) Now...we COULD assume that he marched them over to his property to scold or chastise, and that this lead to a raging confrontation, but why take them back to your property calmly if the whole idea was to get after them for being there in the first place? There is the possibility that RL is simply a diabolical predator, I suppose, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that from all we know thus far. I still won't rule him out until LE officially says "he had nothing to do with this crime", which I hope will come ~4/24, if they haven't stated otherwise by then.

I love this post! So many good points that should be considered no matter how you see RL's involvement.

 

[Patriot10]

Sorry everyone that I have not been here for a while-- but I fear the case may have gone cold. The person may be out of state or police may already have someone in custody. Or, the offender could be in jail/prison for an unrelated offense. Prayers to Abby and Libby and to their families.

 

[Lilowlet]

Someone last thread a few days ago said ISP Sgt. John Perrine said there was no connection, IIRC.

Thanks, it was strange coincidence. I thought I'd read it too. But didn't want to say wo being sure. Appreciate it.

 

[Yenyen3]

Sorry everyone that I have not been here for a while-- but I fear the case may have gone cold. The person may be out of state or police may already have someone in custody. Or, the offender could be in jail/prison for an unrelated offense. Prayers to Abby and Libby and to their families.

K.

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[LietKynes]

If "bob" for example did it and was in video or audio why on earth would LE let a killer walk around free for 8 and a half weeks.


You arrest the person and then work on the evidence and build the case.

You don't let somebody who has killed two young girls walk around scott free trying to build a case.


Could you imagine the out cry if "Bob" killed again and LE had let him walk around Scott free because they was "building" a case.

:moo:

SABBM

Well stated.

Cannot believe this case might go cold.
But it seems that way. Ugh.

I don't think LE or anyone outside of the perp (and anybody helping him) knows who committed this act.
Unbelievable.
My .02.

 

[Lilowlet]

Just wanted to take a moment and add a little positivity here.LE hasn't stated the case is cold, also they I assume still are checking tips. Which is encouraging IMO I think this will be solved. I do. There seems to be actual evidence, some cases have zero. No pictures no audio. No tips leads etc. Don't give up! PS I think your all great sleuthers.😀

 

[Lmustang89]

Some facts from early on indicate to me they knew this was bigger than two girls murdered in a small town in Indiana, but the SW's threw me for a loop. I'd wondered why they were going after locals, in the first week after the murders. I think what spooked LE is A) Whatever Libby recorded on her cell phone, and B) The brazen act of criminality which occurred, I think LE were shocked at how quickly it was over with.

MOO is they assumed it was a local. After all, even a lot of locals had no idea the bridge was there until the murders happened, which is common with old, out-of-the-way abandoned railroad and industrial properties. MOO is the perp was banking on this, and the fact that, as RL stated in an interview early on, nothing bad had ever happened around that bridge, before, and I believe him. The perp probably figured that LE would first go after locals, which put even further distance between him and the crime. Does he live within 60-100 miles? Maybe. He could live a lot further away from that, even.

As others have noted, we have not just one, but two victims. Not many abduction crimes perpetrated even by SK's involve two victims, and one must wonder if this is not the perp's first rodeo. I stumbled upon the Colonial Parkway murders case on here the other day, and man is it spooky, but the MO is somewhat similar. Two victims were murdered in each case, which certainly is rare.

In those cases, the perp went from sloppy in his methods, to more organized and slick in his methods. Hate to say it, but MOO is the perp in this case in Delphi is experienced, and that is what really got to LE after the first several days, as in they knew it had to be an outsider, and a targeted set of murders.

By "targeted" I mean this is a SK who stalks his prey and goes after vulnerable women, perhaps all of them juveniles. The perp could have researched the bridge and the area around it, online, for months, or perhaps he has a list of kill spots he's researched. Perp visits, could be wearing his regular street clothes or whatever, recons the area, sees how busy it seems. MOO is he knew Delphi schools had the day off, and that was one of several factors which led to the murders, and another big one would have been the weather.

We haven't had even a PC in several weeks, now. I think LE knows it's a SK, perhaps one that has struck several times beforehand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Parkway_Killer

 

[Colton]

channel 16 news just reported someone being hanged in Elkhart yesterday.Showed a wooded area but they will not release any details,even sex of victim.Might want to check it out.http://www.wndu.com/

Probably a suicide IMO. I worked as a Paramedic for awhile, sadly it's unbelievable how common suicides are. It's difficult to see those type of scenes. Makes me feel bad for LE if they did hear more of that cell phone recording and it recorded everything.

 

[FrostedGlass]

channel 16 news just reported someone being hanged in Elkhart yesterday.Showed a wooded area but they will not release any details,even sex of victim.Might want to check it out.http://www.wndu.com/

Thanks.

I'm from Elkhart County but moved down here in the Indy area recently. I follow the Elkhart Truth and WSBT on Twitter and I didn't see the death show up on either.

It seems a bit strange that they haven't released any info yet.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I don't think that's necessary if we are not stating a fact. If I was asked "are you sure BG is not RL?" I would say "No". If I was asked "Is it your opinion BG is not RL?" I would say "Yes". Both responses could be truthful and under oath if necessary. MOO.

Eta. Sorry forgot to add who I was quoting and replying to. This was in response to Bemused's post about answering under oath.

 

[Elley Mae]

And the ducks, gotta get the ducks in a row. jmo

If "bob" for example did it and was in video or audio why on earth would LE let a killer walk around free for 8 and a half weeks.


You arrest the person and then work on the evidence and build the case.

You don't let somebody who has killed two young girls walk around scott free trying to build a case.



Could you imagine the out cry if "Bob" killed again and LE had let him walk around Scott free because they was "building" a case.

:moo:

 

[Falling Down]

Hmmm, the Elkhart case. Wooded area of a county park, creek runs through it.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/...e+/@41.7036656,-86.0538427,407m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[Aropizt]

It would appear, Libby was a very astute and self aware person, taking the time and risk to record the crime. It would be logical to assume if she knew her attacker, she would have named him in the audio...IE RL what are you doing, RL why are you doing this ect..

I've always found it sort of weird, personally that multiple folks have assumed if she knew the attacker/ murderer she absolutely would've said his name. We don't even know how quickly things escalated or how much time she would've had to fight back. We've also discussed how in such a life or death situation our minds work very differently and it's really impossible to say what a person will do in such a situation unless/until they're in it. So I'm just not sure I believe not saying a name necessarily means he was a stranger.

But worth saying some people are better with names than others as well. That has little to do with general intelligence as far as I understand it, just differences in how people's brains work. Me, I'm awful with names and even have this perverse anxiety that I will call someone by the wrong name. I never forget a face, however. I almost never call anyone by their name in face to face interaction. If I start using your name it's actually a pretty good sign I'm really comfortable around you and know you very well. But otherwise, outside of family and close friends, I almost never use names. I don't think I would think to do so in a life and death type situation like the girls were in either. Unless the murderer was literally family or a close friend. Wouldn't mean I didn't know the person though. So no doubt my own experiences are influencing my opinion but I really do think that if she had said a name then absolutely we know she knew her killer. However, assuming she did not (and frankly we don't even know for a fact one way or the other), I don't think this is necessarily proof she did not know her attacker. Or what if it was Abby who knew him instead? We have no idea at all about how Abby reacted.

Obviously this is all MOO. You can look up research on remembering names and such. Some people are just much better at it than others. And maybe there's Studies or there even on crime and if people use the attackers name if they know them or not. But even then, there's no way to be absolutely sure she didn't know him. I still believe she might have though I agree, I absolutely doubt he was anyone very close to either girl (let's assume this likely would not have been considered such a complex case and might have been solved by now if he was). But they could've been acquainted with him in some way, or seen him around before at the trails or elsewhere. Maybe they've even been introduced and did know his name. Maybe they forgot it in the all the adrenaline and fear of the moment.


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[Hazelnutty]

Wow. Very interesting!

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[Bemused]

Why would LE say there was or wasn't a sexual assault on these girls? It seems that families with young daughters should be aware of that. Or, does anyone think it was to spare the families another grave indignity?

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LE isn't going to say anything publicly they do not have to, IMO. I posted something last week that said the families of Libby and Abby know the details. The public has no need to know and maybe it's partially so the jury pool is not contaminated. A trial and conviction is what the goal is here. Also MOO

 

[otto]

Hmmm, the Elkhart case. Wooded area of a county park, creek runs through it.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/...e+/@41.7036656,-86.0538427,407m/data=!3m1!1e3

I don't understand this reference?

 

[Elley Mae]

Probably a suicide IMO. I worked as a Paramedic for awhile, sadly it's unbelievable how common suicides are. It's difficult to see those type of scenes. Makes me feel bad for LE if they did hear more of that cell phone recording and it recorded everything.

Not sure about suicide seems the body had a shot and hanged.

"We saw they were rolling out the yellow crime scene tape. And I don't know if the body was male or female, I just know that it was mentioned the body looked like it had been shot," said Kocielko.
http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Death-investigation-in-Elkhart-County-419611223.html

 

[Shiressleuth]

The murders occurred in February 2017, nearly 3 years after those police reports. It doesn't seem likely to me there is a relationship to 3-year old crimes, IMO.

The point being made by Frosted was not that there was a relationship but that it was two clear examples of RL not being angry or confrontational at all when someone was burglarising his property and that he correctly reported the incidences to police. So it was apparently not in his nature to be angry or confrontational, as seemingly demonstrated by the examples provided, as you had requested.

 

[Bemused]

Thanks, it was strange coincidence. I thought I'd read it too. But didn't want to say wo being sure. Appreciate it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...onnected-iowa-slayings-cops-article-1.2993393

Authorities investigating the killings of two teenage girls in Indiana say they've contacted Iowa police about the unsolved 2012 killings there of two cousins but don't believe the crimes are connected

Indiana State Police Sgt. John Perrine says Indiana authorities have spoken to Iowa investigators about the abduction-killings of 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins.