IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

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By now, (or in progress) LE would have/is analyzing every keystroke from any device these kids used. If there is a trail, it will be revealed. Using anything online is like following the trail of a toddler with muddy feet in a house with white carpeting.

I agree.

And wrt the dark web, I think LE (particularly the FBI, Homeland Security, etc) is always eyeballing the dark web (if WE know kinda/sorta what goes on there it's easy to assume they actually know). Now, whether or not they have the capability to track down ALL isp's & locate specific individuals... I dunno. But, I'm sure they are at least "monitoring" what hell-might-be-abrewin. JMO
 
Ok My Darlings,

Time for bed.

Thread will open in the morning.

G'night,
Tricia
 
(long-winded post ahead, but I'll try to stay within ToS)

MOO is there's a possibility he was able to lurk, and maybe even lured them somehow. I'm leaning towards lurk on a SM site or multiple sites, MSM reports indicate Libby had multiple SM accounts. It's pure speculation on mine or others' parts, but it's perfectly plausible.

MOO is at the very least, the perp knew Delphi schools had the day off. Perp knew the area where he was going to do his misdeeds that day, perhaps had visited the area before. He lurks on SM, seeing who checks in to the trail/park/bridge area, while hiding near or at the spot where the girls were killed (pure speculation on my part, for all I know he was in a vehicle in the cemetery when the girls got to the trail head). Libby 'checks in' on one or more SM accounts, or at the very least (and this is a big one) the perp saw the first image she posted (the one from the NW end of the bridge), then the one of Abby which uploaded at 2:07PM.

Far as the perp taking photographs or video, folks here speculated early on that could have happened, after all, how many cases here at WS have we seen where perps take images of their victims? Not many, but there are quite a few cases of serial killers doing just that, going all the back to the 70's.

After this case hit the news, I researched cases where LE were frustrated by SM, and how often it's used these days in crimes. Some of the more popular sites are based at various places around the world, so it's very difficult for LE to get warrants and court orders to do searches of users of those sites. SnapChat is based in Canada. SnapChat is notorious for requiring very little information to become a member. Those two factors alone have made it difficult for LE in other countries to get information off of SnapChat servers, although SC's management have been more cooperative in recent years, after balking at allowing LE outside of Canada to have access to their information the first several years they were in business.

Switching gears, I keep going back to other cases which have been covered, in-depth, here at WS. The Israel Keyes case keeps popping into my head, as I follow these threads about the Delphi case. I've watched a few YouTube videos about him, and, as many here have noted, when interviewed he was calm and downright friendly with the investigators, at least to a certain point, while at the same time elusive about any details of murders he was involved in. He explained his deeds in a manner which someone might order coffee, cool as a cucumber. Yet Keyes, like all of these other freak killers, was a control freak of the worst order, but in his case he was able to keep it under control to some degree, living a double life.

Keyes admitted to using Google to search for victims, surveil the areas he would abduct people, etc. These killings were after the murders in the parks he'd done when he was younger, Keyes (like so many other serial killers) 'graduated' to more sophisticated crimes. It was never revealed how he was able to do this w/o being detected, Keyes started using his home computer for searches regarding his own killings only in the months previous to when he was arrested in Texas. He got sloppy, as they say, and he admitted as such. So the FBI had only 'x' number of months' worth of internet activity to go by, in their case against him, as he'd used methods of using the internet known only to him up to that point, and now he's dead.

So if this killer used SM, they might have been able to do it w/o anyone being able to attach an e-mail, IP address, etc., to them, specifically.

SM or no use of SM, either way, I'm working off the assumption this killer is much more sophisticated, and smarter, than a lot of folks first believed. I'm leaning towards SM, this killer was looking for a certain demographic to abduct, and perhaps was looking for two victims. How did he know there were two victims at the bridge, that day? The image uploaded at 2:07 PM to SC.revealed two people were making their way to the SE end of the bridge, probably both juveniles, with noone behind them.

In my mind, I see BG either A) At the final killing spot, either surveilling the bridge or doing that and checking a smart phone, or B) At the cemetery, at the back of it, in a vehicle. I don't know if the drive into the trailhead area is visible from there, but at any rate I see BG possibly at the cemetery, in a vehicle, checking SM.

JMO

Thank you so much for the reply! Awesome post!!!!
 
you must believe than that he stopped talking because LE had absolutely no suspicion? He stopped talking prior to the SW, and we know LE had some suspicion on the day of the search and likely the days ahead of the search.

What i said is those that are not guilty and where LE has raised zero suspicion typically answer questions. He does not need to be guilty to stop talking, but by doing it is probably a good indication that LE has asked him questions in connection to the murders that he does not want to answer.
He stopped talking because 1) that's his right 2) He had already got himself the PV by opening his mouth 3) His attorney prob told him to. No way is that an implication of guilt. 4) the non- co-operating was dropped by LE so that also indicates to me that he wasn't hiding anything.

If LE seriously thought he was holding back evidence he would have been charged with obstruction or withholding or whatever is the state equivalent . They also would have said "Optimism is high".

Also, how do you know that those not guilty typically answer questions? <modsnip>
 
Ok, I think by not talking indicates nothing of guilt. It's a smart thing to do.
Non cooperation does not equal not hiding anything. Everyone is entitled to their own theory without insults.
 
I have some evidence that one girl may have died on the 14th. One of the obituaries has that date.

Although imo she was killed on the 13th, as stated on the petition to seal the autopsy, I think TOD will reveal she died of her injuries, after midnight on the 13th and I believe that is one reason LE are so gutted and upset about this. It must be addressed that she could have possibly been saved and even helped id her killer imo.
 
I have some evidence that one girl may have died on the 14th. One of the obituaries has that date.

Although imo she was killed on the 13th, as stated on the petition to seal the autopsy, I think TOD will reveal she died of her injuries, after midnight on the 13th and I believe that is one reason LE are so gutted and upset about this. It must be addressed that she could have possibly been saved and even helped id her killer imo.
What's the evidence?
 
Ok, I think by not talking indicates nothing of guilt. It's a smart thing to do.
Non cooperation does not equal not hiding anything. Everyone is entitled to their own theory without insults.
I agree. Not talking can of course also indicate not knowing anything as well as being innocent or guilty. I hope you are not saying my opinion about a weak theory was an insult because I certainly do not think or mean that. If I think a theory is weak or wrong then I will opine that. Apologies if anyone thought I insulted anyone.
 
I had never heard much about Keyes, but Falling Down, your post made me read about him a bit. When the news about Abigail and Liberty hit, I went out and bought guard dog. Now, reading about Keyes, I want to go buy a guard tiger. So much evil.
 
On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana.


Both girls were killed/died on the 13th.
 
With the TV show last Thursday was anything new learned ?
 
I had never heard much about Keyes, but Falling Down, your post made me read about him a bit. When the news about Abigail and Liberty hit, I went out and bought guard dog. Now, reading about Keyes, I want to go buy a guard tiger. So much evil.

I see folks with their dogs when I'm hiking, especially women.

It just sucks that these two girls ended up being so vulnerable in a place people always felt safe.

Check out post #7, when you get a chance:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?220906-Possible-Sightings

If this isn't spooky:

"I noticed he was wearing tan shorts, a black t-shirt, black army type boots with black socks and was carrying a big, black backpack".

He was the type of killer who didn't have to kill necessarily on an exact date, but once the opportunity presents itself, they strike Very methodical, I've thought from early on in this case, as have other members, that the perp may have had a backpack stashed at the crime scene, with a kill kit of some sort. At the very least, BG appears to have a lot going on underneath the windbreaker type jacket, things he may have used to kill the girls.

Edit: I think I know why the Keyes case went unnoticed by many, the Jodi Arias case was all over the news, in early and maybe mid-2012, in fact CNN broadcast the entire trial, IIRC.

JMO
 
I have some evidence that one girl may have died on the 14th. One of the obituaries has that date.

Although imo she was killed on the 13th, as stated on the petition to seal the autopsy, I think TOD will reveal she died of her injuries, after midnight on the 13th and I believe that is one reason LE are so gutted and upset about this. It must be addressed that she could have possibly been saved and even helped id her killer imo.

I actually believe that the murder of two young girls would be gut-wrenching enough--add to that that they were simply out for a walk in the park together, in the middle of the day, in a town that almost never sees murder of any kind, and where everyone pretty much knows everyone else. I don't need to imagine there were any especially unusual or extra-horrific circumstances to shake them up this way. It certainly might be the case that there is something more horrible than just those facts, but those facts are sufficient, IMO.


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I have some evidence that one girl may have died on the 14th. One of the obituaries has that date.

Although imo she was killed on the 13th, as stated on the petition to seal the autopsy, I think TOD will reveal she died of her injuries, after midnight on the 13th and I believe that is one reason LE are so gutted and upset about this. It must be addressed that she could have possibly been saved and even helped id her killer imo.
IMO the state intends to establish the fact that both girls died on the 13th since that is the meaning of killed when applied to human life. The only terminology I am aware of which could be used differently would be to say that both girls were mortally wounded on the 13th which leaves open the date of death.
 
IMO the state intends to establish the fact that both girls died on the 13th since that is the meaning of killed when applied to human life. The only terminology I am aware of which could be used differently would be to say that both girls were mortally wounded on the 13th which leaves open the date of death.

Totally agree. But I'm afraid this has been argued six ways to Sunday, with the same intensity as hair vs hood, with no discernible indication of either side changing opinion. [emoji52]


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