IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #57

[Burnt Toast]

Yes it does .....
Now what can that be?
They are out in the woods.
What could he have left behind?

personal items, the murder weapon , foot prints, and of course DNA. It is pretty hard to commit a double homicide without leaving evidence behind.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Given the way the sunlight is hitting both of the in the pics, when his pic was taken he was coming from the barrier side. LG messaged someone that they were being followed, so he must have followed them in, walked past them and then doubled back, is that correct?

Mom24, do LE know that LG messaged someone? That would be very important if that were the case so how do you know that?

 

[Burnt Toast]

I also remember that in the initial early statements by LE (before press conference) ambiguity was expressed as to whether or not they were looking at a crime scene.

This leads me to wonder what scenarios, where two young innocent children were found deceased, would there be ambiguity as to whether or not a homicide had occurred.

I imagine the girls would've had to have been found clothed. Perhaps it looked like a potential drowning or hypothermia. Or as several others have suggested, a scenario I previously thought preposterous, hanging.

These comments are just speculation and I would never mean any disrespect to the girl's families or their memories


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LE never expressed any doubt if they were looking at a crime scene. What they said is they suspect foul play which is standard language.

 

[Alethea]

Does LE have a certain quota they can use when it comes to DNA testing? For instance can they send evidence or DNA away for testing as many times as they like for each case?

Each LE agency will have their own internal policies and procedures, but I'm sure they will test or re-test when they have good cause and the funds for it. Sometimes labs have a backlog and it takes a while to get results processed.

 

[Mom24]

Mom24, do LE know that LG messaged someone? That would be very important if that were the case so how do you know that?

I thought I read that somewhere. Let me see if I can find it.

All I'm finding is Police saying that LG started filming when she became concerned that they were being followed. I must have assumed it she messaged that to someone? But I could have sworn I read that in an article. For now I'll backtrack that to saying she was concerned she was being followed.
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...e/news-story/28908ec6b693b0460913a84d05b93c13

 

[Shiressleuth]

Who says they dont recognize him tips were called in yes?
I think le has had a lot of calls we just are not privy to it
Jmo

Because if they had, LE would know him too and would have arrested him and be saying "optimism is high". They would not still be wanting tips. IMO.

 

[SonnieM]

Given the way the sunlight is hitting both of the in the pics, when his pic was taken he was coming from the barrier side. LG messaged someone that they were being followed, so he must have followed them in, walked past them and then doubled back, is that correct?

When was it revealed that LG messaged someone? I must have missed that

 

[efhds]

I also agree. If I heard the voice taken out of context without knowing he was about to kill two people, I would never think there was anything unusual about the voice. I would say he sounded authoritative, determined with a purpose. He could be a tour guide directing his group where to walk.My impression is that he was coldly detached, his plan was in play in his mind's eye. Humans that commit these crimes are very different. There's no empathy or compassion. Only selfish determination to act out a predetermined scenario. IMO

I think you summed it up perfectly. The characteristics you mention point to a killer whose brain is wired differently to other human beings. How could you go home and eat a meal after doing something like that ? I suspect a lot of towns would have a potential BG somewhere in their midst. Maybe in the distant future a brain scan will help criminologists identify these people. Until then .....

 

[Dawning3]

…

Quoting from http://www.in.gov/isp/delphi.htm
↓↓↓
"Information can be reported anonymously; however, the Indiana State Police, the FBI, and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department have announced a reward for information leading to the arrest of the person or persons responsible for the homicides of Liberty German and Abigail Williams. The amount of the reward may be up to $216,165 depending upon the value of the information provided."

~…~…~
So... if one wishes to give perhaps "the tip of the century" in exchange for the reward... the reward can't be issued privately, keeping the tipster anonymous to the public and the perp?
I hope that's not the case.
But even so, if it actually does lead to the arrest, and the perp might eventually know who called it in, he (perp) would already be locked up, before he knew who gave LE the tip. (Correct?)

I've seen a couple of posts that were seemingly aiming to shame any potential tipsters who might collect the reward, to then donate it to the families or somesuch.
Frankly, if there is someone who knows, I don't care if s/he calls it in to do the right thing, or calls it in for (and keeps) the reward.
Just so that it is finally called in.

I don't like the idea of shaming the tipster either. What if turning in BG affects their own livelihood? Maybe his wife is a stay-at-home mom or his own mother lives with him? What if the tipster works for BG and loses his/her job? Those are just a few scenarios that I can think of where the person who collects the reward money would actually need it. Even if the person doesn't seem to be in desperate need of the money, who are we to judge?


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[Burnt Toast]

I believe the poster said locals are raising money for a reward.

thanks i missed that. the public isn't privy to the investigation so my guess is they will be asking for reward money until the day they arrest someone.

 

[sumzero]

well there were over a dozen LE and FBI officers there, and they spent over 12 hours. They had canines with them as well. They carried out "armloads" of things from his home as well as taking his vehicle away with evidence tape on the doors. LE made a much bigger deal with this search. the media presence was enormous and LE put themselves in front of the camera for many interviews spelling out why they were there.

Tells me they were being thorough, as you would hope. If something were to be found implicating RL, it would've been found. (RL doesn't strike me as being real clever or subtle.). Since then, LE's actions suggest that they don't believe RL is a double murderer: repeatedly insisting that he's not a suspect, repeatedly trying to dismiss rumors about RL's involvement, nothing to suggest they've found anything of value during their extensive search, and nothing to suggest that they haven't accounted for his whereabouts during the afternoon of the murders (though we do know LE discovered he'd been at the recycling center, resulting in a probation violation, and later having a beer, again resulting in a probation violation). In other words, RL has been subjected to scrutiny by a phalanx of LE agencies. At this point, I have to believe nothing was found because there is nothing to connect him to the murders.

 

[margarita25]

Does LE have a certain quota they can use when it comes to DNA testing? For instance can they send evidence or DNA away for testing as many times as they like for each case?

I've seen this vary as far as the type of the sample...things might be more advanced today as technology has progressed but I've seen in older cases where they had to be careful about choosing to run a particular sample because it was very small and testing it can consume the entire sample leaving them with nothing left to test again. So I've seen in older cases where they held off from running their only minute sample in hopes to run it when better technology comes available. Maybe that time is here now or not as I saw this on an old episode of Forensic Files, iirc.

 

[Dawning3]

I also agree. If I heard the voice taken out of context without knowing he was about to kill two people, I would never think there was anything unusual about the voice. I would say he sounded authoritative, determined with a purpose. He could be a tour guide directing his group where to walk.My impression is that he was coldly detached, his plan was in play in his mind's eye. Humans that commit these crimes are very different. There's no empathy or compassion. Only selfish determination to act out a predetermined scenario. IMO

"Coldly detached" is a perfect description.


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[Dawning3]

One possibility is that BG was pretending to be an official with CSX or the trail authorities, etc., and that he told the girls that children (or people generally) were prohibited from walking on the bridge. Hence "down the hill", because they supposedly weren't allowed to return via the bridge. But I don't know, he was so mean looking in that last photo that has come out, it is hard to imagine the girls wouldn't have freaked at being escorted across Deer Creek. But men with natural rapist tendencies probably often have a wiliness about them, same as to disarming defense emotions as to other things. And maybe they figured he would shoot them or whatever if they didn't obey.

This seems like a likely scenario.


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[Burnt Toast]

Tells me they were being thorough, as you would hope. If something were to be found implicating RL, it would've been found. (RL doesn't strike me as being real clever or subtle.). Since then, LE's actions suggest that they don't believe RL is a double murderer: repeatedly insisting that he's not a suspect, repeatedly trying to dismiss rumors about RL's involvement, nothing to suggest they've found anything of value during their extensive search, and nothing to suggest that they haven't accounted for his whereabouts during the afternoon of the murders (though we do know LE discovered he'd been at the recycling center, resulting in a probation violation, and later having a beer, again resulting in a probation violation). In other words, RL has been subjected to scrutiny by a phalanx of LE agencies. At this point, I have to believe nothing was found because there is nothing to connect him to the murders.

there were quite a few things seized that day and LE is still waiting on the results of the forensic testing. that suggests to me that they may have found something of "value" during their extensive search.

 

[Alethea]

I wouldn't read too much into LE presence executing a search warrant. I am an attorney and in a financial fraud case we once had 50 agents raid an office, seizing documents and carrying out huge boxes of evidence, mugging for the media and making statements about fair play. Charges were never filed and they quietly dropped the case. LE acts based on the information they have in front of them at the time - what may seem like a crucial lead can end up being a complete dud. Even as a defense lawyer I rarely fault LE for it - they are usually doing their jobs in good faith.

 

[sumzero]

LE is still waiting on the results of the forensic testing. that suggests to me that they may have found something of "value" during their extensive search.

Maybe you know something I don't know. But from what I've seen before, potential evidence in high profile cases usually gets fast tracked. I'm guessing that the testing, if completed, turned up nothing. Or, if not completed, was not fast tracked in the first place because there was no strong belief it might have value.

Regardless, LE conduct and public statements in recent weeks simply do not suggest they've zeroed in on any specific person. Think about all the man-hours spent on this case by different agencies. And yet, they're still at square one, it seems.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I wouldn't read too much into LE presence executing a search warrant. I am an attorney and in a financial fraud case we once had 50 agents raid an office, seizing documents and carrying out huge boxes of evidence, mugging for the media and making statements about fair play. Charges were never filed and they quietly dropped the case. LE acts based on the information they have in front of them at the time - what may seem like a crucial lead can end up being a complete dud. Even as a defense lawyer I rarely fault LE for it - they are usually doing their jobs in good faith.

i was more interested in what LE said, and not the number of them.

 

[margarita25]

Alright so it seems some ideas seem to come to me in the middle of the night when the thread is closed so I'll start freestylin and hope I can remember the posts I wanted to respond to/refer:

Thinking again about our Late Great Foxfire, he would be all over analyzing possible predatorial/organizational traits, characteristics, MO, etc, etc.. So, his loss here as far as input and insight feels like a gaping hole imo. So, as I'm thinking about "what would Foxfire say?" I thought last night maybe I/we could look through some more old posts of his in Lizzie and Lyric's threads, since the cases are so similar. I know we posted some posts of his in the very early days...of course Abby's and Libby's case is separate from Lizzie and Lyric's, and no connection has been determined between the 2 cases; L and L's killings could have been targeted, connected to family, etc, etc, we don't know because their case is unsolved too. What I'm saying is maybe Foxfire posted something else of value in their threads which could possibly be applied to our suspect(s) here even if not related...boy that was a ramble..

 

[Burnt Toast]

bumping for those that missed it.

LE is still waiting on forensic testing. this article is from yesterday

Investigators are awaiting evidence test results to come back from the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Viriginia.

http://fox59.com/2017/05/07/delphi-residents-reclaim-trail-where-girls-were-murdered/